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> Notoriety and street Cred, Did you hear about????
GingerbreadMan
post Apr 18 2006, 06:35 PM
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Is everyone playing Notoriety and Street Cred via the book rules? I love the idea but it’s quite a double edged sword. Too much of either and no Johnson in their right mind will hire you, but you can use street cred to buy off notoriety.

My question pertains mainly to the situation/social modifiers. With a fairly experienced group of characters (some devious, bastards) I’ve managed 9 street cred and 4 notoriety. Do I buy off the notoriety at the sacrifice of my street cred? How long until Johnson stops calling because kids discuss me at the dinner table?

What do you think? Any cool house rules or suggestions?
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James McMurray
post Apr 18 2006, 06:40 PM
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I dno't like the idea that you can buy off notoriety by losing street cred. How does becoming a better runner by not doing the things that give you notoriety make you less well known? "Sorry guys, you never heard of me, and I certainly never did those things you know I did."

If you want to reset your street reputation, start running again under a new identity or change it over time with different behavior.
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Azralon
post Apr 18 2006, 06:42 PM
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We play by the RAW's reputation rules in all ways except we don't award Notoriety for Negative Qualities. The forums have discussed this previously, but the quick reason for the exclusion is that it can make a (literally) gimped character have an unreasonable bonus to Intimidate.

When your Public Awareness reaches 3, you've started to get "high profile" enough to where the cops (et alia) have files on you. At this point you had better be prepared for a lifestyle change. So, our current team's philosophy on it is "security through obscurity." Whenever our PA is about to hit 3, taking a -2 to Street Cred in exchange for -1 to Notoriety will knock it back down to comfortably anonymous levels.

I interpret the SC/N bleed off as a combination of laying low and spreading constructive disinformation about ourselves. The more red herrings and blind alleys we give investigators (both legit and shady), the less likely they are to continue effective tracking.

Sure, your reputation gets fuzzier and people are less likely to trust anything they've heard about you; but that can be a good thing.

I should add that some runners would be okay with a high PA. If you're so uber that you're basically a celebrity and you can handle that sort of lifestyle, then knock yourself out. I personally haven't seen it done successfully yet.
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Piecemeal
post Apr 18 2006, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE
I interpret the SC/N bleed off as a combination of laying low and spreading constructive disinformation about ourselves. The more red herrings and blind alleys we give investigators (both legit and shady), the less likely they are to continue effective tracking.

Sure, your reputation gets fuzzier and people are less likely to trust anything they've heard about you; but that can be a good thing.


welcome to the right answer. last i checked, it wasnt entitled "Smack in the middle of the Limelight Run".
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blakkie
post Apr 18 2006, 08:39 PM
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BTW if in the future you do manage to keep Notoriety gains below 50% of Street Cred keep in mind that you can buy your Notoriety into the negatives. The math and IC translation of a negative Notoriety was covered in a thread several months back. Here is the start point of that part of the discussion, from about 1 month after SR4 came out at GenCon.
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emo samurai
post Apr 18 2006, 08:42 PM
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Fake your own deaths. With anthroforms, illusion spells, and easy looting of surgical clinics for tissue to leave around, this has never been easier.
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Azralon
post Apr 18 2006, 09:06 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
BTW if in the future you do manage to keep Notoriety gains below 50% of Street Cred keep in mind that you can buy your Notoriety into the negatives.

You say that as if it were explicitly in the rules.
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James McMurray
post Apr 18 2006, 09:09 PM
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As far as I can remember, there's no rule for having any rating at negatives.
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Azralon
post Apr 18 2006, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (James McMurray @ Apr 18 2006, 05:09 PM)
As far as I can remember, there's no rule for having any rating at negatives.

Yep, that was my point in that old thread too.

As always, feel free to house-rule (or house-interpret) however you like.
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blakkie
post Apr 18 2006, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (Azralon)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Apr 18 2006, 04:39 PM)
BTW if in the future you do manage to keep Notoriety gains below 50% of Street Cred keep in mind that you can buy your Notoriety into the negatives.

You say that as if it were explicitly in the rules.

I say that as though:

- it doesn't say you can't
- it explains the existence of an otherwise meaningless minimum Awareness of 0
- acknowledging the existance of the negative Notoriety clears up the problem of a really good runner being driven to go out and intentionally "botch" jobs
- as written a character starting with only the Blandness Quality has a negative Notoriety

You can subtact one from your Notoriety for every for ever 2 points of Street Cred you spend. No where is there a zero Notoriety limit on this. No more than it imposes any given maximum limit (although it does make some things tougher the higher you go higher).

Sorry if you don't feel comfortable with it because they didn't drag it up and smack you over the head with it. Just like a negative acceleration and negative velocity makes sense as the result from a physics equation, negative Notoriety allows the rules to make sense.
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blakkie
post Apr 18 2006, 09:24 PM
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QUOTE (James McMurray @ Apr 18 2006, 03:09 PM)
As far as I can remember, there's no rule for having any rating at negatives.

Read the link. The rule is there, they just don't actually use the words "negative Notoriety" anywhere.
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Azralon
post Apr 18 2006, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE (blakkie)
Sorry if you don't feel comfortable with it because they didn't drag it up and smack you over the head with it.

I would like to make you and your oft-demonstrated "logic of convenience" comfortable with this 2x4.

