 Riggers, and the tricks they play. |
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 Nov 14 2007, 04:36 AM
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#1
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421  |
I just joined a game and I am playing a rigger for the first time. I'm fine making the character, I think, high mentals, decent physicals skills in B/R and skills related to commanding drones and driving. However, I was wondering if some people who might be more experienced with rigging could give me some equipment/program/tactic pointers and things to expect. I would appreciate any and all input.
Chris |
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Nov 14 2007, 05:21 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 |
I recommend getting a comlink with a Biofeedback Filter program, and run your rigging connections through that any time you use VR, to reduce dumpshock damage. Alternatively, get a cracked copy of BF, and run it on each of your drones.
Once you have the resources for a fleet of drones, cracked copies of autosofts are a big cost saver over buying a new license/copy for each drone. Have a high Program skill, or a friend with high Program skill, or Contact with a warez dealer. (If that's OK with your ethics, of course.) Any of your drones or vehicles *could* become compromised, damaged, etc., so file off serial numbers and otherwise reduce ways they can be tracked back to you eg by forensics. Install antitheft measures eg Pepper Punch dispenser into your primary vehicle, and get it a high Pilot and Clearsight and Motion Sensor, Microphone, Camera w/Thermographics, so that it can detect thieves, unfriendly spy drones, etc. Other accessories for primary: internal fire suppression system, wi-fi-blocking paint (with a hardwired port so you can connect your or a teammate's comlink to the external antenna), an extra layer of catalyst paint that you can burn off for a quick appearance change to the color of the underlying fireproof paint. A van can be outfitted with Stations (see Augmentation) - including Auto Repair & First Aid. Handy gadget: Relay Cable - a length of fiber-optic cable with a tranceiver antenna at either end. Useful for, say, going into a tunnel and still having a way to communicate with your vehicle parked topside. (cost: as per signal upgrade for each end, plus cost of cable) Minidrones can be treated much more expendably. Learning EW skill is optional; you can have drones/agents with the EW autosoft, and a rating 6 signal scanner is only $150. What's your combat option if you get attacked in a place where you can't have a gun-drone, eg inside a bar? |
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Nov 14 2007, 10:31 AM
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#3
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Actually, I believe that is one skill that Agents and Pilots cannot use. |
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Nov 14 2007, 11:58 AM
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#4
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
Another possible idea: Only bother raising your key driving skill(s), buy skill wires and skillsofts for the ones that are of secondary concern.
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Nov 14 2007, 03:39 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 617 Joined: 28-May 03 From: Orlando Member No.: 4,644 |
Yep this is available as an Autosoft now Fortune. |
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Nov 14 2007, 04:22 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
So, I'm in the Carib League. Looks like my main transportation(land) is going to be a tricked out Bulldog, and I'm not sure what my main water transportation will be probably the Sea Otter. Sadly, I do not have the money to purchase a plane. Instead of the Otter, I may just buy a hovercraft. Easier to sink, but more versatile. Not sure.
I'm thinking several Fly Spys, maybe a microskimmer or two, maybe a crawler, not that likely though, at least one doberman, and probably two roto-drones, at least one stormcloud, one crashcart, and at least one Steel Lynx. So, I've heard tell that individual drones can total up to some outrageous prices. Any suggestions where I can/should cut corners or just general "This crap is wonderful to have on your drones" stuff? Chris |
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Nov 14 2007, 04:45 PM
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#7
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
A tricked out drone can run you 40k and up.
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Nov 14 2007, 04:47 PM
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#8
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
Talk to your GM and see what sensor and audio/visual enhancements he'll let you put onto drones. That may answer some of your questions about what you do and do not have to buy for your drones. Also ask what the policy is on cracking Autosofts (and other Programs) because you might be able to purchase one copy of all Autosofts and crack them. There are a number of house rules floating around for cracking and it's downsides, so make sure you know what you're getting into here. |
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Nov 14 2007, 05:06 PM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
You wouldn't happen to have an example lying around would you, Dire?
