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> Making a face, Or, what cyber makes people love you?
ggodo
post Jun 11 2011, 03:49 PM
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Ok, I've got a new player who wants to make a face. What cyber does a face have that will improve their faceness? Tailored Pheromones is obvious, voice modulator seems useful, what else can He take to make him artificially personable? What stuff should he take to round himm out? Is adept a better choice? Augmented adept? How does one make a face?
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suoq
post Jun 11 2011, 03:55 PM
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Trimming down the Pornomancer to the basics
Elf for Charisma
Adept for Kinesics
First Impression
Chatty
Empathy Software
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Dez384
post Jun 11 2011, 03:58 PM
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1) Good natural charisma
2) Glamor Surge Quality
3) The Fame quality
4) Kinesics Adept Power
5) improved skill adept power
6) voice control adept power
7) Tailored pheromones
8 ) Emotitoy/Empathy software
9) Knowing how to use the social modifiers table to your advantage
10) Good selection of contacts
11) Good Lifestyle
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Mäx
post Jun 11 2011, 04:04 PM
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Full Pornomancer build with the wares italized:
Surged dryad adept with
Charisma 15 (Metegenic Improvement (Charisma) + Genetic Optimization (Charisma) + increase charisma spell with 5 successes)
Or Charisma 13(Metegenic Improvement (Charisma) + Genetic Optimization (Charisma) + a speedball of Ex,Red Mescaline and Novacoke)
Social skill of choice (spec) 6
Global Fame
Tailored Pheromones 3
Enhanced Phermone Receptors 3
Vocal Range Enhancer

Improved Social Ability of choice 3
Kinesics 3
Rating 6 emotitoy
Symbiosis
Mentor spirit(seductress for con or moon maiden for negotiation)

3+15+8+6+3+2+1+3+3+6+1+2= 53
or
3+13+9+6+3+2+1+3+3+6+1+2= 51
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Dez384
post Jun 11 2011, 04:11 PM
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Generally for a face, you'll want to be a little more general than the pornomancer. I've found that about 20 dice before social modifiers is plenty of dice. The character will want to minimize their notoriety and make the most of their street cred.

The face will want some sort of secondary skill set, since just being a one trick pony in shadowrun isn't too much fun. For example, you can talk your way into a club and use palming to slip drugs into someones drinks, or seduce a gaurd and then restrain them with escape artist so the rest of your team can sneak in.
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ggodo
post Jun 11 2011, 04:18 PM
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Ok, judging from this, adept/augmented adept is pretty much the ideal for better talking and to pull in some secondary skillset as well. Palming seems like it'll fit with the player's ideal. I was mostly wondering how one makes a purely cyber/bio face, in case the player reacts adversely to magic. Not expecting another Longbowrocks, but it looks like adept or bust.
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Mäx
post Jun 11 2011, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE (ggodo @ Jun 11 2011, 07:18 PM) *
but it looks like adept or bust.

Not really, as you can see from the full pornomancer build i provided, only 6 dice out of 50 come from adept powers.
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Makki
post Jun 11 2011, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE (Mäx @ Jun 11 2011, 12:22 PM) *
Not really, as you can see from the full pornomancer build i provided, only 6 dice out of 50 come from adept powers.

and 5 from a spell and 2 from the mentor spirit...

for a pure cyber/bio guy in addition to the already mentioned

Tailored Pheromones 3
Enhanced Phermone Receptors 3
Vocal Range Enhancer

the GM may allow +Charisma through Cosmetic Biosculpting. For the Empathy Software you need a tricked out Commlink and ideally Cybereyes for the built-in camera. Elf with Genetic Optimization and an Addiction to some Charisma pushing drugs and you're throwing more then enough dice. With room for a second proficiency.
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Mäx
post Jun 11 2011, 05:08 PM
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QUOTE (Makki @ Jun 11 2011, 07:37 PM) *
and 5 from a spell

Only on the truly maxed out version as thats the only way to max out charisma, but that spell can be casted by a team mate too.
Nad there is the alternative version speedballing all the charisma enchanting drugs, if the increase attribute spell isn't an option (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Glyph
post Jun 11 2011, 06:57 PM
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For a mundane face, tailored pheromones and a vocal range enhancer are the most reliable. A face is one of those builds where you can get 30+ dice, but can get by with 12 or so most of the time. Adepts are good, because kinesics give another +3 dice and are not obvious. Empathy software is a gimme, if you allow it (I think it is overpowered dice pool inflation myself, and a lot of tables ban the stuff). Qualities such as first impression, or some cosmetic surgery, can add dice.

