CGL Speculation #8, Put on your asbestos underwear Options

[Lithium]

During the live chat, I asked Jason that very question, and in particular whether all sales had to cease with the cessation of the licence at the end of May.

Jason announced that as far as he was aware, the licence extends through to mid June.

So I guess we won't see any official action, barring some big announcement from Catalyst, for the next two weeks or so.

[Taharqa]

If I do not hear an official statement today, I believe CGL has lost the license. For all we know, the license ends today, and considering the last "good news" released by CGL , they would not hold back on a confirmation of renewal!

I think that is jumping the gun. While I would love to know the answer by tomorrow, I think its likely that we may not hear immediately one way or another. Topps is under no requirement to award the license by June 1 and they may decide to hold off on a final decision until well past that date. Even if the license has been granted, whoever was awarded it may want to get some if its internal ducks in a row before making an announcement.

[Kid Chameleon]

Well, today's is a national holiday in the US, most folks are out BBQing.

[knasser]

Ever wonder why a mod needs a different color when posting?

The moderators are specifically screened and chosen for their ability to perform their moderation duties yet still participate meaningfully on the boards.

If you have a problem with any single moderator you can report them to the moderation team. We're human, we make mistakes, and are subject to Warnings and bans just like everyone else.

If you have a problem with the post, you can report that to the moderating team and it will be reviewed by the entire moderating team.

If you have a problem with the board moderation in general you can start a thread in the appropriate forum.

If you have a problem with a moderator because they have an opinion different then yours, and thus you think they shouldn't be a moderator, then you're going to end up having problems with all the moderators. Not because they all disagree with you, but because they'll have a different opinion then yours at some point.

"So and So has opinion X which is clearly wrong so they are not fit for duty Y" is an argument many people should be all too familiar with, especially when "opinion X" might have no relation whatsoever to what is required to perform "duty Y"

I'm of the opinion that in heated debates, one of the moderators that isn't a participant should be doing any required moderation and ones that are actively arguing for one side should leave off moderation duties for that thread. Thus all moderators can have opinions and participate, and no mod needs to be put in the position of assessing the behaviour of someone they are currently having an argument with. That's fairly straight forward to me and a good principle.

Anyway, I believe I have made my point. Whether you value it or not has nothing further to do with it needing greater explanation, so I'm done with this tangent (I hope).

K.

[knasser]

I think that is jumping the gun. While I would love to know the answer by tomorrow, I think its likely that we may not hear immediately one way or another. Topps is under no requirement to award the license by June 1 and they may decide to hold off on a final decision until well past that date. Even if the license has been granted, whoever was awarded it may want to get some if its internal ducks in a row before making an announcement.

I honestly can't see any good reason why CGL would hold back from announcing a renewal of the licence and I can see several good reasons why they would announce it. For a start it would help with engaging freelancers for work. I would expect they would want to let creditors know as it would be a way of saying "hold off - we're good if you just give us a few months". Distributors would need to know. Even if they don't make an announcement here (and I imagine Jason Hardy would let off a sigh of relief if he could make such an announcement), then I would expect it to leak here pretty quickly. In the thread over at the Gamer's Den (or whatever it is called), FrankTrollman believes one of the posters is actually LLC under a pseudonym and if so, we'd probably see some comment about it there.

So for the above reasons, I think that if we don't here anything from CGL, it more likely means they don't have the licence than that they do. Unless anyone can think of any reasons to do with the bankrupcy case / other legal proceedings why they would want to keep it under wraps.

K.

[Doc Byte]

And nitpicking, but RC isnt a Core book, or is it?

Well, my RC bears a "Core Character Rulebook" on the cover.

[Adam]

Catalyst's official opinion on "Core book" was "Core books get published as hardcovers."

[Cheops]

Well, my RC bears a "Core Character Rulebook" on the cover.

Mr. T says: "I pity the fool that actually uses Runner's Companion as a core rulebook. That book should be thrown hella far."

Good work on the ED3 however.

