Down in the Gutter: OOC, The Nuts and Bolts of Staying Alive Options

[HeySparky]

WR
et al

Is this part of town wholly uninhabited so that there aren't any comms except the gangers and their associated NPCs? (If it matters, Badmarsh makes all his girls carry comms with good signals).

And would a hidden comm show up? Guh, why isn't this stuff clearer?

[Vegas]

Concerning Hidden Mode:
Hidden states (p. 211 BBB) Your PAN is invisible to other nodes unless you access or authorize them. PAN users in hidden mode are said to be "ghosting" since there is no way for other users to see them.

Detecting Wireless Nodes (p. 225 BBB):
Locating a particular Passive or Active node within range takes only a Free Action. Finding a particular node in a crowded area might be more difficult. Make an Elec. Warfare + Scan (Variable, 1 combat turn) Extended Test against GM determined Threshold.

Finding a wireless node in Hidden mode however is more challenging. Even if you know what you're looking for you must still succeed in an Elec. Warfare + Scan (4) test. If you're just scanning for hidden nodes in general, or trying to pick the hidden nodes out from the non-hidden ones, made the same extended test noted above, but with a much higher threshold: 15+

(Emphasis mine.)

And that's before Wireless interception, not to mention decryption.

[WinterRat1]

Sparky

My interpretation of Hidden Nodes is that you will not even know they are there unless you succeed in an Electronic Warfare + Scan test per SR 4 pg. 225.

Pretty much the only people out and about right now are gangers, and they'd all be running on Hidden because they don't want their rivals to know where they are or even that they're out there.

Hidden mode allows pre-authorized users to communicate with them per SR 4 pg. 211, so gangers wouldn't need to run on Active or Passive, they could simply pre-authorize their fellow gangers to communicate with them.

I'm having the girls on Hidden right now, because Badmarsh would only want them to communicate with him or each other. Certainly they aren't going to be working right now, things being what they are.

Technically speaking, Leon's commlink would pick up other signals, but since Bockscar wants to get in touch with Hammerpack members, he can just use Leon's pre-authorized list to do so. Yeah, comm traffic is nil right now, but this is the Barrens, that stuff happens.

The fact this isn't clearer is aggravating, but let me know if this clears up anything for you.

[HeySparky]

That's what I understood, both from Vegas and from WR.

So Bockscar wouldn't be able to see the 'other' comm mentioned. I'm guessing that was for Nevada? If he does succeed in detecting hidden stuff, he'd see the girls too. That's all I was getting at.

[WinterRat1]

Correct. Bockscar cannot 'see' Nevada's comm. Nor can he see the girls' comms, since he didn't score enough hits for that.

Rob - For clarity's sake, please edit your post to show only one comm detected, not two. Thanks.

EDIT: And per an earlier request, would you please edit your June 16th post to show the correct location on his time/date/location stamp?

[yoippari]

@Konsaki

[ Spoiler ]

I'm assuming you mean 138th Pl NE. 1 Block away.

Reaction Roll: Reaction 4 -> 4d6 -> [6,6,3,4]=2 hits Link
Soak Roll: Body 3 + Ballistic 6 -> 9d6 -> [6,6,6,3,1,6,4,5,5]=6 hitsLink
1st Pilot: Reaction 4 + Pilot(Bike) 3 -> 7d6 -> [1,6,1,4,6,5,2]=3 hits Link
2nd Pilot: Reaction 4 + Pilot(Bike) 3 -> 7d6 -> [6,5,1,5,1,3,4]=3 hits Link
3rd Pilot: Reaction 4 + Pilot(Bike) 3 -> 7d6 -> [6,4,1,5,3,6,4]=3 hits Link
I guess I get 3 hits on my bike tests. I'm suffering a -1 modifier due to 2 stun damage that is not taken into account with those rolls. Reduces my soak roll by one hit, all others are unchanged.

Edit: color of links changed

[rob]

Fair 'nuff, it's still not a meaningful thing. I'll edit my post to account for that.

I'm going to stick to my guns about the ability to detect signals, though. If anybody brodcasts anything on power enough to overlap my antenna, I should be able to hear it. Just like in RL. Note that this applies to my comms as well, any raider within 1 KM should be able to detect if I broadcast anything with my high power commlink (not leon's, like i'm doing right now) Reasoning is in spoilers for brevity's sake.

[ Spoiler ]

Wow, beginning to see why this rigger/hacker stuff is so complicated to GM.

Even if your node is on Hidden, if you want to communicate you have to broadcast something on the radio. I have no issues with not seeing Nevada's comms, because she hasn't broadcast anything. But if she wants to talk to ANYONE, there has to be some way for the signal to get from here to there. Like the radio. Broadcast anything on the radio, and everyone else (if they're listening on the right frequency pattern) will be able to hear it (including if you're broadcasting among nodes slaved to your PAN, but you'd have to be close to intercept the traffic since they're signal 0. Hence the value of skinlinks). I perceive hidden as being more of a wireless protocol thing and generally minimizing signals, but if you want to use any wireless-radio device you have to broadcast, and others can listen.

