I miss the old feeling.. Options

[sabs]

There's very little in terms of tech that didn't survive the 3-to-4 transition, it feels like.

There are even tapper drones, handy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

tapper drones are awesome.

I did a touchless run using a pair of tapper drones to get around wireless suppression.

[CanRay]

I wish I could have known Shadowrun back in the day... *Sigh*

[Sengir]

tapper drones are awesome.

Yup, no more rummaging in the dust under raised floors. Just have the face drop one during his "I'm a potential investor, would you give me a short tour?" routine.

[Cheops]

Too bad the rules for all those don't specifically mention that they give you access to the system. Optical Tappers just allow you to monitor traffic between nodes with Intercept Traffic. All the drone does is set up an optical tap. No rules are given to indicate whether you can access the system through these or not. So house-ruled SR4 Splat books regain 1 piece that BBB had in SR3.

[Telion]

I really miss the aztec RPV and some of the larger ships. The RPV was my riggers favorite toy. Can't really convert it over either.

[silva]

What is a "tapper drone"?


(a drone that keeps tapping your back? WTF?)

[KarmaInferno]

It's a microdrone that carries equipment to tap into non-wireless networks.

From Unwired.

They have a picture of a mouse-sized buglike walker drone dragging an optical cable past a guard's feet.


-k

[Yerameyahu]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I thought it was clear from context, but it's a tiny drone with really one purpose: hook up an optical line tap, so you can Intercept Traffic over it.

Now, Cheops, you're right that the book doesn't explicitly say you can connect this way, but you can alter/insert your own traffic. That should be enough, in practical terms, to make a connection. The nodes involved might notice, but that's why it's a hacking action. Whether it amounts to RAW or not, I'm not arguing. Where exactly is 'Dataline Tap' in the SR3 core book, btw?

[Cheops]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I thought it was clear from context, but it's a tiny drone with really one purpose: hook up an optical line tap, so you can Intercept Traffic over it.

Now, Cheops, you're right that the book doesn't explicitly say you can connect this way, but you can alter/insert your own traffic. That should be enough, in practical terms, to make a connection. The nodes involved might notice, but that's why it's a hacking action. Whether it amounts to RAW or not, I'm not arguing. Where exactly is 'Dataline Tap' in the SR3 core book, btw?

Same thing but it specifically rules that it also serves as a Jackpoint which means that you log-on your session where ever you happen to be plugged in. They allow you to create illegal jackpoints. So if you tap into the telephone box on the street corner you get onto your LTG. If you tap into the main trunk coming out of a corporate facility you log into their Host. You'd still need to hack access or else you'd only have whatever public access was available. But it was very helpful for bypassing any potential matrix dungeons your GM had set up to secure the system. Downside was you usually needed to physically be on site because no one else had the skills/gear to hook it up for you.

Altering/insert traffic is very different than actually accessing a system. The best it could do for you in SR4 is get you the AID so that you can try to hack directly into the node you wanted. So you could bypass the matrix dungeons that Unwired re-introduced to solve the problem of nodes being easy to hack despite one of the design goals of SR4 being to get rid of the matrix dungeons.

Deckers perfectly illustrate another thing that irks me about SR4. There is very little room for advancement in your specialty and gear upgrades are so easy to get. It was always such a great feeling the first time your decker used an MPCP 10+ deck. Or your Sam/Rigger pulled out some SOTA new Mil-spec gun and blew someone away. Or when that last die stopped spinning and you realized your mage could now cast a Force 10+ spell. You felt like you'd taken a major step in your chosen field.

Now, everything is so easy to get (under the same restriction that existed in SR3 -- GM permission). Like I said up-thread, a top of the line commlink is something that can be TOSSED IN THE GARBAGE at only SLIGHT loss. We had Deckers and Riggers die in the past because they refused to abandon their gear. That 1.5 million nuyen deck was precious to them. Betaware was something that was REALLY hard to get and cost an arm and a leg (often literally).

And as a GM it was fun to also see this growth happen. I could take pleasure in their glee and blowing away my baddies with their brand new mortar, rocket launcher, military drone, or mega-spell. Challenges were more scalable by "cheating" and artificially inflating the TN to make things difficult for them. There were never situations where success was impossible -- everyone had a CHANCE. Sure, you ended up with crazy stuff, but Shadowrun was about the crazy, gonzo fun.

We didn't have to have any gentlemen's agreements at the table to not break the system because it a) was harder to do, and b) didn't matter. We didn't have to purposefully underpower our starting characters to give them room to grow. And we could grow both vertically and horizontally in all classes -- not just awakened and resonance.

