 Augmentation Q&A, Ask the developers and the authors |
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 Aug 1 2007, 08:59 PM
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#276
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 811 Joined: 30-January 07 From: Portland, OR Member No.: 10,845  |
Sorry to interrupt, but I have yet to hear an official reply to the Type O quality.
Does it affect cultured as well as basic bioware. At 30BP it is steep and for good reason, it allows you to fit twice as much bioware. However, it only seems like it would be a problem after a long time since it doesnt actually give you the bioware cheaper. Still, a response please? |
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Aug 1 2007, 10:06 PM
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#277
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 108 Joined: 12-March 06 From: TX Member No.: 8,363 |
I've got a question about the new eyeware:
With the Eye Tool Laser being listed as a sub of the Eye Laser System, am I right in assuming that to have the Tool, you have to have the System in your cybereyes and [9] capacity to spare? |
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Aug 1 2007, 10:16 PM
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#278
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
My guess is that Type O doesn't affect cultured-only bioware. On page 61 they equate cultured-only bioware with neural bioware, and apparently it has to mesh just right with your brain and nervous system to even work right, so it's not just a matter of blood type matching and immune suppression.
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Aug 1 2007, 10:37 PM
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#279
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Yes, they have similar functions and grant similar abilities, however, the data they produce is different and the olfactory booster doesn't make you more susceptible to the physiological effects of smells (which EPR achieves by enhancing the neural connectivity for olfactory stimuli to the relevant part of the brain and gives its Social modifiers). On the plus side the olfactory booster allows you to tune out smells, while the EPR doesn't.
The system is smart enough to understand when to cut off, but ultimately it will let you loose the limb rather than let you die.
It's been introduced in SR3 and its likely to be in Arsenal.
If you destroy enough of its physical shell the magics keeping the spirit bound to it will fail, much the same way that as shooting the hell out of an inhabiting Insect spirit will kill it.
Note that none of my answers on DSF are "official" until they're included in either errata or a FAQ. That being said a sim module isn't strictly necessary. A datajack or other DNI pan-connection would cover that as long as your wirelessly linked to the gear. Sim modules are only really necessary to reproduce simsense.
They can handle that wirelessly over a PAN or directly.
Pretty much, though technically your GM would be correct in requiring that the DNI device be something capable of passing on instructions rather than simply running diagnostics or performing preset functions (ie. the default setting on most cyberlimbs) - but anything capable of linking up with a PAN should be able to pass on simple instructions (ie. a datajack, etc). Your GM may also consider limiting the type of instructions sent to something very simple if the device isn't really designed for the purpose (ie. a math SPU). |
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Aug 2 2007, 03:06 AM
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#280
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
hmm maybe you need to go back and edit this abit,,,seems to be abit confusing. :) |
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Aug 2 2007, 03:32 AM
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#281
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Target Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 18-October 05 Member No.: 7,855 |
Ok, I guess I'm slow, because I'm still confused. Are you saying that the olfactory booster just gives you hard data ("you smell the following molecular compound that makes up a metahuman pheromone"), while the EPR puts the pheromonal info into the context because we're still living beings? Are the social bonuses not aplicable to the olfactory booster? Are the two incompatible? Or can the OB be used to filter the input from the EPR? I'm stumbling over this because the cons of the EPR seem to outweigh the pros. I mean, the pros are fantastic, but of little consolation when you can smell your next door neighbor's response to a bad Stuffer's Shack burrito, realizing that half of Seattle seems to have forgotten how to use deodorant, and getting nasally blinded by the stench of spent gunpowder in a firefight. And while the respirator helps, having to take it on and off seems to be impractical. Unless there are some sort of minifilters? Some sort of headware that can let you control how much sensory input you let through (like the sound isolator)? Nanomachines seem to be the answer for everything now, as well... Frankly, I think that knowing if a member of your team washes his/her hands after hitting the can falls under the "things you don't want to have to know" category... |
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Aug 2 2007, 03:42 AM
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#282
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 251 Joined: 29-April 02 Member No.: 2,659 |
Internal Air Tank (or Oxyrush nano). Just hold your breath. |
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Aug 2 2007, 05:24 AM
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#283
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 199 Joined: 11-September 05 Member No.: 7,729 |
Since respirators only seem to negate the penalties associated with using the EPR in a strongly-scented environment, and apparently don't affect the positive aspects, there'd be little reason to take it off unless you were somewhere you knew to be "safe". With the high levels of pollution, threat of bio/chem attacks (or simply paranoia of same), deadly airborne diseases, and allergies generally being the rule, rather than the exception, walking around downtown with a respirator on is fairly common. They've even been incorporated into 6th World fashion trends.
