Improving Skills in Missions, I must have missed something. Options

[suoq]

If you want to willfully interpret a rule in a way that prevents you from advancing your character, that's fine by me.

Actually, what I'd like to do is stop cheating. Because, to the best of my knowledge, that's what I'm doing.

The problem with this is, I have to find out how the heck it's supposed to be done or at least figure out what rules everyone else is using.

To that end the tools I have are the books, the Missions rules, and this forum.

I can easily ignore the extended test rules for skills, just like I'm completely ignoring the vehicle and weapons modifications rules because I didn't take a mountain of logic and Armorer on this character and see no sane way to deal with the issue. Personally, I wouldn't mind ignoring the purchasing rule, but since I built this character for the sole purpose of dealing with that rule, I'm trying to at least do that right.

I know I need a new character for the next season. I just want to make sure that if Charisma, Logic, Intuition, Armorer, and Negotiation are, in fact, mandatory for Missions advancement, that that new character has them. If there's anything else the character is supposed to have, I'd like to make sure the character has that too before I start running him. In short, I'd like to make a character that can participate and advance in Missions by the same rules everyone else is using.

[SaintHax]

As a GM I am allowed to use my judgement, which would be to allow people to roll dice, if they really want, or accept the nice offer of a beer from the players and sign the sheet. Bull can fire me if he doesn't like it.

If you want to willfully interpret a rule in a way that prevents you from advancing your character, that's fine by me.

By "willfully interpret", you mean use the rules as written. I agree though and say ignore the rules that don't make sense, which is why I have. However, your first part does go against what was told to us (you were on this thread) by the previous head of SRM. I'd like to point that out to the GM's that don't want to cheat to have a good time, that GM's allowing an extended downtime test at the table is prohibited.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=821208

[Yerameyahu]

Let's bear in mind that we all *know* the correct solution is to just allow reasonable things. This thread, like the Broken Rules thread, is about the fact that the actual rules are in conflict with the common-sense solution. There's nothing wrong with discussing that regrettable state of affairs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) No one is 'willfully' crippling themselves.

[sgtbarnes_ky]

I think you guys are really overcomplicating things. For that last 3 years at both Origins/Gencon, I have never had to role to increase a skill, i just paid the karma cost and the GM signed the my character log. Yes it may be ignoring a RAW, but i would think after 3 years and 24 different Con events with my character someone would have told me to make a roll for omproving a skill, and no one has. So, Idon't think it's cheating, i think no one really cares, that you improve a skill by one inbetween a Mission, Big Whoop, And until you brought it up Souq, I think noone else really cared, the rule really doesnt hurt anything to be ignored. Your onlu getting so much Karma for a mission, so realistically you can only raise one or two skills inbetween missions, Oh Gawd No, I honestly think your making a Mountain out of a mole hill, just relax and have fun. Until, Bull or another official Catalyst Big Whig tells us different don't worry about it. Honestly, i think your ok, by just raising 1 skill by 1 inbetween a run, or adding a new skill, again, no Gm or Event coordinator in 3 years has ever tiold me no, you can not do that, it just doesnt seem to be that big of a deal.

[Yerameyahu]

Like I just said, we all *know* that you can ignore the rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Obviously, that's not the ideal situation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) It would be better if the actual rules worked properly, especially in a system like Missions.

[suoq]

I honestly think your making a Mountain out of a mole hill, just relax and have fun.

I agree that a mountain is being made out of a mole hill, but that was never my intention. My intention was to try and figure out what I should be doing.
Post 1: "Can someone walk me though this?"
Post 2: "I'd like to think I'm misunderstanding spending karma on skills as well."
Post 3: "Should I just be ignoring all of this stuff?"

If the answer to post 3 was "Yes, Yes you should be ignoring all this stuff.", then good.

However, I can see that what I'm doing to mod my gear (ignoring the rules completely) is very different from what KarmaInferno is doing to mod gear ("cheese-weasel my rigger character by buying Profession autosofts for her arm-equipped drones, just so I can make it a teamwork instead of solo test for the extra dice, to do even basic modifications to her vehicles"). So I know right then and there, I'm cheating and someone else is trying not to. I want to play this game without cheating, not for any moral reason, I just like to try and play by the rules first before I start to ignore/change them.

We then get into the extended test discussion, a discussion that the previous coordinator already weighed in on in another thread, which raises the options to:
1) Follow the rules and the previous coordinator's wishes.
2) Roll at the table, ignoring the previous coordinator's wishes.
3) Ignore the book, missions, and the previous coordinator's wishes, and do things the simple way.

As a result, I really don't think I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm just walking into this mountain that everyone else has been dealing with in their own way for the past coulple years and silly me, I'm a little confused because there wasn't any mountain on my map and any legal way past it that I could find. There are at least three different paths people are currently taking and have been taking.

Honestly, if it was up to me I'd gut the rules and write a guideline like this:

Karma: Just spend it. No extended tests, no time, no magical societies, no nothing needed.
Nuyen: If you have the pool to buy the item at the availability using the 4:1 rule*, just buy it, no time needed. Otherwise pay an extra 100 nuyen per point of availability for the cost of the broker.
Modding: If you have the tools (kit/shop/facility) and the pool to add the mod at the threshold using the 4:1 rule*, just mod it, no time needed. Otherwise pay an extra 100 nuyen per point of threshold for the cost of the mechanic.
Double the broker/mechanic cost if the item is Restricted. Quadruple the broker/mechanic cost if the item is Forbidden.

The above guideline rewards those who do have negotiation, armorer, etc. without keeping items beyond a character's reach unless they're a module reward. However, I don't know if that's a current goal of Missions. It certainly wasn't the goal the previous coordinator had in mind according to what I saw in that thread. And having never playtested it, I have no clue if it's balanced or not. But having stumbled upon this "mountain", that's where I personally would start if I wanted to make a new path.

* http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=27902 <- dice pools pre-calculated.

[Bull]

The ruling on this is a bit unclear, but I believe the intent was to provide a fair way to handle dice rolls when there was no GM available, or when the GM didn't have enough time due to constraints of the game. But, if there was a GM available you could roll and have him sign off on your Debriefing Log. That's how most of us handle it at the cons, anyway.

I'll clear this up and make this a solid rule for Season 4. I'm also going to look at making an exception for raising skills, because as noted, certain character types can get completely hosed trying to raise skills.

*adds one more thing to his notes for the FAQ*

Bull

[Wasabi]

Thanks, Bull!

[TranKirsaKali]

We then get into the extended test discussion, a discussion that the previous coordinator already weighed in on in another thread, which raises the options to:
1) Follow the rules and the previous coordinator's wishes.
2) Roll at the table, ignoring the previous coordinator's wishes.
3) Ignore the book, missions, and the previous coordinator's wishes, and do things the simple way.

When it comes to this part of your post the correct answer is to listen to Bull. He is the current coordinator and has realized there are problems in the rules. He is working on fixing them. I have been playing missions for 4 years now and have never had a GM tell me I could not increase my skill at the table. And I have played at MegaCon, GenCon and DragonCon. I have played with many types of GMs from across the board. And even the one GM that looked through my certs had no problem with signing the end log with me increasing skills. From what I have experienced and am seeing it looks like the consensus is that is a dumb rule we will not use it. As for the modification rules, well I don't use them. I don't mod things. That is for the gun bunnies to do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)