[Yerameyahu]

I agree, and it bears repeating: the Caliban used to cost 1.5 *million* nuyen. Today, a 6/6/6/6 commlink is like… what, 50k, at most? And there's nothing above that, except for mil/corp/gov. Honestly, I think it's a mistake the way most of the whole system is based on the 1-to-6 scale. It's not granular enough. The smallest possible penalty or bonus is 1, which is a big step (even for stat+skill=12). In hacking, this really shows, because there are not quite as many degrees of freedom as, say, gunfighting.

[Doc Chase]

The inevitable march of technology continues. How much were the old machines in Mission Control that my smartphone now can outperform?

[Yerameyahu]

Yes, and how much are the machines that mission control now uses?

I wonder if altering the Availability curve (along with price) would help. After all, 'normal' users (normal runners, that is) don't necessarily need the super-comm anyway. Or, apply this change only to hacking programs, and leave the common use/sensor/etc.

[Doc Chase]

As much as they were back then, adjusted for inflation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[sabs]

Yes, Upping the avail/cost of programs and commlinsk would go a long way.

Avalon with Signal and Response upgrades, and system 6 firewall 6 would cost 22,250

Customized Interface: 250
Hardening R6: 150
Optimization: 500
Simsense accelerator: 15000
Biomtric Lock: 150
Armor R10: 500
Crypto sense: 1000
Fetch Module R6: 24000
Response Enhancer: 12000

Maxed out Total: 76050

For the most tricked out commlink you can legally get.

[Yerameyahu]

Technically, you can only have 4 of those mods anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Ah, I forgot the Fetch module.

What's the deal with the Fetch module, anyway? It's just a gimped Agent with Browse, right? Seems like a real waste of time. I guess you can slap a high-rating Fetch onto a low-rating comm…

[sabs]

It's an Agent/Browse program that does not take up processor space and has a personafix.

It's rolling 12 dice on a datasearch test at R6.
And it's cheaper than buying a whole new commlink just for the Agent/Browse.. and yeah, you can take it and hook it up to a 2/2 100ny commlink (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Still, a very limited, odd use. It's not like processor space or personafix matter.

[sabs]

Yeah I only threw it in there for shnarfs and giggles.

[jaellot]

Anybody else miss Dikote? Don't know why I suddenly remember that bit of fun.

[Critias]

Anybody else miss Dikote? Don't know why I suddenly remember that bit of fun.

Not really.

It was too much of a "must have" item.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah: if everything is Dikoted, nothing is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Cheops]

Agreed. Dikote can die in a fire.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I agree, and it bears repeating: the Caliban used to cost 1.5 *million* nuyen. Today, a 6/6/6/6 commlink is like… what, 50k, at most? And there's nothing above that, except for mil/corp/gov. Honestly, I think it's a mistake the way most of the whole system is based on the 1-to-6 scale. It's not granular enough. The smallest possible penalty or bonus is 1, which is a big step (even for stat+skill=12). In hacking, this really shows, because there are not quite as many degrees of freedom as, say, gunfighting.

I agree the 1-6 scale falls down in a lot of areas. With the TN of 5 it exaggerates it even more since it really means on average a 2 hit scale. There is very little difference in feel between a 4 or 6 rating skill for example. And since the scale mostly stops at 6 it really does not capture the difference in feel the skill/attribute/program rating is supposed to convey.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Anybody else miss Dikote? Don't know why I suddenly remember that bit of fun.

I liked some of dikote's effects specifically the weapons that cut through anything, but I did not like the overall dikote everything feel. The cut an X object in half thing I dig in my cyberpunk, I've seen it too often in books, movies, anime. And I want it in more places than the monofilament whip.(which is only for people anyways). Maybe not quite as impressive as earlier SR's but a certain type of melee weapon like vibro weapons that 1/2d the armor mod before the armor mod normal for that weapon type or something.

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

I agree the 1-6 scale falls down in a lot of areas. With the TN of 5 it exaggerates it even more since it really means on average a 2 hit scale. There is very little difference in feel between a 4 or 6 rating skill for example. And since the scale mostly stops at 6 it really does not capture the difference in feel the skill/attribute/program rating is supposed to convey.

This is one of those things in SR4. Does anyone else think the hard skill cap of 6 should just go out the window? It just doesn't make sense. While it does amplify the problems of large dice pools, it kills a lot of immersiveness of the system. Also, as long as you apply the cap (if you use it) AFTER modifiers, there is really nothing wrong with pushing up the skills - and you still do get a gain.