Confused on: Bunraku, One word, multiple meanings? Options

[hyzmarca]

There's someone to finger you of a crime. But it's the old Godfather scene in the Reno brothel. Sure she doesn't have a family. Sure she won't remember. But the parlor owner/operator knows what you did. And their hidden trid cameras know what you did as well.

So long as you can afford it, they probably don't even care about any surprises. Not that there's a need for them to be surprised. If you can't afford it then you're probably now indebted to some rather unpleasant Family men.

That trick works exactly once. After that, they don't have any more clients. No one comes and they are forced to get plastic surgery and move to an other city (or cut their fraggin' fingers off) if the blackmailed client doesn't just hire a shadowrunner to kill them.

[HardSix]

I can't imagine bunraku parlors would really cost the organized crime syndicates all that much.

For one, they have much better buying power than most runners or even singular fixers... they can afford to buy cyber (probably second-hand since essense isn't any consideration but costs would be) in bulk and keep cyberdocs on the payroll/blackmailed/extorted especially since they also cyber-up their soldiers and many management-types. If something happens to the puppet - like disease, retirement, customer violence, etc. - I'm sure the cyber would be stripped out and reused in the newest employee.

Secondly, I imagine many bunraku parlors would have extense video/audio recording. A lot of money, or other offers-that-can't-be-refused, can be made blackmailing anyone with any wealth or connections. I imagine a lot of corps would set up their own PFixed "specialists" to keep their important employees from needing outside companionship. Also, the video can be quick-edited and broadcast/stamped into chips as standard porn (or porn with sim tracks if the puppet is equipped with a full recorder).

And wouldn't cybering up employees qualify as a tax write-off (under some legit sub-contractor business name, like 'On-Call Person Services' or some-such)?

[kzt]

Too little short term memory and they can't carry on a normal conversation (OH MY GOD WHO ARE YOU AND WHY DON'T YOU HAVE PANTS ON!?) and too much and they threaten client privacy. I'm sure meat puppets get dosed regularly with that drug that retroactively erases memories as well.

IIRC, people who have injuries that prevent them from remembering stuff normally are OK until they sleep, when your mind is supposed to transfer info from short term to long term memory. So when they wake up they don't remember anything before whatever injured them.

[martindv]

That trick works exactly once. After that, they don't have any more clients. No one comes and they are forced to get plastic surgery and move to an other city (or cut their fraggin' fingers off) if the blackmailed client doesn't just hire a shadowrunner to kill them.

How... Isn't that basically how organized crime works?

I mean, last time I checked paying for sex is illegal. I mean, sure, killing a prostitute is a bit more serious. But it's a matter of degrees. You walk into a mob brothel, you expect to deal with the mob.

And wouldn't cybering up employees qualify as a tax write-off (under some legit sub-contractor business name, like 'On-Call Person Services' or some-such)?

"Entertainment" expenses or just perks. Because I am sure comfort women (and men) are part of the compensation package when you become a wageslave. And that probably even includes sculpted and p-fixed girls (and boys).

The IRS Code is so complex and befuddling when it comes to employee benefits that I am sure the megas know how to write it off. There are tax lawyers whose entire job is to game that one section of the code.

[hyzmarca]

How... Isn't that basically how organized crime works?

I mean, last time I checked paying for sex is illegal. I mean, sure, killing a prostitute is a bit more serious. But it's a matter of degrees. You walk into a mob brothel, you expect to deal with the mob.

Organized crime is a business. Like any business, it rises and falls with public confidence. If you make tires that randomly explode, then word gets around and you lose a great deal of business even if you fix the problem. If you make toys with lead paint on them, word gets around and you lose business. If you make toys that are converted into a recreational drug in the digestive system, word gets around and yo lose the business of parents while gaining business from stoners.

