 Upcoming books, Runner Havens' cities |
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 Nov 22 2005, 11:20 AM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,118  |
In a truly awesome display of foresight, possibly bordering on precognition, Shadowrun's line developers had been doing this for years before the internet boom and Amazon's rise to prominence! |
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Nov 22 2005, 11:36 AM
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#27
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
The english version won't? Oh my god, i'm thinking of badly written german setup, written by would-be-anarchists :S If the usual FanPro guys will write up Hamburg, it will become a messy setting. Propaply an anarchists heaven or something similar shitty. |
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Nov 22 2005, 11:42 AM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
The English book will contain Hamburg, too - as one of the four 2,000-words-each lesser city description. Which, as told in the German FP forum, is barely enough to introduce someone not familiar with the older AGS books to the city and would be completely dissatisfying to someone whos already knows Germany. Hence, the chapter will be expanded ( to the same size as Seattle and Hong Kong, I suppose). |
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Nov 22 2005, 11:47 AM
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#29
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Hoepfully they'll take another route and not the same as in B:ADL... I don't like this nice anarchist-style. It's too romantic/naive, it's unrealistic and it's poorly written. Wish hermit would still be around here. :D
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Nov 22 2005, 11:48 AM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
On various occasions FanPro D has talked about a new line of books called "Hot Spots" - supposedly sourcebooks detailing a single city and/or specific local region not to the extend of the Seattle Sourcebook but with enough information to grasp the local flavor and use it as a campaign setting.
Possible Hot Spots for Germany named so far are Frankfurt and Munich. Does anybody have more information about this? It doesn't seem to a project of only the German crew so which other Hot Spots around the world are planned? |
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Nov 22 2005, 12:38 PM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 276 Joined: 6-August 02 From: Kiel, Germany Member No.: 3,071 |
They announced (german only) Jotspot books of Munich ("6-sells") and Sox (dunno the name) check my page when its back up again :-) its written there 3rd news from the top or something ;-)
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Nov 22 2005, 02:41 PM
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#32
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
The game industry truly did pioneer this technique, with Amazon "borrowed" without so much as a free license to use their one-click patent! |
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Nov 22 2005, 02:59 PM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX CAS Member No.: 1,097 |
I really wish Fanpro wouldn't pull that regional favortism bullshit. I want that "expanded" hamburg material, too. Why the hell should I be forced to get a german copy just to get it?
They should give us all the same material in both languages. |
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Nov 22 2005, 03:03 PM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 112 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,896 |
That is very frustrating. Any chance they'll ever change and be nice to those of us who can't read German?
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Nov 22 2005, 03:04 PM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 22-November 05 From: Omaha, western UCAS Member No.: 7,993 |
Fact is, though, the language barrier isn't as permeable as all that, even for a company like FanPro which got its start doing German editions. Translation takes time, and teams of talented writers. It's one thing to write game text, being consistent, creative, and interesting. It's another to take someone else's in another language, translate it, and KEEP it consistent, creative, and interesting.
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Nov 22 2005, 03:58 PM
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#36
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
They seem to be able to manage to translate all of the English books into German (however poorly), yet can't manage to do the same with even a quarter of the German material.
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Nov 22 2005, 04:12 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 265 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bangkok (sometimes Paris) Member No.: 332 |
To set the record straight (as best as it can be with the info I have), it was decided since the beginning to have only 2 major cities in the book, plus 3 to 5 additional cities covered in less details. If there is an expanded Hamburg chapter in the German translation of that book, it's because Fanpro D wanted it that way, in their long tradition to provide additional material (generally AGS-oriented) in their SR translations. It's not Rob who decided to "cut" Hamburg long-version out of Runner Havens to keep it for the German audience only.
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Nov 22 2005, 04:58 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX CAS Member No.: 1,097 |
Then we need a Fanpro E or something similiar to provide us with bonus material. Besides, what I said earlier wasn't an attack on Rob.
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Nov 22 2005, 05:18 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
I concur on the subject of wanting Hamburg. Just because I live in Michigan doesn't mean I dislike Germany!
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Nov 22 2005, 05:18 PM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
In FanPro's eyes (most of) the German stuff is considered not interesting enough for players outside of Germany so it's kept out of the English books. They learned a lesson from the weak sales of the Germany Sourcebook (produced over ten years ago but still in stock AFAIK). But they keep the AGS as their "pet setting" (although it does face quite some critizism in Germany) and include information where it fits. (Plus, the German bonus material is meant as a reason to buy the German books instead of the English ones and to somewhat apologize for weak translations, editing errors, delays, etc. It boils down to: You want the book quickly and for a lower price? English. You're willing to wait some months and pay a bit more but get additional stuff? German.) |
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Nov 22 2005, 10:31 PM
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#41
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
My biggest concern is that there will be canon setting info out there which the many people in the larger, original consumer base for SR cannot read, and it sometimes ends up being a big deal setting thing like, oh, say... Schockwellen.
