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 Augmentation Q&A, Ask the developers and the authors |
 Aug 10 2007, 06:40 PM
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#476
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panda!  Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242  |
i see that there is a 6 box threshold inside the fatigue damage rule.
i guess that one could get around the trauma damper by ruling that the count goes on even if the damper removes the actual damage. as in, instead of a gradual degradation and warning that your taking damage, you suddenly just drop from exhaustion. |
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Aug 10 2007, 06:41 PM
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#477
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
That would be a Pain Editor, or perhaps Damage Compensators.
By RAW, you never reach said Threshold with a Trauma Dampener. |
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Aug 10 2007, 06:42 PM
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#478
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 108 Joined: 12-March 06 From: TX Member No.: 8,363 |
Fatigue due to sprinting, swimming etc. states that the 1 Stun per unit of time and it cannot be resisted. (p155 SR4)
The way Trauma Damper is written, you can interpret "Whenever Physical or Stun damage is inflicted upon a character with a trauma damper, the damper helps reduce the damage." (p70 Aug) to mean an outside source is causing the damage, be it bullet, axe or spell. Fatigue rules also state that you can only take 6 Stun before you have to start making Body + Willpower (2) tests every unit of time to avoid collapsing in exhuastion. You could require this test even if you let the runner resist the stun. Eventually they will fail it, though without wound modifiers, that can take a long time. The house rule we looking at using is the Damper does not stop Stun from physical exertion but adds +3 bonus dice to tests determine when Fatigue Damage would begin, so a person with Running 4 and Strength 4 would have 8 dice normally and 11 dice with the Damper to determine how many Combat Rounds they can sprint beyond their Body before Fatigue sets in. |
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Aug 10 2007, 08:56 PM
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#479
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 695 Joined: 2-January 07 From: He has here a minute ago... Member No.: 10,514 |
I have aquestion, since a move-by-wire's expert system control movement for your whole body, will hacking it give you total control over a person? I understand it doesn't work like a stirrup system, you can't jump into it, but could you make a group of hacked security guards start dancing in mid combat?
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Aug 10 2007, 09:09 PM
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#480
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Yes. This is why I strongly suggest leaving yur move-by-wire system dependent upon physical contact with instruction sets. Sure it's convenient to wirelessly share the contents of activesofts between group members, and manually changing activesofts mid-combat is bullshit - but leaving a wireless command input available for your move-by-wire is just too dangerousif the enmies include decent hackers or technomancers. -Frank |
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Aug 11 2007, 02:51 PM
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#481
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 695 Joined: 2-January 07 From: He has here a minute ago... Member No.: 10,514 |
I have game tomorrow, I think I may have to give some guard move-by-wire now. My players have been complaining that that hacking cyberware doesn't work like Ghost in the Shell. This just might do it ^_^
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Aug 11 2007, 04:34 PM
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#482
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Except for the sentence that reads: "If the character continues to run beyond this base period, he or she begins taking 1 box of Stun damage each Combat Turn from fatigue" From SR4, 155. Thus, fatigue damage IS stun damage, and goes away. Another note on running, is jogging stun damage is resistable, while sprinting stun damage is not. I'd go with by RAW, you can sprint indefinately via the trauma dampener, because the 1 box of stun is subtracted from the damage taken (i.e. not resisted) by the trauma dampener. Its not like being able to run for miles on end is severely game breaking. We're not playing olympic sprinters 2070. Though, give someone a trauma dampener, raptor legs, and cyber skates, and their base running movement goes from 25 (human) to 55. Now, with normal base movement, they're going 500meters/minute, or 30km/h(18mph). With raptor legs/skates, they're going 1100 meters/minute, or 66km/h(41mph). |
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Aug 12 2007, 03:12 AM
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#483
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
I didn't say what the RAW was, I said how I'd rule it.
Given that perpetual sprinting isn't mentioned as an effect of the trauma dampener, given that it doens't logically stem from what a trauma dampener is supposed to do, and given that it makes several different types of augmentations which reduce fatigue obsolete if ruled that way, I feel that allowing it to work that way isn't in the spirit of the rules. Even if it isn't game breaking. If there was an augmentation that allowed you to sprint perpetually, I'd be cool, but this isn't it. Besides, SR4 isn't known for it's perfectly worded rules. It's not immaculately phrased legalese, like some games I could mention. Hell, Augmentation used the phrase "at the gamemaster's discretion" or similar more times than I care to remember. |
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Aug 12 2007, 09:35 AM
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#484
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
In fact, perpetual sprinting is possible for any character with a total of 10 dice in body and willpower: Fatigue Damage caps out at 6, than he must make a threshold two test with this dicepool... and he suffers from a -2 wound modifier. So he still can buy two hit on the test and roll on... which is why it's better to swim than to tread water. The problem of the TD that there will be never any Fatigue damage at all... granted, the rule consistency of Physical Skills is quite bad itself, but no need to make it even worse. |
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Aug 12 2007, 02:52 PM
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#485
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Sure there is. There's a need to make it worse if following the RAW leads to situations that violate one's suspension of disbeleif.