If you blackmail your customers then word will get around and no one will frequent your establishment anymore. Come on now. No. They'll use use the prostitution as an chance to set up meetings and offer bribes, but they won't threaten to go public. That just isn't kosher. There is just enough honor among thieves to keep the money flowing. No one does business with narcs or stoolies. The mere treat of narcing is enough to get people killed in organized crime circles.

[DocTaotsu]

I have to agree with the belief that most "mainstream" bunraku parlors tightly adhere to stringent privacy policies (I'd imagine this includes recording your own "sessions", unless you're willing to pay an extra fee). Like many things in SR, I'm sure you pay through the nose for that privacy, but it's there and it's guaranteed by free market economics. Now if you choose to go to one of those cut rate places down the street… all bets are off. You certainly get what you pay for in the 6th world.

I’m sure there are breaches to privacy every once in awhile but I’m sure that organized crime tries to avoid that because it’ll drive away customers for awhile. This is not to say that organized crime wouldn’t sell you down the river if the numbers were right. It’s just that I doubt that your day to day john gets screwed and the people paying the big bucks are probably treated like Las Vegas high rollers.

I’m also not at all sure that paying for sex is illegal anymore, or illegal in all districts. Japanese enclaves would almost certainly have legalized prostitution in one form or another and the Yak’s would hand wave the rest. Also, when compared to all the other terrible crap that’s happening out there, I doubt Lone Star or KE really gives two hoots about your average street walker or “reputable” bun-parlor (they have all their bribes paid up). I’m sure they bust out some of the lesser parlors and occasionally round up the hookers, but that’s for the press and has very little with actually cutting back on crime.

[mfb]

There is just enough honor among thieves to keep the money flowing. No one does business with narcs or stoolies. The mere treat of narcing is enough to get people killed in organized crime circles.

narcing on each other, sure. but we're talking about customers, here--and moreover, it's not really narcing. you're not going to send that video of a Councilman strangling a hooker to LS--you're going to send it to his wife. and you're not going to do it to every important guy who darkens your whore--er, door. you're just going to do it to a few key guys who can get you what you want, and you're going to pay them for their troubles so that it feels more like corruption and less like blackmail.

any person of import who is dumb enough to walk into a bunraku parlor is going to get recorded. if they're less dumb, they keep things as anonymous as possible--slap on a quick nanopaste disguise, use black cred, get their doll delivered to a hotel instead of actually going into the parlor themselves.

even if you accept that there's honor among thieves, the johns that use a bunraku parlor aren't thieves--they're the guys the thieves are preying on. even among other thieves, most thieves don't leave their wallets unattended, y'know? sure, the fact that your average bunraku parlor records everything that goes on isn't going to be something they advertise; they're going to act discreet. but in reality, having proof of who'se fucking who (or what) is power and potential profit, and the syndicates that run the parlors would be fools to not take advantage of it.

[JBlades]

Bunraku and hooker snuff. I remember now why this my favorite forum.
*sighs contentedly*

[Rasumichin]

any person of import who is dumb enough to walk into a bunraku parlor is going to get recorded.

Even if this is the case, this doesn't mean they can do regular blackmailing on their customers.
The yaks might resort to it, but only in the rarest cases, only when they can gain notable advantages from it and only if more cooperative methods (from free drinks to free...well, whatever) do not work out to the intended degree.

A different policy would quickly become harmful to their business.

[hyzmarca]

Why would they send it to the wife. The wife already knows that he strangles hookers. The wife always knows. Always. If she puts up with it she does so because she doesn't care or because she cares about the marriage more. In fact, she probably gets her jollies castrating young boys and forcing them to eat their own testicles. And they probably talk about it. "Hey honey, how was your day?." "Great - I strangled a hooker to death while sodomizing her; how about you?" "Wonderful, I castrated a teenage boy and then forced him to cook and eat his own severed testicles." "How about we go see a movie Saturday?". To blackmail a politician with something so trivial as strangling a hooker, you have to send it to the press, not his wife. His wife would forgive if she's so stupid that she doesn't already know.