As for compatibility between the implants - unless they errata it later, there doesn't seem to be any reason for them not to work together. From the text, it seems that the Olfactory Booster is largely focused on pre-processing and the EPR is post-processing. The OB breaks-down and analyzes scents before they hit your brain and sends the information along (or blocks it, depending on your settings). Then it's up to you to interpret the data it presents you with (which is why you don't get the social bonuses - interpretation and integration is a one-off affiar). The EPR, on the other hand, appears to enhance your brain's ability to work with that data once it gets there. And so, the cut-out ability of the former would seem to be perfectly suited to filter out distracting odors. |
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Aug 2 2007, 07:42 AM
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#284
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Fixed.
That's pretty much it. See the fluff example of cybereyes in the "Detachment" section of the fiction in the Cyberware chapter. What happens with cyber is that your brain gets the data, cleaned up, processed, and artificial. The difference lies in the fact that EPR also enhances the neurosensory transmission to the parts of the brain that handle emotions (ie. triggering emotional cues and affecting body language). What grants Social modifiers is the fact that your body is subconciously reacting to this sensory information. Or what TonkaTuff just said.
They aren't technically incompatible, but since EPR also involves increasing the olfactory sensory capabilities of the (biological) nose I'd rule that you only get the dice bonus from one or the other - rather than making them cumulative.
You've hit upon the downside of most bioware sensory enhancements. You can't really control the expanded acuity any more than you can turn up or down your natural hearing or sense of smell. You'll see the Audio enhancement has a similar drawback. We'll probably have mini-nosefilters in Arsenal and standard respirators are in common use in most sprawls so its hardly impractical... We did have a set of sensory dampers (cyberware similar to a data filter) that actively reduced neurotransmission of sensory data to certain areas of thE brain. But it was so specific in function (ie. filters for natural or bio sensory organs) we ended up dropping them for space.
This is still one of the advantages of cyber over bio, it's a machine you can tune. |
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Aug 2 2007, 09:48 AM
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#285
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Am I reading you right, or are you saying that implants like the Olfactory Booster don't actually boost your olfactory capabilities? That it's just a sensor shoved in your nose and displays a read-out on your image link. That's about the only way I can see it working as you described, because if it actually sent the enhanced data to your brain, your brain would still be the main processor. The Olfactory Booster would simply be augmenting that capability in the same end fashion as the EPR would. The only difference would -- and should -- be how the sensor itself worked.
And if you are saying its merely a sensor and that sends visual data to an image link... well, that's pretty silly because then you're essentially implying that that's how everything else works, too. That cybereyes don't actually send images to the brain, it sends a text read-out of what it sees. That cyberears don't send sounds to the brain, it sends a text read-out of what it hears. etc. It's not like a real eye is a data-processing machine, either. It's not all "okay, I see a bird; brain, you see a bird." It just sends the image it sees to the brain and the brain interprets and processes it as appropriate. |
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Aug 2 2007, 09:57 AM
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#286
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
> You see a patrolling guard *sounds of the guard's footsteps*
Hide > There is no place to hide Shoot > Shoot what ? Shoot the guard > You shoot the guard *sound of the gun* |
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Aug 2 2007, 10:10 AM
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#287
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
No the difference is in the information conveyed, the intensity, and the way that information is used by the brain. While you can tune the Olfactory booster to regulate the intensity and quality of the data the human brain processes it just like any sensory data - meaning you'll get all the same reactions an unaugmented human would to that intensity and "quality" of scent. So while it will let you smell "fear" on a person, or phermones put out by someone attracted to you - your own reaction to this data is, for lack of a better word, unaugmented. The ERP implant enhances the neurological connections not only to the parts of the brain that proccess the olfactory senses, but it also enhances your susceptibility to the emotional stimulus/cues carried by scents to "superhuman" levels. This can be a good or a bad thing. |
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Aug 2 2007, 10:35 AM
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#288
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 6-September 02 Member No.: 3,234 |
Well, allowing people to have effective delta bioware at basic bio prices is a huge, huge nuyen saving, if you ask me. It makes military cutting-edge stuff available that much sooner. Quite the nice Quality if you wish to build Midnighter or Dark Angel the Bio Sammie. It may not be that much of a difference for the 300-pts. gang kid for whom even the prices of basic bio may be still a concern, but for a 500-pts elite operative it makes a world of difference. |
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Aug 2 2007, 10:40 AM
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#289
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 6-September 02 Member No.: 3,234 |
I really don't see why it should not affect neural bioware as well (I really, really wish they'd dropped the cultured label for sure; it only creates confusion with bioware grades). Even if you have to tweak all neural bioware to make it mesh with individual nervous system patterns, blood/immune type matching is still going to be an issue, which perfect, non-allergenic matching nicely sidesteps. This from a fluff-wise POV. Ruleswise, you can still buy neural bioware at Alpha, Beta, or Delta grades, and Type O allows to buy basic grade bio as Delta grade, so it should work for that as well. |
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Aug 2 2007, 11:29 AM
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#290
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
I hope this question wasn´t ask before (just point me to the answer if it has been answered):
Do we add or multiply percentages in SR4? Is there a hard rule? For example alphaware and adapsin: 10% + 10% = 20% reduction or x0,9 x0,9 = x0,81 multiplier? This question becomes important with the many different reductions or increases you have in augmentation. |
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Aug 2 2007, 11:34 AM
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#291
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
The rule of thumb is 10% + 10% + 10% = 30% = x0.7. It's not 10% of 10% of 10% or x0.9 x0.9 x0.9. You can find an example of this in Street Magic when they discuss the reductions to Initiation costs.
