Mystic Adept Power Point Costs Options

[The Key of E]

So I just had an interesting thought.

We know that in the SR5 book, it says that Mystic Adepts can buy Power Points in character creation for 2 Karma each. Everyone read that and went, "Wha?"

The temporary errata that was quickly laid down is change that cost from 2 Karma per Power Point to 5 Karma per Power Point. This is definitely better, but still seems a little low.

Here's the interesting thought I had: maybe the cost was supposed to be 2 Karma per QUARTER point, not full point. So that would cost 8 Karma for a Mystic Adept to buy a full Power Point. This is the same price as binding a Qi Focus, which makes sense to me.

(I know it specifically spells out on pg 69 2 Karma for a FULL Power Point, but it could just be a particularly egregious typo.)

[Sendaz]

Or you could combine it with the errata'd 5 pt cost so it is 5 karma per quarterpoint so 20Karma per PP.

That will teach them Mysads!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)


And yes that was joking. Please restart your normal breathing cycle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Using the Qi Focus as a comparison seems a bit off since the focus should cost more than an inate power, so the 5 pt per PP is not so bad.

[Isath]

Or maybe one should make it so, that other players can spend Karma, during character generation, to buy off powerpoints from the mys-Ade...erm physical mage. So for every 2 Karma a player dedicates to it, the other guy has 1 power point less... now that will teach'em.

[SpellBinder]

A serious but not heavily thought on idea I've had is having a Mystic Adept pay the extra five karma per Magic point even after character creation, payable as soon as Magic is increased or at a later date.

[RHat]

A serious but not heavily thought on idea I've had is having a Mystic Adept pay the extra five karma per Magic point even after character creation, payable as soon as Magic is increased or at a later date.

Relatedly, I'd considered the idea of having the cost of raising Magic be tied to number of power points, and the cost of a new power point be tied to the value of Magic.

[Chrome Head]

A serious but not heavily thought on idea I've had is having a Mystic Adept pay the extra five karma per Magic point even after character creation, payable as soon as Magic is increased or at a later date.

I find really strange that mystic adepts are not allowed, it seems, to increase their power points after character creation. It makes it so that you almost necessarily go for magic 6 and 6 adept powers at chargen, otherwise you will be gimped throughout your running career. Everything else in the game, you can buy later, but not this... why!?

So yes, I think something has to be done to enable it, be it at the same cost as during chargen, or not.

(and yes I know that you can initiate and take a power point, but that's possible either way and a bit irrelevant)

[SpellBinder]

As I understand it, after creation when a Mystic improves their Magic they gain a Power Point automatically. Not sure if it's actually written like that somewhere, so if not just chalk that up to the long list of stuff that got forgotten for an important rule book.

[Dolanar]

I believe you are correct SpellBinder, we know that the working errata for missions has them unable to get it with initiation, which means of the 2 ways of getting PP, the only one left is by increasing your base magic score.

[Isath]

To be honest... I do not think, that the Mystical Adept concept, has been given enough thought, during development.

[Thanee]

When we will play SR5, eventually, we will use this house rule. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[leetnoob]

What I have been doing in my game so far with mys-ad is give them two magic attributes, one for sorcerer magic and one for power points, they start off at a bit of a disadvantage using the prio system, but if you use some sort of karma-gen they are not too far off. I think I calculated that you compare a F magic attribute mage, then the mys-ad would have something like F-1 on one attribute and F-2 on the other for just about the same karma cost (it might have been F-1 and F-1 instead).

For char creation, if using the priority system, I just used the same values except you could split your initial magic value however you want (so A magic would have 6 points to divide up), and you could use special attributes on either one. The priority system makes mys-ad a bit weak though in my opinion using these rules.

So if you think mys-ad are still too cheap for their cost, you could try the above.

[SpellBinder]

To be honest... I do not think, that the Mystical Adept concept, has been given enough thought, during development.

They're not the only ones that may not have been given enough thought.

COU*technomancers*GH

[Chrome Head]

I'd really like a confirmation if it's possible. Can someone show me where it says that increasing a mysad's magic attribute gives him one more PP? I don't doubt it, I'm just unaware and would like to see it for myself. Thanks.

[RHat]

I'd really like a confirmation if it's possible. Can someone show me where it says that increasing a mysad's magic attribute gives him one more PP? I don't doubt it, I'm just unaware and would like to see it for myself. Thanks.

Per the Missions Hot Patch Errata, they don't. They have to use the option to gain a power point when initiating.

[SpellBinder]

So, sack a metamagic feat for a Power Point, or sink in 15 karma for the same if you carry over the optional rule from SR4. Much more expensive than my thought of +5 karma to improving your Magic attribute without initiation.

[Chrome Head]

Per the Missions Hot Patch Errata, they don't. They have to use the option to gain a power point when initiating.