Some things to watch out for - glamour is nice, but makes your character dangerously memorable, and makes it hard to blend into the crowd. Enhanced pheromone receptors can give you penalties in fairly common situations (crowds, strong odors) and make you more vulnerable to tailored pheromones - the negatives outweigh the positives, in my opinion. Fame is a bad idea most of the time - and note that getting the bonus from it always involves revealing your real identity.

Other things a face needs - lots of languages, decent data search ability (a good commlink with some linguisofts and an agent can help a lot with this, if you are tight on points), a high perception, the ability to disguise yourself, and an extensive network of contacts. I did a version of a more traditional face here. It was intended as a sample character, so not very min-maxed, although it would be easy to tweak it to add things like tailored pheromones and empathy software to it.
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suoq
post Jun 11 2011, 07:09 PM
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Side notes: Personally, I prefer a face with some agility and intuition. The stealth group, perception, and ability to shoot their weapon of choice nicely rounds out a face. If you have to sneak AND con your way in, it helps to have a face who can infiltrate, disguise, palm, pay attention, and then shoot their way out of Plan B.

But that's just personal preference.
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Mäx
post Jun 11 2011, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE (suoq @ Jun 11 2011, 10:09 PM) *
But that's just personal preference.

I too like a combat face more then a pure face.
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Dez384
post Jun 11 2011, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Mäx @ Jun 11 2011, 03:14 PM) *
I too like a combat face more then a pure face.

A good face will want some sort of combat utility. It sucks to be able to do nothing when the bullets start to fly. Luckily, pretty much any build can benefit from having some social skills.
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Christian Lafay
post Jun 11 2011, 09:38 PM
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I like the quick-change artist face. Bullets start flying in a gang war and suddenly you look like one of those gang members.
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Udoshi
post Jun 11 2011, 10:04 PM
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You might also consider a more mundane face: Instead of spending a ton of BP on adept powers, get the necessary basics (elf charisma, ware), and spend those points on being an Edgemonkey instead.

While having 25 dice is great, having 16-20 and 5-7 uses of exploding dice and rerolls can be just as good, and perhaps a bit more versatile.
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baronspam
post Jun 12 2011, 03:11 AM
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Check with your GM bofore taking an emotitoy/software. From what I can gather many consider them a somewhat broken rule and houserule against them.
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Magus
post Jun 12 2011, 05:03 AM
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I would really like to sit this game with a Elf (Dryad) Adept Face. In Spy Games there a LOT more Social Adept Powers, or so I have heard. One especially Master Kinesics? Plus other facial sculpt powers.

But all in all it would be HILARIOUS to have another AWAKENED charater that would drive Longbow nuts. LOL He already hates mages for the ability to zap him across the planet, so why not a Pornomancer/Face Adept that can tell him what to do and he has to do it, and hhis character is convinced that he loves it. Howling good time.

Sorry Longbow I love your ingenious rants against the Awakened, it always makes me smile...
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ggodo
post Jun 12 2011, 06:56 PM
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Well, the player ended up going sure adept once he discovered Commanding Voice = Jedi. Speaker's Way 4 life. It's been a good addition to the party having a smooth operator to talk them out of some of the trouble they get in. Honestly, I can't wait to see the look on Longbow's face when Frosty shows up in DOTA. KABOOM! "THIS IS WHY I HATE MAGES!" He was happy that they got to kill a toxic shaman and capture an adept, though.
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Magus
post Jun 13 2011, 03:41 AM
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LOL
I have an Femal Elven cat shaman/mystic adept for Longbow to meet. He would love her until she melts his face off....and not with her mage powers Rowr!!
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Dez384
post Jun 13 2011, 04:33 AM
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Just remember that party members won't take kindly to you repeatedly using social skills (or any other skill) on them unwillingly.
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Critias
post Jun 13 2011, 06:58 AM
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QUOTE (Magus @ Jun 12 2011, 12:03 AM) *
I would really like to sit this game with a Elf (Dryad) Adept Face. In Spy Games there a LOT more Social Adept Powers, or so I have heard. One especially Master Kinesics? Plus other facial sculpt powers.