Hence the difference between sniffer and scan. Intercepting comms is much easier, since I'm just listening to the radio. Scan looks for commlinks that are active on the matrix or somehow willing to accept INCOMING signals. Sniffer looks for OUTGOING radio signals, and the rating is the number of frequencies and frequency patterns it can monitor. Sniffer would not be able to detect, for example, wireless traffic from a small device to the nearest cell phone tower, unless the receiver's within that small device's signal range. It would be able to detect wireless traffic from the cell phone tower to the device, unless the tower broadcasts on low power to things nearby.

I fully admit the unclarity of the rulebook, but sniffer has to be useful for something; and high power radios have to be useful for communicating directly or there's no point in buying signal ratings.

[Meriss]

@yoippari: Use color tags if you are going to use url tags in spoiler tags
eg [ url=forums.dumpshock.com ][ color=red ] link [ /url ] [ /color ]
looks like this in a spoiler

[ Spoiler ]

link

yes more typing but less eyestrain.

@rob I'd say wait for Unwired, but that ain't going to be out till 2008, so let's go with what we got and hope somebody gets it right in unwired.

[rob]

@Meriss - duly noted, but still sticking to my guns on this one. I'm not really saying anything that's different from real life. I mean, there's not much point in buying sniffer or ECCM if a rigger can just run all of his drones on hidden mode and never have to worry about them being detected.

Edit, p. 225 of the rule book, top right corner, describes what I'm trying to do.

[yoippari]

@Meriss

I tried using color before and after the url tag but the standard url trumped the color it was sitting in. Thanks.

[HeySparky]

For the record, I agree with rob on this one. His radio signal scanner should be able to detect any outgoing signals (see 325, it acts like sniffer), and unless the comms are encrypted they can just be listened to.

I have Encrypt and I'm gonna take this little moment of meta-gaming to swap out the programs I have active on my comm. From Browse to Encrpyt. Only because it's a blindspot of me as a player to not have that loaded, not Marsh's as a seedy denizen of the Barrens.

If anyone objects, let me know.

[Meriss]

@rob: I wasn't arguing with you. :) I agree with you that the Radio Scanner sensor acts as Sniffer At least thats how I read the rules. Which is why my rigger and my burgler Adept have Radio Scanner sensors.. I'm just hoping that Unwired will bring a little clarity to the wireless matrix that we're living with now.

@Yoippari: Yeah, took me three edits to figure that out. url tag then color tag *shakes head* BBcode confuses me sometimes. *sigh*

[yoippari]

@Meriss

It makes sense though. Url seems to have a built in color tag. Tags stack from the inside out. So you need to change color from within the other color tag.

A scanner should pick up anything that can broadcast that far. How it sorts out all the signals is hand wavy but it would at least get something.

[Meriss]

@yoip: That actually makes sense. It explains why links are always the same colour.

@all: The IC thread is going to fall off the front page. :(

Side note: Emergence is out in PDF check this thread link

[Konsaki]

@All

I'll be online with enough time to post replies and IC stuff in around 20 hours or so.

[WinterRat1]

My Players

Reminder: Just because I set time/location limits not to go past doesn't mean you can't post. The intention is that you all coordinate to post gradually closer to the aforementioned times and I'll take it from there.

[adamu]

Winter

I know how you feel.

At the moment, I am in a position to IC our trio's arrival back Legion, but didn't want to step over the conversation Doc started with Thumper (which Grack cannot hear over his music).

But if you need things pushed forward before that gets resolved, let me know and I'll link us back up with Legion IC.

[Meriss]

Annnnnd we're off the front page.

[Mister Juan]

[Vegas]

[Vegas]

Konsaki

Nova is up on the wiki and ready for review minus a few incidentals (like carried vs. stored gear and a finishing out the takes section).

[Vegas]

@ Everyone

Everyone should have Nova added to their takes pages waiting for each ganger's impressions. :D

[adamu]

Welcome Geisha!

Glad to have you on board.

[Geisha]

@adamu
Thank you, for the welcome.
I really wanted to play this game, and I am so glad I finally join the gang.

[Abbandon]

@Geisha/Nova , Sparky, and Vegas

Couple of things i saw when looking his character over...

[ Spoiler ]

#1. Didnt pay for his cyber with essense. You pay full amount for whatever you have the most of and then half off the other type. He has .7 and .7 so that should be around 1 or 1.1 essense total loss.

#2. Geisha you might want to list that your predator gets smartlink for free in your gear list and choose what and how your carrying stuff.

#3. is more for Sparky and Vegas. Somebody loped off the bottom of his mechanics page. (wasnt me hehe).

#4. Oh and to whom i may concern. He has all those stun weapons and I dont know the official damage values for that stuff i guess. I think they changed between the book and the SR4 Errata or something especially SnS ammo. I filled in the book values anyway. So if anyone knows the official numbers they can correct that stuff.

Man Adamu/Grack makes me feel so lazy. While i was filling in my take of Nova I realised I could have related everybody to sim characters or something. I am constantly flip flopping on Fool personality though between crazy about sims to just a fairly selfish almost evil guy. So thanks Adamu!! :(