Thank you.

But wow.. the mystic adept is such a mess. Much more errata needed.

[Draco18s]

As I understand it, after creation when a Mystic improves their Magic they gain a Power Point automatically. Not sure if it's actually written like that somewhere, so if not just chalk that up to the long list of stuff that got forgotten for an important rule book.

While true, it means that a Mys-ad that starts with 3 power points and 5 magic will never have the same number of power points as magic (ignoring PP-from-initiation) whereas actual adepts always would.

By not-spending the extra 10 Karma, you've effectively squandered potential (aside from losing 10 karma, you lose nothing else by taking an additional power point, unlike in SR4 where it also meant fewer spellcasting dice--and under some interpretations, lower max force limits*).

*I never ascribed to this, as it seemed fairly clear to me "max force" was derived via "all other uses of the Magic score" (i.e. full attribute) as it wasn't one of the things picked out by the limiting rule. Although for a lot of utility spells, hits were everything (Improved Reflexes, Combat Sense, Heal...) so the loss of a spellcasting die was something that hurt. My one Mys-ad went 4:2 mage:adept and still never used Imp. Refl. at a higher force than 3. Either way 5 is "nicer" with Mys-ads.

[shonen_mask]

If they never made the changes to mystic adepts the game would still be classed between matrix types and magic types.
In SR4 it was not easy to imagine a character who was bent toward magic and still a good matrix hacker. I guess the pure hackers could care less. Again it's a class thing....
The new supplements will most likely suggest some limitation on magical boundries anyway. But as i have always said shadowrun can be fun with and/or without cyberware, bioware, *lol* big guns,......

[shonen_mask]

And the whole fantasy setting is based on the effects of the Awakening and latent magic abilities.

[cryptoknight]

But as i have always said shadowrun can be fun with and/or without cyberware, bioware, *lol* big guns,......

It can also be incredibly fun as a game without magic/Technomancers. Just Bio/Cyber, Rigger, and Hacker types.

[Draco18s]

If they never made the changes to mystic adepts the game would still be classed between matrix types and magic types.
In SR4 it was not easy to imagine a character who was bent toward magic and still a good matrix hacker. I guess the pure hackers could care less. Again it's a class thing....
The new supplements will most likely suggest some limitation on magical boundries anyway. But as i have always said shadowrun can be fun with and/or without cyberware, bioware, *lol* big guns,......

Um...what?

The adept-hacker is a very viable build in SR4. If not the most powerful hacker build.

And I don't see how the change to Mys-ads makes them...somehow blur the line towards the matrix any.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

*I never ascribed to this, as it seemed fairly clear to me "max force" was derived via "all other uses of the Magic score" (i.e. full attribute) as it wasn't one of the things picked out by the limiting rule. Although for a lot of utility spells, hits were everything (Improved Reflexes, Combat Sense, Heal...) so the loss of a spellcasting die was something that hurt. My one Mys-ad went 4:2 mage:adept and still never used Imp. Refl. at a higher force than 3. Either way 5 is "nicer" with Mys-ads.

Indeeed, though my GM has waffled back and forth on it over the years (to determine differences in play, mostly). We are currently using Max Force for everything but DP's, as intended. But it is not all that crippling the other way either. I have played the same character using both methods.

[Draco18s]

Indeeed, though my GM has waffled back and forth on it over the years (to determine differences in play, mostly). We are currently using Max Force for everything but DP's, as intended. But it is not all that crippling the other way either. I have played the same character using both methods.

Like I said, the interpretation isn't terribly significant, but it's more impactful than SR5's design IMO. Maybe 10 karma matters that much.

[shonen_mask]

Um...what?

The adept-hacker is a very viable build in SR4. If not the most powerful hacker build.

And I don't see how the change to Mys-ads makes them...somehow blur the line towards the matrix any.

how?

What did they get beside improved reflexes that could possibly be applied directly to hacking?

If you created a mystic adept, or even an adept hacker in SR4 it was cheaper to make a pure matrix character and givie them a weapon skill or two. You couldn't even cast spells with a comparable power to any mage at the same level since you had to split the points.

Why make a mystic adept/adept just to take maybe, analytical mind and improved reflexes and not take any augmentation and not cast spells unless you wanted a combat type adept?

and SR4 discouraged characters being able to use magic and be a good matrix operator and/or firearms expert.....

As far as 'bluring' the lines.
a lot of the restrictions i mentioned are not present, or cheaper to overcome in the new core rulebook for one. And it's much easier for a adept decker to raise key skills than most characters as long as they have the power points to spend.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Like I said, the interpretation isn't terribly significant, but it's more impactful than SR5's design IMO. Maybe 10 karma matters that much.

Indeed... Sorry if misinterpreted you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)