Chris |
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Nov 14 2007, 05:07 PM
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#10
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
- FlySpy drone with visual enhancement. Grenades that have the "detonate on AR" option enabled.
- "Overwatch" blimp drones (disguise as marketing drone if you go downtown). Depends on you visualisation of the setting of course. - Drones working as relay station for hacking attempts. Tune signal strength to avoid triggering security paranoia. - Cars belonging to someone else don´t have to be sold; they make capable weapons and "door openers". This happens even today, despite the lack of remote driving. |
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Nov 14 2007, 05:09 PM
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#11
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Not in SR4. There simply aren't any real options. The most expensive drone -- as opposed to a vehicle that can be remotely-piloted -- is the Steel Lynx (5,000¥). It's large enough for one weapon mount (2,5000¥) of LMG or smaller size. The most expensive weapon in that category is the Ranger Arms SM-4 Sniper Rifle (6,200¥). That's 13,700¥. That's also about the entirity of your customization options. And that's about it. Unless you're somehow loading it with ~26,300¥ worth of ammunition or firearm accessories, you're not even close to "40,000¥ and up." |
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Nov 14 2007, 05:17 PM
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#12
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
@DTFarstar:
05000 Steel Lynx 08000 Response Upgrade 03000 Signal Upgrade 15000 PilotUpgrade 03000 Firewall Upgrade ----- Overall Device Rating 6: achieved 02500 HK XM30 (SSGs have no business on a Steel Lynx IMO) 00500 minimal Sensor costs 37000 Overall. Spice with autosofts to taste. This can be paid by work, mostly. You only buy software once, and hardware upgrades can be constructed for half-price. |
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Nov 14 2007, 05:33 PM
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#13
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
2000 Peregrine - Fuchi Helo-Drone (MCT-Nissan Roto-drone (Medium)) 6 2,000¥
Handling 0 Accel 10/25 Speed 100 Pilot 3 Body 3 Armor 2 Sensor 3 2500 - Weapon Mount 2000 - Ingram White Knight 6P –1 BF/FA 5 (6) 50 © or 100 (belt) 12F 2,000¥ 4000 - Response 5 1000 - Signal 5 Sensor Suite 100 - Camera 100 Low Light 300 Vision Magnification 500 Smartlink 300 Vision Enhancement 3 50 Flare Compensation 150 - Radio Signal Scanner 50 - Microphone 300 Audio Enhancement 3 600 Select Sound Filter 3 450 - Cyberware Scanner 6 50 - Motion Sensor 10,000 Pilot 4 3000 Firewall 6 3000 Electronic Warfare 6 3000 Manuever 6 3000 Targeting 6 3000 Clear Sight 6 3000 Defense 6 |
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Nov 14 2007, 05:34 PM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
Of course you are limited to Pilot <= 4 at character creation thanks to availability. You'll also need to check with your GM about how he handles upgrading and device ratings. Some people do Pilot = Device rating Some people do Steel Lynx = Security device = 4 With upgrading some people do what Ryu seems to do where you have to build from the ground up. In my group you just have to pay to go up the extra level but device rating = pilot so response, signal, and firewall are at 3. Where drones get universally expensive is when you start tricking them out for hardcore hacking. Simply putting Stealth on all your drones can run a high price. |
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Nov 14 2007, 05:37 PM
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#15
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Yep, then it becomes the incredibly expensive flying armed Hacking commlink o' doom. |
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Nov 14 2007, 05:43 PM
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#16
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
1) Autosofts aren't bought for drones, they're bought for the rigger. The rigger can then upload those autosofts to whatever drones he likes, just like he can load up any agents he has with whatever programs he has. Nevermind that they're limited to a rating of 4, period, and only cost 1,100¥ each at that point.