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Aug 2 2007, 04:52 PM
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#292
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CosaNostra Deliverator Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 346 Joined: 29-January 05 From: Philadelphia, PA Member No.: 7,034 |
Synner,
Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions. A few questions: 1. Regarding bioware sensory improvements, shouldn't AR (with a sim module) be able to tune out unpleasant odors? Especially considering AR can create things like Virtual Weather? 2. To repeat a question from before, does Daradrenaline give a +1 modifier to Drain resistance? 3. Another quick repeat, does Simsense Boosting stack with a technomancer's Overclocking? Does the Encephalon's bonuses to the Cracking and Electronic Groups work for a technomancer? Thanks, JKL |
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Aug 2 2007, 05:07 PM
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#293
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
There was a sorta bad, but sorta cool anime that came out a few years ago that translated to "Speed Grapher" or something along those lines... a few of the characters in an otherwise standard modern environment had superpowers. One character had an incredibly sensitive nose, and was employed by a syndicate to run down people hiding from them by following the scent of their pheromones, sometimes for miles. |
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Aug 2 2007, 06:50 PM
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#294
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
So if that's the case, then deltaware + adapsin + bio-compatablility means cybernetics for 30% essence loss, not 40.5% essence loss? |
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Aug 2 2007, 06:51 PM
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#295
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
That's how I'd rule it. |
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Aug 2 2007, 07:01 PM
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#296
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
I'd rule it the other way, because that 10% difference is big enough to bother me.
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Aug 2 2007, 07:05 PM
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#297
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Because if someone has adapsin, bio-compatability, that much deltaware, the 10% is what's going to make them overpowered. ;) |
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Aug 2 2007, 07:08 PM
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#298
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
That question was already covered in the original Augmention thread.
It indeed simply adds up, to 30%. |
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Aug 2 2007, 07:13 PM
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#299
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Yes.
I sometimes do my bio-compatability backwards. In other words, how many "virtual" essence points does this cost reduction give me? It breaks down when you mix grades, but it gives a basic idea. Multiplying multipliers, you get a "virtual" essence of 14.8 (inverse of 40.5% is 247%, of 6). Adding multipliers and then figurin it, assuming everything was deltaware, means you get a virtual essence of 20 ( Inverse of 30% is 333%, of 6). Serious difference. |
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Aug 2 2007, 07:22 PM
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#300
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Math notice: the first is a percentage reduction, the second is a cost multiplier.
For the following examples, let us say you have a cyberimplant that costs 1.0 Essence, and you apply three modifiers (percent reduction/cost multiplier) to the Essence cost - the implant is deltaware (-50%/0.5) and you have adapsin (-10%/0.9) and biocompatibility (-10%/0.9) If you add the reductions before applying, then (-50%) + (-10%) + (-10%) = (-70%), giving a final Essence cost of 0.3. If you apply the reductions seperately, then ((1.0 x (0.5)) x (0.9)) x (0.9) = 0.405 Essence. So a character with Biocompatibility (cyberware) and adapsin who only took deltaware implants would receive a (-70%/0.3) if adding or (-59.5%/0.405) if multiplying. [/edit] In other words, you do better to simply add the percentage reduction than to apply the modifiers. |
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