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Aug 12 2007, 10:38 PM
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#486
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 276 Joined: 6-August 02 From: Kiel, Germany Member No.: 3,071 |
Some errors I noted:
pg 42: The Fingertip Dartgun has a listed Essence Value, besided being Cyberhand implantable only (same with pg 169) pg 49: In the picture Evo Manatara is a skinlink, in the text muscle replacement On a side note: When will we finally get a new Version of teh SR4 pdf? |
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Aug 13 2007, 12:29 AM
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#487
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Shortly after Catalyst's first printing of SR4 goes to press, which I do not have a date for yet. |
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Aug 13 2007, 06:28 AM
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#488
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Will it look cooler or just be a reprint? |
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Aug 13 2007, 01:59 PM
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#489
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
well, do you think the catalyst logo looks more or less cool than the current one? =P (ie it's probably just going to be a reprint with a different logo on it, since it makes little sense to rewrite the main book over again. particularly when there's a danger of old-fashioned pitchfork and torch mobs showing up screaming for unwired :P ) |
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Aug 13 2007, 02:22 PM
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#490
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
There, you ruined his hope for a new cover. :P
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Aug 13 2007, 02:24 PM
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#491
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Adam, I would suggest "flattening" your pages when you release your PDFs. It cuts the size down and makes loading each page easier for those of us with slower computers.
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Aug 13 2007, 02:34 PM
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#492
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
And resolves issues with other viewers. PDF v1.4 is usually the best choice.
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Aug 13 2007, 04:32 PM
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#493
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Yeah. I use ghostview, and augmentation's pages took 5 minutes to load everytime I changed the page.
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Aug 13 2007, 04:40 PM
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#494
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Flattening transparency actually makes the file size large [converts a bunch of vectors to rasters], and raises quality issues [like the fuzzy text overtop background graphics in some of the versions of the SR4 PDF.]
I'll try to make sure files go out as PDF v1.4 in the future, though; looks like Augmentation got "upgraded" at some point in the process. |
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Aug 13 2007, 06:05 PM
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#495
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 695 Joined: 2-January 07 From: He has here a minute ago... Member No.: 10,514 |
Augmentations looks great in Foxit, both Windows and Linux. Tiny files size was very much appreciated.
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Aug 14 2007, 01:22 AM
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#496
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 276 Joined: 6-August 02 From: Kiel, Germany Member No.: 3,071 |
Updated list of errors I noted:
pg 42: The Fingertip Dartgun has a listed Essence Value, besides being Cyberhand implantable only (same with pg 169) pg 49: In the picture Evo Manatara is a skinlink, in the text muscle replacement pg 110: The table is missing an entry for tagants, it is included in the back of the book... pg 134: Medkits cost 100 x rating and contain (among other things) medicaments worth 210 x rating... pg 154: For simplicity’s sake, swarms that don’t possess the same Body merge into a swarm with the lesser of the two Body values. (This can't be correct, because now, two swarm that merge produce less insects than before... higher should be correct) Tables in the back: It is not marked which book is the source... A * or something would have been nice... |
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Aug 14 2007, 06:04 AM
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#497
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Cover? That'd be a start. Most of the the art makes my eyes bleed. Also I've held limited edition 3rd up next to limited edition 4th and wanted to cry because of the loss of quality. Of course things are getting better Street Magic was very slick, Augmentation is adequate. Both are by far better than the current BB cover and interior. Could those pages get any thinner btw? |
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Aug 14 2007, 04:11 PM
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#498
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
Hi
Is there now an official ruling / FAQ / errata or quote for how to deal with armor on cyberlimbs in combination with other sources of armor (bones, armor jacket, full body combat suit) a) Cyberarmor 1 = +1/+1 like helmets, stacks with all other sources (stacking cyberarmor could then easily bring you to a combined armor value of 16/16). b) Cyberarmor 1 = 1/1, does NOT stack with other sources (considered an additional layer of armor). c) Cyberarmor gets averaged (cyberarmorvalue / 6) and added to the worn armor. A simple direction or helping rule quote (not found so far in BBB and Augmentation) would be nice. I already searched 10+ pages of the forum, but didn´t fine any helpful. SYL |
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Aug 14 2007, 04:13 PM
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#499
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
A is how RAW plays it.
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Aug 14 2007, 04:17 PM
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#500
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
I thought so.
If it is possible: can you point me to an official quote or discussion? Because both Augmentation and BBB are a little bit unclear to me in this point. SYL |
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