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Nov 23 2005, 12:19 AM
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#42
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Let's make a few things clear then:
- Runner Havens is the first of a new series of "themed" location books focused not on countries but on major sprawls. Each of these books - for which the tentative themes of Corp Zones, Feral Cities and Mystic Places were mentioned at GenCon - will feature two distinct core settings. These core settings will be visited in some detail, though probably not to the degree a Seattle SB did. The two core settings are followed by 4-5 other similar sprawls treated in much lesser detail, but included for variety and to expand playing possibilities. These are to be addressed in necessarily less detail and writeups will focus on their unique character and intrigues, showcasing the diversity of settings that can potentially fall under the single heading "runner haven". - For Runner Havens the core settings chosen were Seattle and Hong Kong. The backup settings picked were Cape Town, Caracas, Hamburg and Istanbul. These were picked because they profile a wide spectrum of play styles, atmosphere and local plots. - Following the decision to include Hamburg in the line up of Runner Havens, FanPro D decided to expand the relevant section to a full chapter for the German edition of the book, thus providing German fans with a core "Runner Haven" of their own. This add-on is something FanPro D has been doing for most of SR3 releases and specifically targets the German market. However, as has been the case in recent projects, FanPro D has developed the material in tandem with the English version of Runner Havens, and in fact the person in charge of both the shorter profile in the English version and coordinating the expanded German version is the same. - It is our intent to thread future plots into the core settings, and also promote higher mobility between the various core locations. This is not to say that the remaining settings won't be visited and touched upon, but that the focus will be the core ones. - If people really want to see the full German chapter, I'm sure they won't mind taking the time to mail FanPro US and saying as much. While in the past there have been practical limitations and commercial viability issues to translating such material, recent developments may open up new options. Take the time to mail FanPro and you might be surprised-after all we're not talking about a 500+ page paperback. - Most German-language add-ons represent German specific material which, though potentially interesting to the hardcore collector, has never been particularly relevant to the US fanbase - in fact, as German DSFers will likely admit a lot of it has been over-the-top in the past. This, coupled with the lackluster interest in the Germany SB, and more to the point the costs of translating potentially commercially unviable material make publication of German material (which is also normally developed after the English book is published) a risk FanPro US hasn't considered worth it. Consider also, that back in the day, FASA never thought of Proteus as a big enough "setting deal" to include the material introduced by FanPro D over a handful of sourcebooks and one full campaign. It was never featured in a major metaplot in US material, was never been detailed in depth, was purposefully kept a mystery. It was one of dozens of unrefined plots in American canon, whereas in Germany it had been throughly detailed. When Shockwaves came round FanPro US was faced with the decision of retroactively unnecessarily forcing 8 years of background material down the US fan's throat and introduce a campaign that played out almost entirely in European sprawls, knowing that for all the flash and bang of Shockwaves to the average runner Proteus doesn't change one bit. - That being said, German material that hasn't required elaborate retoractive explanations and major recaps has appeared in American canon (notably the changes to the "German" greats in DotSW, several new developments in the AGS in SoE, and groups in SOTA64 and Loose Alliances). Even "shockwaves" from the German campaign and setting material have been noted in US products. Such cooperation will continue for the foreseeable future as American and German developers and freelancers work hand in hand on upcoming books. |
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Nov 23 2005, 03:32 AM
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#43
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
But that explanation doesn't cover releases like Shockwaves, which include world-changing events that only trickle down as an afterthought to the English (only) speaking Shadowrun consumer. It doesn't stop there. Take the new German-only World Almanac (or whatever it's called) as another example. Why is this general-purpose book being released only in German? What makes FanPro think that English speaking people wouldn't pay top dollar for this kind of book. Especially if they weren't fortunate enough to have played the game and collected all the books from the beginning in 1989. It might be true that English speaking people don't really care for a fleshed-out Hamburg, but even then the problem is that the German-only releases aren't only limited to German-specific material. I have every Shadowrun book ever released in English, and kind of resent the fact that I am still barred from some details of canon due to locale and/or language barriers. |
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Nov 23 2005, 06:35 AM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
It does seem a bit...off...to me. I mean, we're all fans of Shadowrun. We all love it. Why can't we all be playing in the same Shadowrun world? Why do Germans have to have their German SR stuff, and everyone else have their English SR stuff? Doesn't make sense, nosirree. Not at all. |
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Nov 23 2005, 06:58 AM
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#45
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
that would be neat if they acutally followed through on that.any conjecture on the chance of that acutally happening? |
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Nov 23 2005, 07:09 AM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover Member No.: 7,624 |
Wasn't there a France sourcebook published only in french? Most of the very detailed background for the ADL isn't very interesting for readers from other countries. In fact most of it isn't interesting even for me. In my opinion a lot of the material is not far from being absolutely unbelievable. I nearly died a terrible death from laughing, when I read that the Bundestag is now situated at the island Wilhelmsstein in the middle of the Steinhuder Meer. The Steinhuder Meer is a lake. It is not very large. The Wilhelmsstein is a very small artificial island in the middle of it. There is a small castle on it. But the Reichstag in Berlin covers an area much larger than the island. And the stuff above is a good example for the Germany-only background in general. |
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Nov 23 2005, 08:09 AM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
Synner explained it quite well one post above yours.
As I tried to explain in the 6. Welt thread, that book was written by German authors for German fans. I don't doubt that much of it could be translated to English without problems but there is German-specific material (publication history, translation problems, background differences, stuff from German conventions) that would IMHO have to be either rewritten or cut entirely. So, as I said before - spread the word about this book. Start a petition to show Rob there're enough potential buyers worth doing a translation. I don't know the chances of success but if you really want this book you should try. (Different solution: Learn German - not that hard for someone speaking English.) |
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Nov 23 2005, 08:11 AM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
Local sourcebooks (with more or less differences to English canon) were produced in - France - Germany - Hungary - Japan |
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Nov 23 2005, 11:45 AM
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#49
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Note that to complicate matters further, no FanPro D material (or indeed any of international licensees) prior to the FanPro acquisition of the SR license is considered canon by FASA (and as we learned the hard way in SoE quite a few things are unique and incompatible with American canon). DidS2 still suffers somewhat from this problem (Lofwyr fought Nachtwho to the death over Frankfurt and why? Proteus owns a chunk of Berlin? King who is missing?) - but all material thereafter has been cross-developed to one point or another with American material - and in fact several German freelancers have regularly contributed to American releases starting with DotSW.
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Nov 23 2005, 11:55 AM
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#50
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
That's why i'm for a complete overhaul of the german setting. |
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