Seriously, Blakkie, the existence or nonexistence of negative Notoriety cannot be proven nor disproven until it's delineated in an official FAQ or similiar. Accept that, continue to play as if it exists if you wish, but don't go preaching it as if it were listed in the index.
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James McMurray
post Apr 18 2006, 09:33 PM
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Am I missing something or is 0 Awareness your only reason for believing it's possible? I didn't read all 4 pages and would rather not. I'm also not looking to argue the point, just wanting to make sure I understand all your points.
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emo samurai
post Apr 18 2006, 09:36 PM
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How the fuck would negative notoriety work in real life? Would some leprechaun materialize and smack you over the head with a forgetfulness hammer every time you tried to remember something bad about the character?
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blakkie
post Apr 18 2006, 09:37 PM
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QUOTE (Azralon @ Apr 18 2006, 03:31 PM)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Apr 18 2006, 05:23 PM)
Sorry if you don't feel comfortable with it because they didn't drag it up and smack you over the head with it.

I would like to make you and your oft-demonstrated "logic of convenience" comfortable with this 2x4.

Seriously, Blakkie, the existence or nonexistence of negative Notoriety cannot be proven nor disproven until it's delineated in an official FAQ or similiar. Accept that, continue to play as if it exists if you wish, but don't go preaching it as if it were listed in the index.

LOL

No, I can't really "prove" it beyond no doubt any more than prove the falsehood of stuff like this. But don't try to say the rule doesn't exist, or that it isn't entirely reasonable to read it that way.

Oh, and when it is offical to your satisfaction :please: I want to see some serious groveling. :P
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blakkie
post Apr 18 2006, 09:44 PM
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QUOTE (James McMurray @ Apr 18 2006, 03:33 PM)
Am I missing something or is 0 Awareness your only reason for believing it's possible? I didn't read all 4 pages and would rather not. I'm also not looking to argue the point, just wanting to make sure I understand all your points.

Just go to the link I provided and read the posts down to the end of that page (assuming you are using 25 posts/page).

QUOTE
How the fuck would negative notoriety work in real life? Would some leprechaun materialize and smack you over the head with a forgetfulness hammer every time you tried to remember something bad about the character?


Same here. Read to the bottom of the page from the posts linked. Basically you work so low profile you become a ghost (figuratively speaking) to those outside the shadows.


"The greatest trick the devil ever performed was convincing the world he doesnt exist." - Kizer Soza
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emo samurai
post Apr 18 2006, 09:45 PM
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You have roamed the board for too long without a nemesis to keep you in check. You're like Lex Luthor without Superman, or Magneto without Professor Xavier. Can I be your nemesis? Or should I call Critias over?
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James McMurray
post Apr 18 2006, 09:50 PM
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Cool. Thanks.
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blakkie
post Apr 18 2006, 09:51 PM
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QUOTE (emo samurai)
You have roamed the board for too long without a nemesis to keep you in check. You're like Lex Luthor without Superman, or Magneto without Professor Xavier. Can I be your nemesis? Or should I call Critias over?

Critias as Superman? :rotfl: More like he's a street rat that aspires to being the dynamic duo's grip and work long hours into the night polishing Robin's armored cod piece to a glistening bat-shine. :P
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emo samurai
post Apr 18 2006, 09:59 PM
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So that would make you one of those cod that the Penguin eats.
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blakkie
post Apr 18 2006, 10:04 PM
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QUOTE (emo samurai @ Apr 18 2006, 03:59 PM)
So that would make  you one of those cod that the Penguin eats.

Perhaps. But you had already placed the Lex Luther mantle upon me, so let's split the difference and compromise to say Mr. Furious? :rotfl:

EDIT:Oh wait, you wanted to cast me in the role of the villian or the villian's snack. So what about Casanova Frankenstein? :cyber: You can be The Invisible Boy. James McMurray can be The Spleen. :spin:
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GingerbreadMan
post Apr 18 2006, 10:26 PM
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I understand the concept of zero Public Awareness, basically off the radar. But a Negative number?? Wouldn't your contacts stop calling? Would your mamma think you died?
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James McMurray
post Apr 18 2006, 10:34 PM
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How'd you know my secret identity?
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FanGirl
post Apr 18 2006, 11:22 PM
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QUOTE (Azralon)
I should add that some runners would be okay with a high PA. If you're so uber that you're basically a celebrity and you can handle that sort of lifestyle, then knock yourself out. I personally haven't seen it done successfully yet.

I think that, as soon as it becomes clear that my character's PA is too high for her to be able to shake off the cops, I'll try and have her commit a spectacular crime, one that captures the public's imagination and transforms her into a celebrity overnight. Then she'll just walk into the nearest Star or KE office and turn herself in. She'll serve out her sentence happily, bombarded both by adoring letters from her fans and requests from trid and simsense studio reps wanting to buy the rights to her story. When (if) she gets out, she'll buy a nice beach house using the royalties from her book deal and live happily ever after.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Apr 18 2006, 11:23 PM
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QUOTE (Azralon @ Apr 18 2006, 11:31 PM)
Seriously, Blakkie, the existence or nonexistence of negative Notoriety cannot be proven nor disproven until it's delineated in an official FAQ or similiar.

Create a fresh character: Notoriety 0.
Take any positive quality influencing Notoriety: Notoriety -1.

Q.E.D.

As that's what the rules state on Notoriety, and the RAW only prevents Street Cred and Public Avareness from dropping below 0, negative Notoriety is valid.
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