rescue tool, yea right ;), for those days when a troll "dooropener" just isnt enough! Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[hobgoblin]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/24/raytheo...concrete-to-sa/

now, if it can do that to a concrete wall (non-reinforced by the looks of it) i wonder what it can do to your everyday door (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[kzt]

Why bother? In SR, three 9mm holes allows you to stroll on in through the obliterated door. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[hobgoblin]

hmm, now thats a very weak door. or a very strong bullet...

[kzt]

hmm, now thats a very weak door. or a very strong bullet...

Door is 6/7. I shoot it with my Aries Predator. I aim for 3 actions, as I have skill of 5 and I'm in a hurry. Then I roll 3+5+5(agil)+2. Average of 5 hits, plus 5 for DV of 10. This exceeded the 6 armor value.

Barrier gets 12 dice against an adjusted DV of 2+5. 12 dice gives 4 success, so door takes 3 structure. Bang, Bang, Bang and a 2 meter hole appears in the door in a bit under 6 seconds.

[Jhaiisiin]

The destroying barriers rules are a little wonky for that reason. A person literally running through a door should open up a 1-2 meter hole. A 9mm bullet shouldn't do much more than punch a 2 inch hole in the door. Unless you plan on perforating the door and then knocking out the hole, there's no way a pistol should be opening up 1-2 meter holes in any barrier.

[Ed_209a]

Door is 6/7. I shoot it with my Aries Predator. I aim for 3 actions, as I have skill of 5 and I'm in a hurry. Then I roll 3+5+5(agil)+2. Average of 5 hits, plus 5 for DV of 10. This exceeded the 6 armor value.

Barrier gets 12 dice against an adjusted DV of 2+5. 12 dice gives 4 success, so door takes 3 structure. Bang, Bang, Bang and a 2 meter hole appears in the door in a bit under 6 seconds.

If I were the GM, I would rule that the 3 9mm holes were all in the lock, and the 2m hole was from you pushing the now-unlocked door open.

[hobgoblin]

err, a firearm does 2+hits in damage, not dv+hits, see table on page 158.

that would result in a damage of 7, not 10.

still, that dont help much as a door is listed as cheap material 2/3 (unless its made of hardwood, then its heavy material or 6/7).

[Jhaiisiin]

Except that if you use said 3 bullets on low-rated wall, you get the same effect, but no door to use to justify it.

[Zolhex]

Another site to look at

Pics and video

I have a friend who works for the company I told him there was chat on DS about it he linked me these might be different from what's already up.

[Dr. John Desmond]

http://www.botachtactical.com/parhooltool.html.

This worked well enough for me in Iraq. Sometimes you don't need fance to get a job done.
And when in doubt never overlook a shotgun at the lock. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Critias]

Why bother? In SR, three 9mm holes allows you to stroll on in through the obliterated door. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

My only nitpick is that I've never considered an Ares Predator (or other heavy pistols) to be 9mm. Other than that, I agree with your criticism, trust me.

[BRodda]

Door is 6/7. I shoot it with my Aries Predator. I aim for 3 actions, as I have skill of 5 and I'm in a hurry. Then I roll 3+5+5(agil)+2. Average of 5 hits, plus 5 for DV of 10. This exceeded the 6 armor value.

Barrier gets 12 dice against an adjusted DV of 2+5. 12 dice gives 4 success, so door takes 3 structure. Bang, Bang, Bang and a 2 meter hole appears in the door in a bit under 6 seconds.

I alway thought that makes sense. 2 shots for the hinges and one to the lock and the door would just fall over. Never pictured it as plowing a 2 meter hole, even though that is what the rules state.

[Critias]

I alway thought that makes sense. 2 shots for the hinges and one to the lock and the door would just fall over. Never pictured it as plowing a 2 meter hole, even though that is what the rules state.

Not with a pistol, it wouldn't. A shotgun? Yeah, it's more likely.

But there's a reason door breachers in SWAT teams carry battering rams and stuff, and it's not just to look cool. You don't often see SWAT and military guys cleaning houses by whipping out a handgun to shoot a door off the doorframe, do you?

[Ed_209a]

Except that if you use said 3 bullets on low-rated wall, you get the same effect, but no door to use to justify it.

Yeah, I got nothing there.

I'd have to invoke rule zero in that case.

[BRodda]

Not with a pistol, it wouldn't. A shotgun? Yeah, it's more likely.

But there's a reason door breachers in SWAT teams carry battering rams and stuff, and it's not just to look cool. You don't often see SWAT and military guys cleaning houses by whipping out a handgun to shoot a door off the doorframe, do you?

