German Arsenal 2070 and BodyTech (Augmentation), Anyone willing to translate and post some new stuff? Options

[Sengir]

Synner and other developers/writers.

...obviously dropped the idea, otherwise it would be reflected in Bodytech like all other errata

And that second-hand alphaware is the biggest reason that this change is nessecary, its totally bongers that you get implants that cost less essence on same nuyen prise bys gettin used alpha instead of new standart.

Only if you ignore the other problems of used ware.

[Mäx]

Only if you ignore the other problems of used ware.

We'll see if we ever actually get that english errata

Only if you ignore the other problems of used ware.

There really aren't any.

[Stahlseele]

And used alpha is STILL harder to spot than new standard grade right?

[Mäx]

And used alpha is STILL harder to spot than new standard grade right?

And has better device rating.

[Sengir]

We'll see if we ever actually get that english errata

Who knows, maybe some day it will show up on wikileaks...

There really aren't any.

Not by the numbers, no. Thank god PnP games are more than just numbers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And if you just go by the numbers, using the German cybersuite rules doesn't change anything:
Essence costs: 100% + 20%(used) - 20%(alpha) = 100%
Nuyen costs: 100% * 0.5(used) * 2(alpha) = 100%

Since detection, device rating and availability are better than new standard ware, used alpha would still be strictly better.

[Mäx]

And if you just go by the numbers, using the German cybersuite rules doesn't change anything:
Essence costs: 100% + 20%(used) - 20%(alpha) = 100%
Nuyen costs: 100% * 0.5(used) * 2(alpha) = 100%

Since detection, device rating and availability are better than new standard ware, used alpha would still be strictly better.

Yeah but all of those other thinks aren't nearly as bad as the cheaper essence cost, their mainly just icing on the cake.

[Udoshi]

...and you got this info from where? Except for suites, and even then only for essence costs, there is no rule which says "add up the cost multipliers". And the example for used alphaware uses correct math both in the German and English versions.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=18445

Look for posts by Synner.

Anyone got the Unofficial Errata thread for Unwired bookmarked?

[Cabral]

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=18445

Look for posts by Synner.

Anyone got the Unofficial Errata thread for Unwired bookmarked?

Thankfully I did not see any posts from Synner supporting this disrespectful treatment of multipliers. This is not an IMO; this is not 4th ed DnD; our brains are not mush and I have no desire to see this game dumbed down to the point that basic multiplication is a thing to be avoided. It's bad enough that Rigger 3 didn't use exponents.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not make messes in the house.

While a bit caustic for my tastes, I agree with the sentiment that math is a basic human function and to go to such lengths to avoid it, does a disservice to everyone.

[Mäx]

Thankfully I did not see any posts from Synner supporting this disrespectful treatment of multipliers.

Thats becouse he linked you to wrong thread, here's a correct link

[Udoshi]

Thats becouse he linked you to wrong thread, here's a correct link

Oh man, and the thread's just labeled 'augmentation'. No wonder i didn't find it with dumpshock's search function. Got any more of those bookmarks saved up, max?

[Mäx]

Oh man, and the thread's just labeled 'augmentation'. No wonder i didn't find it with dumpshock's search function. Got any more of those bookmarks saved up, max?

I dont use bookmarks, i'm alone and at work and dont feel like working so i just used the search matching to Synners name and showing as post until i found that quoted in an other topic and then i just searched that quote more specifically. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Cabral]

Thats becouse he linked you to wrong thread, here's a correct link

Well it looks like I am going to have to add "bad math" to the "Disallowed in Your Game" thread.

[Sengir]

Well it looks like I am going to have to add "bad math" to the "Disallowed in Your Game" thread.

If that was supposed to be official errata the German book should include it. It doesn't. Could be an oversight, but I consider it far more likely that the idea of adding together multipliers was only a temporal madness and got dropped real quick.

[Cabral]

One can only hope this never sees official print. The last time I mentioned the "writers can't do math trope", my wife looked like she was going to kill me.

[Mäx]

One can only hope this never sees official print. The last time I mentioned the "writers can't do math trope", my wife looked like she was going to kill me.

Its really not about, not beign able to do math.
Addition is just much faster and produses "nicer" numbers.
And i really hope this sees the light in the aug errata or they remove the used alpha.
And also addition is how other comining of discounts in the game are handelt too, like the ones to iniation cost.

[Sengir]

Addition is just much faster

Right, because you get new cyberware every other minute or so...

and produses "nicer" numbers.

Nope, see the example above

And i really hope this sees the light in the aug errata or they remove the used alpha.

Because a whopping 4% essence reduction at the price of giving the GM a free ticket to screw you up are totally gamebreaking

[Cabral]

Its really not about, not beign able to do math.
Addition is just much faster and produses "nicer" numbers.

It's about multiplication is scarier than addition (determined the fact that the formula will actually be more complicated).

Cost x .8 x .8 is simpler than Cost x (1 - (1 - .8 ) - (1 - .8 )) or even Cost x (1 - .2 - .2), particularly if you are entering this into a spreadsheet or calculator.

Don't introduce more opportunity for mathematical mistakes; keep the math simple and clean.

[Mäx]

It's about multiplication is scarier than addition (determined the fact that the formula will actually be more complicated).

Cost x .8 x .8 is simpler than Cost x (1 - (1 - .8 ) - (1 - .8 )) or even Cost x (1 - .2 - .2), particularly if you are entering this into a spreadsheet or calculator.

Cost*0,6 is even simpler.

[Cabral]

Cost*0,6 is even simpler.

Yes, if you're talking about betaware, otherwise you're skipping steps in your math. And Cost*.64 is equally simple.

[Mäx]

Yes, if you're talking about betaware, otherwise you're skipping steps in your math. And Cost*.64 is equally simple.

Calcualting for example 10+10+20=40 is a whole lot faster to do in your head(well in mine atlest) then 1*0,9*0,9*0,8=0,648

[KCKitsune]

I would like to know why a nano-biomonitor can't just take up capacity?

I mean you can have a nano-hive put in a cyberlimb, but you can't have a nano-biomonitor put in one? That was just dumb.

[Sengir]

Calcualting for example 10+10+20=40 is a whole lot faster to do in your head(well in mine atlest) then 1*0,9*0,9*0,8=0,648

Again, how often do you install new ware that those few seconds matter?