[mfb]

To blackmail a politician with something so trivial as strangling a hooker, you have to send it to the press, not his wife. His wife would forgive if she's so stupid that she doesn't already know.

the man's got a point.

Even if this is the case, this doesn't mean they can do regular blackmailing on their customers.
The yaks might resort to it, but only in the rarest cases, only when they can gain notable advantages from it and only if more cooperative methods (from free drinks to free...well, whatever) do not work out to the intended degree.

A different policy would quickly become harmful to their business.

see, here's the thing: the only way it could become harmful to their business is if people found out about it. but who's going to tell? they guys running the parlor obviously aren't going to talk about the fact that they blackmail some of their customers. the customers being blackmailed aren't going to tell anyone, because they want to keep their secrets hidden--that's the whole point of blackmail, after all. the customers who aren't being blackmailed aren't going to talk, because they don't know. that's the great thing about blackmail: it keeps itself secret.

[DocTaotsu]

I suppose you're right about blackmail keeping itself secret but I tend to think that people worthy of being blackmailed either:
A. Avoid the situation all together by various flavors of subterfuge.
B. Pay high privacy charges which amount to Pre-blackmail (Pay us 10 grand upfront and we say nothing of your particular Gorean kink).

Now if you're a person who has horrendously under estimated your wealth to the people who run bunraku parlors, well now, you're in for a world of hurt. If the profit is worth risk and long term consequence, I'm sure org crime will take a stab at it (punny!).

[mfb]

I suppose you're right about blackmail keeping itself secret but I tend to think that people worthy of being blackmailed either:
A. Avoid the situation all together by various flavors of subterfuge.
B. Pay high privacy charges which amount to Pre-blackmail (Pay us 10 grand upfront and we say nothing of your particular Gorean kink).

oh, absolutely. like i said, any person of import who is dumb enough to walk into a bunraku parlor...

[hyzmarca]

But if they do blackmail someone, they'll lose his word-of-mouth advertising and he's likely to tell all of his friends and colleagues who frequent the same parlor about it. They'll then tell their friends and colleges and so on and so fourth. When brothels cater to high-class clients all of their clients have a tendency to know each other. And, hell, visiting a brothel can very easily be a team event.

[mfb]

well, again, it's not like they're going to be blackmailing every Tom, Dick, and Harry that walks in. scope the target, see how much he'd actually lose if your tape gets out to the right people--if he stands to lose enough, he's not going to tell anyone about his experience. you're probably not going to slip him your business card when you show up, either--he might suspect the parlor's management is behind the blackmail, but he'll also suspect all of his many enemies.

and, again, don't make it feel too much like blackmail. show him the reasonably-sized chunk of black cred you're offering for whatever favor it is you're after--and then flash him a few seconds of the tape when he tries to refuse your generous offer. and then drop the subject of the tape! play up the carrot, not the stick.

[Kanada Ten]

Why am I picturing a plethora of Bunraku Sim Nodes popping up across the Trix, where people pay to experience the puppet's body and mind live. Even having two or more puppets simrigged and skillwired performing sans John, where payees can direct the action while getting juiced from polyPOV feedback... That might even be legal. Unless you jack the feed up to BTL levels, obviously.

This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: Feb 12 2008, 05:34 AM

[mfb]

and why wouldn't you?

the worst (best?) idea i've had concerning the future of prostitution is high-end Lolita-types who go through gene therapy keep themselves 12 years old, physically. i'm honestly not sure if that's worse or better than actual 12-year-old hookers.

[Critias]

That one's been around since (at least) Hardwired. The razorgirl's hooker brother was in his mid-twenties, IIRC, but looked to be early/mid teens, 'cause that's what customers wanted.

[DocTaotsu]

I'd wonder how popular that would be, although I'm sure there would be a market for it. Most of the kiddie loving crazies I've read seem to think that a childs "purity" is more important to their physical body. As such you'd have to be a damn good actor/actress (or have good wires) to recreate the necessary uhm... enviroment for them to get off.