[RunnerPaul]

Catalyst's official opinion on "Core book" was "Core books get published as hardcovers."

Which is shitty because it leaves out Running Wild.

[Czar Eggbert]

I know I'm the Mad Lurker what Lurks at Midnight, but there are some here that may remember me. I've been a fan of SR since SR1, and I've been a member of Shadowland, ShadowRN, and dumpshock. I may not get to play anymore, but I do enjoy reading the books. I think that the biggest problem with CGL keeping the licence is that they will have to train a whole new crew of writers. They have pissed off just about everyone on their freelance staff, and most of the people that really grok what Shadowrun is all about. Just look at this forum, I mean Dumpshock is a sort of SuperFan haven. Many, if not most, of the writers over the past decade have come from here or other Shadowrun forums, and thats the way it should be, but now CGL has a very negitive reputation here, and just about anywhere on the internet. Who is going to want to start working at a company that has this negitive rep with their current freelancers? And, with the true fans of the game shying away from writing, what sort of quality will we get out of not fans? This is what worries me. I really don't want people that do not LOVE this game writing for it. I don't want people who do not PLAY writing. I have seen too many people I gained respect for leave CGL to still respect them: Adam, DE, Pistons, and AH to name a few. As a SuperFan I hope that CGL does not get the licence, because I feel that they can not handle it. I would love to see SR in the hands of Jay and Bobby.

Eggy

[Adam]

Holy shit, Eggbert, long time no see! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Taharqa]

I honestly can't see any good reason why CGL would hold back from announcing a renewal of the licence and I can see several good reasons why they would announce it.

You kind of missed my point. Topps might not hand down the decision as of June 1, one way or the other.

[Demonseed Elite]

Holy shit, Eggbert, long time no see! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Seriously! I think he surfaces once every few years around here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Heya CE!

[Method]

Well, my RC bears a "Core Character Rulebook" on the cover.

Doc, did you build a shrine to your Runner's Companion? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Doc Byte]

Doc, did you build a shrine to your Runner's Companion? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Not exactly. I was participating in a photo competition. The guideline was to combine "RPG", "one pair" and "Christmas". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[JongWK]

I honestly can't see any good reason why CGL would hold back from announcing a renewal of the licence and I can see several good reasons why they would announce it.

It's Memorial Day, and thus highly unlikely that there is anyone working at Topps or CGL.

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row...

[Dread Moores]

I honestly can't see any good reason why CGL would hold back from announcing a renewal of the licence and I can see several good reasons why they would announce it.

Because Topps may not have made a decision yet? I'm not arguing whether CGL should get the license or not. Simply that it's a good reason why there would be no announcement. Do we even have any kind of confirmation that Topps needs to actually make a decision by the time existing license expires (perhaps mid-June per the information from the chat)? Who's to say they may not take more time (for making a decision, for reviewing CGL's management/finances, whatever) and simply put things in limbo for a week, two...a month. I certainly hope it isn't the case, but do we actually have anything to indicate that June is when we'll actually hear about it? Now, a good reason why CGL would hold back after a decision has been made? No clue.

[Cthulhudreams]

Yeah - that's Knassers point.

The only reason CGL won't annouce they have the license is because they don't have it yet.

[knasser]

Yeah - that's Knassers point.

The only reason CGL won't annouce they have the license is because they don't have it yet.

Exactly (and thank you). As to mid-June, I don't know, but I'd say it's pretty harsh business practice to let a company know whether or not they're going to retain the licence on the day it expires. Can someone confirm when the licence actually expires? Because I'd expect CGL to know before that actual day. I mean what would they do otherwise? Race round their distributors telling them to stop selling asap? Rush across the office and yank the plug out of the Battleshop computer? You can't plan a business around that sort of last second decision making. If the licence actually expires mid-June, then there's a fair chance they already know whether they've got it or not, though given the unusual nature of all this, it might go a bit closer to the deadline before a decision is made than you'd see otherwise, e.g. to give CGL a chance to finalise cashflow plans. But licence uncertainty isn't in Topps interests once they're past the bidding stage, because uncertainty translates into poor product release schedules.

