 Setting, What's going on? |
  |
 Dec 9 2005, 08:43 PM
Post
#26
|
|
|
Shadowrun Setting Nerd  Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473  |
I'm leaning towards c) The writers didn't even bother to look at a map and have no idea what they're talking about.
There's a whole thread on this nonsensical crap. |
 |
 
|
|
Dec 9 2005, 08:44 PM
Post
#27
|
|||
|
Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
California is suffering severely from MAS: Multiple Author Syndrome. Los Angeles, according to canon, is currently: [*] In the California Free State, where it is the world headquarters of one of the largest corporations on the planet, the Califnornia based media giant Horizon. [*] In the Pueblo Corporate Council, after having been successfully annexed by PCC forces without much effort or hubub. [*] An anarchist playground controlled and owned by no nations at all, because it was so financially unimportant that no country really wanted to deal with it. ...all at the same time. Keep in mind that the current listed population of the PCC after supposedly conquering LA is only about half the population of Los Angeles all by itself. And that's just the writeup of the politics which is so mixed up and twisted that it meets itself going through revolving doors. No, the worst part is the "geology" - that's so bad that we have to put quotes around it. See, apparently Earthquakes (the natural disaster that California is most prepared for) somehow turned LA into an island chain. This despite the fact that LA is actually a big bowl-shaped valley surrounded by mountains. The map shows an area submerged under water that not only includes regions that are over a kilometer above sea level, but which in total cover tens of thousands of square kilometers. The amount of earth moved to create that kind of submersion would be able to fit about three Chicxulub craters (the crater in the Yucatan whose creation destroyed 70% of all life on Earth some 65 million years ago). The geologic events required to generate that kind of structural change from earthquakes would result in tsunamis that would have devastated all coastal regions of the Pacific - as well as tremors that would have been destructive as far away as Europe. We're talking "The Earth got hit with a meteor the size of Texas" sort of thing. Which would be fine, but nowhere else is the world described as having been destroyed by a thermonuclear holocaust caused by geologic destruction. -Frank |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 9 2005, 09:02 PM
Post
#28
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-April 05 From: France Member No.: 7,343 |
TGCM ?
- Ta Gueule, C'est Magique ! - Shut Up, It's Magic (so don't try to understand) A good principle to use in earthdawn ... |
|
|
|
|
Dec 9 2005, 11:52 PM
Post
#29
|
|||
|
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Yeah, but that's Ghost Dance-level magic. The city of L.A. is only about 2 million people. The problem also stems from the fact that the authors of the CFS book, as well as being biased towards certain aspects of the state, seem to have never left the UCLA campus and seemed to think that everything that people currently think of as "Los Angeles" is in one city, which it most certainly is not. The state allowed it to become a corp-run Free City, but the "city" is actually the majority of, but not all of, the Los Angeles Metropolitan Statistical Area, which is almost all of Los Angeles County, Orange County, and the populated (western) parts of San Bernadino county as well as parts of Ventura and down into Riverside counties all the way to the San Diego MSA (which is part of the explanation for the metroplexes merging in Demolition Man, BTW). The L.A. MSA has a current population of approximately 17 million people, second only (in the US) to the NYC MSA which is 23 million people. To their credit, when the authors of CFS listed the population of the City of Los Angeles as 2 million, they were reasonably close. The problem is that the Free City of Los Angeles in SR is a sprawl of nearly 20 million people, which is more than (and this assumes a lot) the entire population of the PCC were in based on today's population figures and is around 12 million, which is apparently what the PCC's population was pre-Year of the Comet back in SR1 in the NAN book. To their embarassment and much chargrin, the heart of the MSA is now its own city, which is swell (it was retconned in Shadows of North America to mention that the Free City was made up of the populous parts of L.A. and Orange counties) except that you have this sprawling city (when you can't see the edge of a sprawl from an airplane, you know it's pretty goddamn huge) with more people than the country which invades and annexes it. It is like Canada invading and annexing the United States militarily. After the PCC annexes Ute and more of California (so it now pushes right up into the central valley) it would now be like Canada adding Mexico to its empire. All of this can be "fixed" if you hold a run in the area through various workarounds which need not be discussed here. But going back to the crux of Frank's post, the earthquake which submerged most of Los Angeles county and created an island in the heart of the City of L.A. is geologically impossible without wreaking massive destruction across the Pacific Rim. Moreover, the waters don't "recede in a couple of years" or whatever crap was added. If they flooded into the basin, the water will remain until it is pumped out like in New Orleans for the sub-sea level areas, or would have receded immediately afterwards like tsunamis do. Water can't just float in mid-air. It's crap, and it was going to be the only major thing I was going to houserule in spite of being a canon-whore, but then I read System Failure and ... Well, that's not for here. Thread link, and Even longer, more detailed thread I also used to have a .sig quoting Eyeless Blond from that second thread which sums it all up nicely:
|
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 10 2005, 12:46 AM
Post
#30
|
|||
|
Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
What will you change of SF? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 10 2005, 12:47 AM
Post
#31
|
|||
|
Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Yeah, but they have a much higher magic level then. And even at the high-maigc ED-times had a similar impact on the world take place. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 10 2005, 04:25 AM
Post
#32
|
|||||
|
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Pretty much everything that happens after the Crash, especially the NR coup and President Colloton. It's like Oliver North running for President in 1988 and winning. I'm very disappointed in Fastjack's tone when he describes that part of the timeline in SR4, btw. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Dec 10 2005, 10:30 AM
Post
#33
|
|
|
Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
I enjoyed the idea of a military coup in UCAS. What's so bad about it? Escpecially when the New Revolution may be backed up by Ares and some other corps?