2) Pilot upgrade for a drone is only 2,500¥ unless you decide to (randomly) ignore the logic of upgrading costs rather than buying stuff new. And yes, upgrading software is and should be viable. Go look at the price difference between buying Windows Vista new vs. an XP upgrade package as a nice, modern example. 3) With accurate prices, your example is only around 22,000¥. |
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Nov 14 2007, 07:22 PM
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#17
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Hmmm. Now, you see, about two months ago I was going on about how Agents could use EW, and someone popped up and supposedly showed me proof that they couldn't. I hate the Matrix! :( |
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Nov 14 2007, 07:29 PM
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#18
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
They were probably arguing that Pilots can use Autosofts but Agents can't. That seems odd to me, but that may well be what the book says. *shrug* |
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Nov 14 2007, 08:06 PM
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#19
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
You know, that is probably the case. Oh well. |
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Nov 14 2007, 08:07 PM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 76 Joined: 12-September 07 Member No.: 13,233 |
40 k :nuyen: or 20 k :nuyen: , whatever. It's still freakin' expensive, especially if your drone gets toasted. (And 5k :nuyen: seems standard payout round here. So if one drone gets wasted in four runs, you've just lost all of your profit.) And autosofts/Pilots, depending on how strict your GM is, may be specific to gear/drone. |
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Nov 14 2007, 08:17 PM
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#21
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
1) This is for a drone designed to be expensive. Not for one you'd use as a disposable drone.
2) Conjuring Materials are 1.5k per unit. Know that Force 6 bound spirit your magician is toting around? 9k. And it's pretty much only useful for one run, too. Then you have to blow another 9k to either summon a new one or re-bind that one. And unlike a drone, there's no options available; it's going to be consumed one way or another, an expensive drone can survive through multiple runs and potentially never get destroyed. 3) Riggers can hijack other drones just fine, and thus never pay a cent for replacement drones. 4) Every other general type of character has expensive gear that can be lost or destroyed in the course of a run. Turn to Goo can and should destroy just about every piece of cyberware in the target's body with a single casting. Magicians have foci that can be targeted by malicious opponents. Hackers have commlinks that can get confiscated, stolen, or destroyed. etc. So what makes drones and riggers so special? |
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Nov 14 2007, 08:20 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 29-December 06 Member No.: 10,483 |
Well for when you are in a bar, depending on how well your rigger preplans I could argue that a Van outside with a LMG can be used as a weapon. Since it can most likely penetrate most barriers between it and your opponent. Even if it doesn't, it should at least make the guy duck for cover. The tactic however does have its downsides, such as collateral, glitching, and of course being slightly pyschotic.
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Nov 14 2007, 08:23 PM
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#23
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Target Group: Members Posts: 76 Joined: 12-September 07 Member No.: 13,233 |
1) Nobody plans for drones to be disposable, but it happens.
2) True. And the mage can summon a spirit on the fly and pay nothing. 3) Good point. Depends on the GM, but you may or may not get the opportunity to snatch drones. (Works both ways, I'm pretty sure.) 4) Whatever. If I get turned to goo, I'm pretty sure my last concern is how much my wired reflexes cost. And my GM has never toasted a commlink or trashed a focus, nor have I done so. So yes, it's possible, but it NEVER HAPPENS. That's what's different. EDIT: I'm not trying to argue that rigging shouldn't be expensive. It should be: there's a reason why everybody doesn't simply send an army of robots to do their dirty work rather than roll up their sleeves and do the work themselves. But it clearly is expensive. |
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Nov 14 2007, 08:28 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 103 Joined: 21-August 07 Member No.: 12,814 |
The book seems pretty clear on Autosofts used on a drone (not off the Commlink), but does not say the Commlink would make copies for you. It sounds like they are run on the drone, and thus you would need to either purchase multiple copies or use the copy rules to crack and copy the software. This is the best choice, as the price is high and the extended test for copying is not that long (as compared to the very long time of most hardware and things like Pilot).
While it is a pretty logic (I'm with you on that), I don't see anything in SR4 to support the practice. The rules seem to suggest full price for upgrades, and that is the rule being used for SR Missions. |
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Nov 14 2007, 08:33 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 103 Joined: 21-August 07 Member No.: 12,814 |
I've tried to put a number of examples and build ideas in the post I made in the Rigging and Hacking topic. |
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