K.

[Dread Moores]

Can someone confirm when the licence actually expires?

Well, just going by the prior post and what I saw in the chat transcript, I can offer this up.

During the live chat, I asked Jason that very question, and in particular whether all sales had to cease with the cessation of the licence at the end of May.

Jason announced that as far as he was aware, the licence extends through to mid June.

So I guess we won't see any official action, barring some big announcement from Catalyst, for the next two weeks or so.

[Dread Moores]

If the licence actually expires mid-June, then there's a fair chance they already know whether they've got it or not, though given the unusual nature of all this, it might go a bit closer to the deadline before a decision is made than you'd see otherwise, e.g. to give CGL a chance to finalise cashflow plans. But licence uncertainty isn't in Topps interests once they're past the bidding stage, because uncertainty translates into poor product release schedules.

Yeah, that's kind of my thinking. I really don't expect to hear anything (from Topps or CGL or whoever) until much closer to the end of June. Also, in regards to poor product release schedules, I thought we already had that? That's not convincing me that Topps couldn't just sit on it for a while. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Fuchs]

Spoiler tags since it concerns future (meta)plots:

[ Spoiler ]

But right now, we're talking about a Harlequin centered plot called "The Corruption Master" which was... really bad. Like, worse than making a Spy Games book about the Ute performing political machinations about the fate of Denver without doing anything about Ghost Walker (which was yes, Jason Hardy's actual plan for that book). This plotline was a shallow retread of the Thultanthar plotline from the Forgotten Realms.

How close a copypasta? Well, imagine for the moment that a flying city from a previous age of magic returns from an alternate dimension having escaped the cataclysm that had destroyed the old empire, but the residents are corrupted by their sojourn in the shadow realm and now they are all shadowy and evil - but still very magically powerful. Thy have spent over a thousand years in a shadow realm fighting shadowy horrors and they have become tainted by the process and have now returned to world to reconquer it with their mighty ancient sorceries. But first they are going to send secret agents around to gather artifacts of the ancient magical empire. That close a copypasta. Basically you just substitute the word "Thera" for "Netheril" and you're good.

Is that true? Was CGL really planning to have Thera return?

[Stahlseele]

Well . . with the DOTA, wasn't that more or less to be expected?

[Cthulhudreams]

Exactly (and thank you). As to mid-June, I don't know, but I'd say it's pretty harsh business practice to let a company know whether or not they're going to retain the licence on the day it expires. Can someone confirm when the licence actually expires? Because I'd expect CGL to know before that actual day. I mean what would they do otherwise? Race round their distributors telling them to stop selling asap? Rush across the office and yank the plug out of the Battleshop computer? You can't plan a business around that sort of last second decision making. If the licence actually expires mid-June, then there's a fair chance they already know whether they've got it or not, though given the unusual nature of all this, it might go a bit closer to the deadline before a decision is made than you'd see otherwise, e.g. to give CGL a chance to finalise cashflow plans. But licence uncertainty isn't in Topps interests once they're past the bidding stage, because uncertainty translates into poor product release schedules.

K.

Yeah, I'd suggest that the longer CGL hasn't made the annoucement, the less likely that CGL has got it. It's no skin of Topps nose if CGL has to pulp a bunch of books - particularly if they are giving the license to someone else. However, if Topps wants to continue with CGL they need to resolve this issue early so CGL doesn't fold in the transition.

Also, the longer the audit takes the more likely it will turn up an adverse finding, because if the auditors don't find any irregularities, they will stop. If they find stuff that warrants further investigation, they can justify more billable hours.

Overall, for CGL, the longer this takes to resolve the more likely they are to lose the license and collapse - due to Coleman's bad management practices and fraud.

[Big Freaky Sean]

Spoiler tags since it concerns future (meta)plots:

Really??? Did anyone tell the powers that be that the storyline was bad? If so what was the reaction?