The history chapter of SR4 didn't have any sentences starting with "note,...", so i'm fine with it. :D |
|
|
|
|
Dec 10 2005, 05:26 PM
Post
#34
|
|
|
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Type "Colloton" and "SL James" into search (look for individual posts) and know that what I've said is a fraction of what pisses me off about it. If you have any doubts, someone will probably come alone later and explain how much I am pissed off with how pathetically inept the coup and pretty much all of the political machinations were in SR4 and SF.
But to put it simply (because I am too busy running the f-ing coup right now from a dozen POVs): It's not about the coup; it's about the fact that it was so poorly written. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 10 2005, 07:55 PM
Post
#35
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
OK, I did the search you asked for. In August you were happy that Colloton was president. And in the meantime, your primary concern seemed to be that you thought the description of who was acting president and when during the communications blackout was confusing.
What made you decide that you didn't like Colloton as president? I haven't been running in the UCAS since 2nd edition, so it never made much difference to me whether the UCAS had a dragon or a corporate sympathizer as commander in chief. -Frank |
|
|
|
|
Dec 10 2005, 09:00 PM
Post
#36
|
|
|
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
How did this post not answer your question?
It's not about her, dammit. At this point, I don't care who it is. It's... fuck it. I'm not going to sit here and do this. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 11 2005, 06:57 AM
Post
#37
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
I'm still trying to figure out how they picked some of the boundaries between countries that they did. Sure some follow natural boundaries, latitude, or logitude lines, but many don't seem to have any logic what so ever.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 11 2005, 07:43 AM
Post
#38
|
|
|
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
hahaha
Many of them are or were (PCC/Ute border, Seattle/Salish) highways/interstates, which is just... Yeah. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 12 2005, 07:01 AM
Post
#39
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 504 Joined: 8-November 05 From: North Vancouver, BC Member No.: 7,936 |
Okay, I have a question about the coup. The sr4 book said they failed, but everyone on the boards says that they succeeded? Did they, and my book has a misprint, or is there something in SF that explains this (I don't have a copy yet)?
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 12 2005, 07:03 AM
Post
#40
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover Member No.: 7,624 |
Well, the coup itself failed. Technically. But it was planned to fail. You have to read between the lines.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 12 2005, 07:29 AM
Post
#41
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 504 Joined: 8-November 05 From: North Vancouver, BC Member No.: 7,936 |
Damn it, now I need SF, damn, SR books are like an addiction.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 12 2005, 07:41 AM
Post
#42
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover Member No.: 7,624 |
Fanpro's Sales Department will love to hear that.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 12 2005, 04:58 PM
Post
#43
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
Wow... LA is an island?
I've always loved Canon, but I might have to go off canon. What happened to Saito, by the way? Did he just mysteriously die like Art and Cross? |
|
|
|
|
Dec 12 2005, 06:07 PM
Post
#44
|
|||||
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
As it is briefly described old LA is not an island, but the new one is. The [NA scale] map appears to show the Rolling Hills and a few other highpoints as islands around what is now the center of LA, and LA is marked on that map as now on the ridge north of the current LA. However i'd expect future canon "clarification" of Fastjack's offhand comment about LA and the crude detail of the map.
Details are not given, just that he was basically deadweight that was cut loose due to shifting political winds. Do a 90-day Search for Saito, there is more discussion/speculation on it. Oh, and Art's death wasn't that mysterious (see SF). Cross though is a one sentence summary blurb. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Dec 12 2005, 06:19 PM
Post
#45
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
There is very little mysterious about the deaths of Art and Cross. One was Thor shot by the Corporate Court and the other's plane crashed enroute to San Francisco.