Of course that could just be their cover for the fact that they like prepubescent bodies.

I also feel obligated to make a dwarf joke in here somewhere... but I can't muster the courage.

[hyzmarca]

Well, I've been watching Cathouse: The Series, and I must say that prostitution looks like a very cool job. Prostitutes basically get paid to party half the day. It's like a dream job. No wonder its illegal. If it wasn't then no one would ever do anything else and the entire economy would collapse.

Given the amount of money a brothel brings in in a day, the house could cover the costs of cosmetic surgery and cyberware implants without the slightest bit of difficulty. But the house probably won't cover those costs, the prostitutes, being considered independent contractors, probably will. They also make enough money in a day to cover it, however.

One interesting thing that I've learned from this television series is that the people who pay the most money are the ones who don't want sex. Why pay $100 for 15 minutes of sex with a woman when you can pay $800 to watch her brush her hair?
I've also learned that many men who visit brothels just want someone to talk to and spend time with. Some people even frequent brothels to play chess.

Apparently, going to a brothel is, today, like going to a strip club was a decade ago. Its no big deal, perfectly socially acceptable for a married man to do so. Many men even bring their wives and girlfriends with them for some fun. In fact, there was this one couple who were having a joint bachelor party at the brothel. They wanted some place where both his friends and her friends would be comfortable. A brothel was an ideal choice. They also had their wedding at the brothel the next day. Grizley Adams performed the ceremony.

[DocTaotsu]

I'm fairly sure that such an uh... enlightened business model probably exists in 2070 (prostitutes as barbers, they pay rent on a room but are responsible for providing all the "equipment"). With all the money they make though, they'd probably attract org crime and even corps like flies, it's probably pretty hard to remain an independent house of ill repute. That actually might make for a nice grey/white hat plot hook, kinda like that episode of Firefly.

I'd also like to ask the forum in general. How many of you know people who frequent prostitution and do so for reasons other than quick mindless sex? I agree that many people are just looking for some company but I'd be curious to see what fraction of business they represent.

[mfb]

Well, I've been watching Cathouse: The Series, and I must say that prostitution looks like a very cool job. Prostitutes basically get paid to party half the day. It's like a dream job.

funny, i never pegged you as the type to go for gritty, hard-hitting, realistic shows like that.

I'd also like to ask the forum in general. How many of you know people who frequent prostitution and do so for reasons other than quick mindless sex? I agree that many people are just looking for some company but I'd be curious to see what fraction of business they represent.

well, if you count the GIs who fall in love with some juicy juice girl, i'd say... some? less than five percent.

[DocTaotsu]

Well if you discount GI's you're discounting like 80 percent of total prostitution sales in some areas.

[mfb]

heh, at least.

[Rasumichin]

I'm fairly sure that such an uh... enlightened business model probably exists in 2070 (prostitutes as barbers, they pay rent on a room but are responsible for providing all the "equipment"). With all the money they make though, they'd probably attract org crime and even corps like flies, it's probably pretty hard to remain an independent house of ill repute.

That's how it works in Germany.
See, prostitution is legal here, even though being a pimp isn't.
So, take Europe's biggest brothel, the Pasha in Cologne.
As far as i've heard, the whole house (a highrise with about 10 stories or more) is based upon the hookers "renting" appartments for, iirc, 200 € a day, the rest of the business being conducted by themselves.
Profitable enough for everyone involved, though not profitable enough for some.

We still have problems with human trade/ sexual slavery, just as before.
The situation might have eased up for "honorable" businesses, it definitely is better for the girls involved in such enterprises, but that has not changed much about the seedier aspects of the whole sex trade.
A few years ago, there was also a gang war over here in Cologne, with two gangs of bouncers forcing girls into prostitution bashing heads with each other.