With a Streetline special, probably not. With a Predator II, I can see that. And lets face it the Predator is a little less obvious then the door ram. Still my preferred method of opening doors is still the troll foot. Lets face it, its the best all around tool there is, except for duct tape. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[PBTHHHHT]

Reminds me of the opening episode of the second season of Ghost in the Shell, the SWAT entry team had a battering ram with it's own pneumatic ram to give it an extra 'oomph' to the breach. Heh, the guy is wearing a Fairfax County uniform in the video, I wonder if they did the testing down here in Virginia.

[Moon-Hawk]

You don't often see SWAT and military guys cleaning houses by whipping out a handgun to shoot a door off the doorframe, do you?

And yet, you don't often see action movie heroes whipping out a battering ram to bust open a lock either, do you? Eh? Eh? (And yet secretly, I agree with you.)
Realistic: Battering ram.
Cinematic: Two shots into the lock. Notice they always fire two shots into the lock in the movies. Because if they only fired one, that would be unrealistic! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[jago668]

I can say that a single shot to a padlock won't always do the trick. We keep locks on all the gates to our pastures, and someone shot one years ago. The lock didn't come undone, and it still worked just fine. The hole looked like it was shot with a rifle of some kind. The hole wasn't real big like you would expect from a pistol round, more what you would expect from something like a smaller deer rifle. So hooray masterlock.

[Arethusa]

And yet, you don't often see action movie heroes whipping out a battering ram to bust open a lock either, do you? Eh? Eh? (And yet secretly, I agree with you.)
Realistic: Battering ram.
Cinematic: Two shots into the lock. Notice they always fire two shots into the lock in the movies. Because if they only fired one, that would be unrealistic! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

Two shots to the hinges and one to the lock. It works in real life. Battering rams are nice and more effective, but they're also cumbersome and in many cases impractical.

I can say that a single shot to a padlock won't always do the trick. We keep locks on all the gates to our pastures, and someone shot one years ago. The lock didn't come undone, and it still worked just fine. The hole looked like it was shot with a rifle of some kind. The hole wasn't real big like you would expect from a pistol round, more what you would expect from something like a smaller deer rifle. So hooray masterlock.

You don't shoot the lock. You shoot the door and lock falls off.

[Nightwalker450]

I can say that a single shot to a padlock won't always do the trick. We keep locks on all the gates to our pastures, and someone shot one years ago. The lock didn't come undone, and it still worked just fine. The hole looked like it was shot with a rifle of some kind. The hole wasn't real big like you would expect from a pistol round, more what you would expect from something like a smaller deer rifle. So hooray masterlock.

Hooray Mythbusters, they did a demonstration on this. And if I recall it took a pretty heavy weapon at short range to actually pop the padlock. And at that range with that weapon there's some serious risk of shrapnel.

[jago668]

You don't shoot the lock. You shoot the door and lock falls off.

I know people are talking about shooting doors (or hinges and locks). I was just putting a real life example in that I know is a fact. That a single shot to a lock won't always do the trick. So a shot to each hinge and the lock won't always work. I know the breaching rules in Shadowrun are fubar. They tend to be in most games. (Though if I remember right Exalted were a little better.)

[Arethusa]

I know people are talking about shooting doors (or hinges and locks). I was just putting a real life example in that I know is a fact. That a single shot to a lock won't always do the trick. So a shot to each hinge and the lock won't always work. I know the breaching rules in Shadowrun are fubar. They tend to be in most games. (Though if I remember right Exalted were a little better.)

Ah, true. Box o' Truth had a pretty thing on this, actually.

[Nightwalker450]

From: MythBusters

Big Trouble in Little China: A lock can be broken by shooting it with handguns.

busted

The 9mm pistol and the .357 Magnum failed to open either the padlocks or the deadbolts.

A lock can be broken by shooting it with shotgun slugs or high-powered rifle ammunition.

plausible

Both types of ammunition were able to disable the locks by completely obliterating them. However, the MythBusters note that this lock-busting method would be very dangerous in real life due to ricochet or spalling. Because of this hazard, military and SWAT units use a special shotgun cartridge called a Breaching round to break through doors.

[kzt]

Two shots to the hinges and one to the lock. It works in real life.

Not for pistols. I think it was the Box of Truth that tried it, but pistols suck for this. Shotguns work well for most doors.

[hobgoblin]

http://www.botachtactical.com/parhooltool.html

This worked well enough for me in Iraq. Sometimes you don't need fance to get a job done.
And when in doubt never overlook a shotgun at the lock. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

fixed the link (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)