Contrary to what has been said above by the time the CC had stood down from high alert after Valhalla fell and it learned of Winternight's true plans only after the Jormungand had been launched (by which time Cross could already have been in the air for hours) - the only thing that might be considered vaguely "mysterious" is what he was enroute to San Francisco to do. His plane crash gets considerably more than a one sentence sumary and is covered in the Aftermath section as is Ares reaction to his disappearance. What happened to Saito remains unknown except that he's MIA. His network was badly hit in Operation Jormungand (see WN adventure seed) and then the Mjolnir nuke though... |
|
|
|
|
Dec 12 2005, 06:33 PM
Post
#46
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 12-December 05 Member No.: 8,066 |
Hey SL James, not that you need any more ammo for your attack on SR4 Cali, but here are three more points to consider.
1. San Diego - Downtown San Diego is right off the water, so is the airport. Most of it will be gone. There are hills and such but a lot of canyons as well. 2. Take a look right above (North) of the Gulf of Mexico. Go in a little and you have the Salton Sea, the second lowest point in the state. We are talking about a region that is about 200 feet below sea level. And yet, it is dry. Maybe the Azzies built up the burm between the Gulf and the Sea? :P 3. As interesting as it is to see what happened to LA, what about the Salinas River Valley? This is the submerged land south of Monterey. That is some good farm land in the northern part (not sure of the southern). Anyway, thought I would add fuel to flames that we can hopefully us to remake Cali into something more logical ("Sorry there was a fingerprint on the transfer that we used to make the map. It is all better now."). |
|
|
|
|
Dec 12 2005, 06:46 PM
Post
#47
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
The Cali map gets real wacky on the south end. Though it's hard to tell exactly what is going on there because of scale, the farther inland stuff is really weird. I think they meant San Diego as the same deal as LA, the higher land off to the side is now marked as being the city because downtown by the coast is no longer land. In any event the subsidence was not entirely even, perhaps even an inland syncline.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 12 2005, 08:43 PM
Post
#48
|
|
|
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Something happened to Saito between 2065 and 2070, but he's still around in Aftershocks.
Thanks, mouser, but there's really nothing to make my impression any lower of Fanpro because of it. It's like kicking a corpse. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 13 2005, 07:37 PM
Post
#49
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
I'm going to have to take a look at SF, so far it sounds... Not Good.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 13 2005, 08:59 PM
Post
#50
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,067 |
SF is the best Shadowrun book I've read in years... Hands down. And I just want to mention one thing before I set up to enter the argument:
Which is what happened on the day of Crash 2.0, wouldn't you say? Lesse. 1) The tectonic nukes were contained, 2nd (reported) time in history this has happened. 2) Thousands, if not millions, of metahuman souls were ripped from their bodies. That would be like creating a worldwide background count, if the #'s weren't spread so thin. 3) As far as I can decipher, the Resonance and dissonance are both magical in nature, almost as if they come from the metaplanes in some weird, twisted way (belief in the matrix = faith = channeled mental ability to manipulate those things you interact with = magic). It might be a stretch, but damnit if it's not how I'm seeing things. Well, the single greatest expressions of Resonance and Dissonance were on that day, in the center of one of the greatest collections of human souls (projected) ever. That's a lot of mojo. Add to that Jorgumand, if it was fueled by dissonance echoes, probably carried that to much more people than ever before, exposing them to "metamagic" of a sort. 4) The EMP nukes were twisted, manipulated, and subverted in an exceedingly massive way, enough to change how the actual atoms inside would react when giving off an energy release. Molecular-level magics are potent already, this was probably off the scale. So. In the span of exactly 1 hour, you have all this magic being set off, channeled, inhibited, released, and spread through the entirety of metahumanity, save for one forward-thinking dragon. I don't know about you, but I think that would frag up the world just a tad, no? I'm not saying it makes you able to write off what happened in CalFree. I am saying that stranger stuff has happened. Personally, I can visualize the chain reactions caused by that release of sheer energy and emotion doing a -lot- more damage to the world than just shifting around the mountains of Southern California. And I think that's what the writers have in mind too. After all, I don't think SF said that all the tectonic plate nukes were found, did it? Anyways. Blame the writers, whatever, perhaps I'm a fanboy. But SF was unlike anything that had been seen in Shadowrun, both for scale and visibility to the average schmo. It was the apocolypse of Shadowrun, its "time of Judgement," if you will. Only SR did what I hoped White Wolf would -- they are going to show what the world is like after the apocalypse.. Or, at least, after the first heralds start showing up. Edited because I can't remember if Mjolnir were the tectonic or the EMP nukes. Probably a few other inconsistancies in there like that... Read the message not the details. ;) |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 10th December 2025 - 09:51 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.