Not "a lot more," but a few, yes.
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Glyph
post Jun 13 2011, 06:58 AM
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Using negotiation means you are like a used car salesman, and your mark will likely have "buyer's remorse" afterwards. Using con means literally that, conning someone, and there is a reason that con artists hit the ground running after they have fleeced their mark. Seduction means, well, you're basically a dirty whore. Intimidation means you have frightened and coerced someone into doing something you want, and people who experience those emotions tend to feel massive resentment towards the person doing it to them.

A face using these skills to manipulate teammates is a complete idiot - that's like slapping someone's face and then turning your back on them. The victims would be well within the bounds of roleplaying if they shot the offending character at first opportunity. Indeed, the face would be the one roleplaying poorly, since a decent face would use their ability to manipulate others sparingly, knowing that they can breed resentment over the long term.

But social skill use in PVP situations is a minefield, because the rules are so subjective, and fail in so many places. They are good as a quick, simple way to resolve easily quantifiable situations, but they break down when you try to get too complicated with them. Their biggest problem is that most of the listed modifiers assume normal usage of these skills, so efforts to represent what should be exponentially more difficult situations can fail in the face of the humongous dice pools that faces can have.

By the way, commanding voice is not a Jedi mind trick - that would be the influence spell. Commanding voice is more like the Bene Gesserit voice, an immediate compulsion that doesn't alter the target's mind beyond compelling the initial obedience.
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phlapjack77
post Jun 13 2011, 08:24 AM
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A minor nitpick, but I don't see Negotiation being like a used car salesman. It COULD be, if the player / NPC plays it that way. But Negotiation could also be haggling, etc. Heck, one of the specs for it is Diplomacy. Not everyone walks away from a deal feeling like they got screwed. If it was a skillful-enough Negotiation, the "other party" will likely feel like they got a good bargain.

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Fortinbras
post Jun 13 2011, 09:46 AM
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QUOTE (Glyph @ Jun 13 2011, 01:58 AM) *
Commanding voice is more like the Bene Gesserit voice, an immediate compulsion that doesn't alter the target's mind beyond compelling the initial obedience.

I'll see your nerd ante and raise you Wesley's "Drop Your Sword!"
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suoq
post Jun 13 2011, 12:36 PM
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QUOTE (Glyph @ Jun 13 2011, 12:58 AM) *
Using negotiation means you are like a used car salesman

No. It doesn't. Negotiation is how you give the person you're doing business with the same knowledge that you have so that they understand why you charge what you charge, what they're getting for the money, and what they can get elsewhere for what they're willing to pay.

I use negotiation in real life EVERY time I work with a client, be it a repeat client or a new client and my goal is to have repeat clients that I want to do business with and that means not ripping someone off, not being ripped off, and having a good working relationship throughout the contract and after.

QUOTE
Using con means literally that, conning someone, and there is a reason that con artists hit the ground running after they have fleeced their mark.
It also means acting like your Fake Sin, behaving in a manner designed to draw attention or in a manner designed to NOT draw attention. It can be used to convince a drunk to not get in a fight or to not get in their car. It's the skill of an actor, a comedian, a professional wrestler.

QUOTE
Seduction means, well, you're basically a dirty whore.
I hate to break it to you but there are a large number of people who like to flirt with each other. They know they're flirting. They know the other people are flirting. They are enjoying the game, knowing it's a game, and they are NOT "dirty whores" for doing so. When I spend the evening seducing my wife, I am not a "dirty whore" (unless she really wants me to be). When someone is the model in a photo shoot, they are not a "dirty whore", even if they appear seductive. You may have a problem with seduction, but, and trust me on this one, it's YOUR problem.

QUOTE
Intimidation means you have frightened and coerced someone into doing something you want, and people who experience those emotions tend to feel massive resentment towards the person doing it to them.
It also happens during games of Roller Derby (and there's no resentment at the drinking party afterwards). It's a turn on for a number of people I know. It's a solid display of confidence and knowing one's place in the world. When a bunch of people have a problem they can't solve and someone walks in and takes charge, that's a moment of relief from everyone, but the skill that should be rolled is intimidation. Having a presence is as reassuring as it is scary. It all depends on what side you're on.

Social skills are not necessarily negative interactions. They're the foundation of positive social interactions.
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