http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/24/raytheo...concrete-to-sa/

now, if it can do that to a concrete wall (non-reinforced by the looks of it) i wonder what it can do to your everyday door

Why bother? In SR, three 9mm holes allows you to stroll on in through the obliterated door.

hmm, now thats a very weak door. or a very strong bullet...

Door is 6/7. I shoot it with my Aries Predator. I aim for 3 actions, as I have skill of 5 and I'm in a hurry. Then I roll 3+5+5(agil)+2. Average of 5 hits, plus 5 for DV of 10. This exceeded the 6 armor value.

Barrier gets 12 dice against an adjusted DV of 2+5. 12 dice gives 4 success, so door takes 3 structure. Bang, Bang, Bang and a 2 meter hole appears in the door in a bit under 6 seconds.

The destroying barriers rules are a little wonky for that reason. A person literally running through a door should open up a 1-2 meter hole. A 9mm bullet shouldn't do much more than punch a 2 inch hole in the door. Unless you plan on perforating the door and then knocking out the hole, there's no way a pistol should be opening up 1-2 meter holes in any barrier.

If I were the GM, I would rule that the 3 9mm holes were all in the lock, and the 2m hole was from you pushing the now-unlocked door open.

err, a firearm does 2+hits in damage, not dv+hits, see table on page 158.

that would result in a damage of 7, not 10.

still, that dont help much as a door is listed as cheap material 2/3 (unless its made of hardwood, then its heavy material or 6/7).

Except that if you use said 3 bullets on low-rated wall, you get the same effect, but no door to use to justify it.

Another site to look at

Pics and video

I have a friend who works for the company I told him there was chat on DS about it he linked me these might be different from what's already up.

http://www.botachtactical.com/parhooltool.html.

This worked well enough for me in Iraq. Sometimes you don't need fance to get a job done.
And when in doubt never overlook a shotgun at the lock.

My only nitpick is that I've never considered an Ares Predator (or other heavy pistols) to be 9mm. Other than that, I agree with your criticism, trust me.

I alway thought that makes sense. 2 shots for the hinges and one to the lock and the door would just fall over. Never pictured it as plowing a 2 meter hole, even though that is what the rules state.

Not with a pistol, it wouldn't. A shotgun? Yeah, it's more likely.

But there's a reason door breachers in SWAT teams carry battering rams and stuff, and it's not just to look cool. You don't often see SWAT and military guys cleaning houses by whipping out a handgun to shoot a door off the doorframe, do you?

Yeah, I got nothing there.

I'd have to invoke rule zero in that case.

With a Streetline special, probably not. With a Predator II, I can see that. And lets face it the Predator is a little less obvious then the door ram. Still my preferred method of opening doors is still the troll foot. Lets face it, its the best all around tool there is, except for duct tape.

Reminds me of the opening episode of the second season of Ghost in the Shell, the SWAT entry team had a battering ram with it's own pneumatic ram to give it an extra 'oomph' to the breach. Heh, the guy is wearing a Fairfax County uniform in the video, I wonder if they did the testing down here in Virginia.

And yet, you don't often see action movie heroes whipping out a battering ram to bust open a lock either, do you? Eh? Eh? (And yet secretly, I agree with you.)
Realistic: Battering ram.
Cinematic: Two shots into the lock. Notice they always fire two shots into the lock in the movies. Because if they only fired one, that would be unrealistic!

I can say that a single shot to a padlock won't always do the trick. We keep locks on all the gates to our pastures, and someone shot one years ago. The lock didn't come undone, and it still worked just fine. The hole looked like it was shot with a rifle of some kind. The hole wasn't real big like you would expect from a pistol round, more what you would expect from something like a smaller deer rifle. So hooray masterlock.

Two shots to the hinges and one to the lock. It works in real life. Battering rams are nice and more effective, but they're also cumbersome and in many cases impractical.


You don't shoot the lock. You shoot the door and lock falls off.

Hooray Mythbusters, they did a demonstration on this. And if I recall it took a pretty heavy weapon at short range to actually pop the padlock. And at that range with that weapon there's some serious risk of shrapnel.

I know people are talking about shooting doors (or hinges and locks). I was just putting a real life example in that I know is a fact. That a single shot to a lock won't always do the trick. So a shot to each hinge and the lock won't always work. I know the breaching rules in Shadowrun are fubar. They tend to be in most games. (Though if I remember right Exalted were a little better.)

Ah, true. Box o' Truth had a pretty thing on this, actually.

From: MythBusters

Not for pistols. I think it was the Box of Truth that tried it, but pistols suck for this. Shotguns work well for most doors.

fixed the link

I was paging through a fire fighter supply catalog the other day (looking for items to add to my anti-zombie kit) and I came upon what amounts to a concrete lightsaber. Near as I could tell it's a ceramic or metal rod that gets heated up to "yes" and used to poke holes and/or slice through concrete, not sure how effective it is but there were several models. I'll try to dig up that supply book tomorrow and give you all an actual name.

thermal lance?

http://www.krl.com.au/whatisalance.htm

hm... that looks about right, the one I saw was much shorter and had a handle/splash guard, but I think it's the same gear.

Thank you much, the ways of the HTML escape me especially when i am headed out the door.

Well I can't find the exact listing but that's basically it. Now go out there and hit a troll with one