 More news of Origins, yeah..I saw the good stuff |
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 Jul 4 2005, 01:49 AM
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#51
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Resident Legionnaire  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550  |
Wireless smartgun links are the dumbest things I've ever heard of. What's wrong with the good ol' palm induction link? The gun should be in your possession when you fire it anyways, and if somebody gets ahold of your gun, that is what your biometric safety (not wireless) is for if you chose to install one. It sounds to me like they were thinking of cool things for 'hackers' to be able to do and came up with ways to make it work without thinking of the practicality of the thing. |
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Jul 4 2005, 01:59 AM
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#52
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
to a point. it really would be handy--if insecure--to have your smartlink (and every other device) hook into your sensorium through a single cybernetic implant. it'd be like having twenty datajacks for the cost of one.
and it's not something the individual soldier/cop/runner is going to have to worry about. the average soldier/cop/runner is going to be accompanied by a commo guy who (theoretically) keeps the soldier/cop/runner from getting hacked. |
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Jul 4 2005, 02:03 AM
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#53
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Or you get a cable-splitter or an external router box, or a datasuit, or run the datafeed across your skin and conductive clothing, or ... |
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Jul 4 2005, 02:17 AM
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#54
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
indeed.
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Jul 4 2005, 02:17 AM
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#55
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Well, if those options are available then there's really nothing to be concerned about for the paranoid. It's only if there aren't wired interfaces that fulfill the same function of incorporating all manner of information into a wireless commlink hub without penalty that there are problems.
Personally, I've had PCs who used a lot of non-cyber wireless and wired technology through a hub and spoke system for the last year or so, but some of the possibilities I've read on sites like Engadget or Gizmodo and stuff I've seen on the Delicious Shadowrun feed blew my mind. For example, the idea of using human skin as a medium for data transfer was something I never thought to explore or conjecture, but which I'd be hard-pressed not to use in the future. |
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Jul 4 2005, 03:08 AM
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#56
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Yeah, risk versus reward. There's risk to using wireless setups, but to some it could be worth it. Like mfb mentioned, it could theoretically cost less essence and money to go wireless, because you're dealing with less implant tech. Also, if you're wireless and another teammate on your network could use your targeting information, you can piggyback the signal onto something and send it over. Downside is that in between you and them, that signal can be hacked.
Now, if you're just standing there shooting, for yourself, you could still run the risk of being hacked if you're wireless. But chances are it's using a very short-ranged signal (the gun's info doesn't need to travel far to your head and vice versa) and good luck getting in that range while the person's firing, Mr. Hacker. :P And of course, if you can go completely wired for some extra investment, well, then you have nothing to worry about. |
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Jul 4 2005, 03:09 AM
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#57
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
It only takes one bad experience for "worth it" to become "never again".
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Jul 4 2005, 03:15 AM
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#58
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 369 Joined: 1-September 03 From: New York State Member No.: 5,563 |
Who said they were rule books? They are as I understood it simply equipment books. Arsenal will contain equipment and vehicles not covered in the BBB. Magic book will contain all other traditions not covered in the BBB. More like Awakenings than MITS. Again bio/cyber lists of things that aren't in the BBB. Now you may have me with players guide and gamemasters guide. But I got the impression they would be SSG and MJLBB mixed and matched for pc's and gm's.
Please. Enlighten us. As for hacking the smart guns. Nobody said it would be easy. Just doable. Thanos |
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Jul 4 2005, 03:16 AM
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#59
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Clearly. There's nothing inherently wrong with wireless. If there was, none of my characters would ever use cell phones, drones, or radio communications. I also see the point mfb made, and I added another twist--use alternative non-cyber methods of data transfer which cannot be jammed or intercepted as easily (even transmitting data across your skin from a gun to the Smartlink system would create some RF leakage). Likewise, any RF transmitting out in a sphere (like information from a fully remote-capable Smartgun) isn't going to stop just because the power is weak. The signal's going to be broadcast However, just because you're not 100% wireless doesn't mean that it's not possible to share that information with your teammates. It just means that you're utilizing a single-source encrypted channel for your communications that is less easily jammed or intercepted rather than letting them access your Smartgun's feed directly.
You mean like how M&M, CC, MitS, SSG, SR3Comp are just "stuff" books without a single rule in them? |
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Jul 4 2005, 03:28 AM
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#60
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 369 Joined: 1-September 03 From: New York State Member No.: 5,563 |
No. I mean they are just that. Catalogs if you will. There may be some fluff in there with the especially with the magic and bio/cyber, but that's it. Thanos |
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Jul 4 2005, 03:41 AM
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#61
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I was responding to Blakkie's pre-edit post regarding contacts. I'd have an easier time seeing you shooting up the FanPro headquarters than sitting tight for a Shadowmaster's Guide and a Player's Handbook. ~J |
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Jul 4 2005, 03:42 AM
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#62
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
None of the new spells, powers, totems, spirits or Traditions will have any new rules? None of the new weapons or vehicles will have any new rules? None of the new cyber/bioware will have any new rules? Interesting. So we're getting "Catalogs," but not in the SSC/FoF tradition because books like that don't sell. Just lists and lists of new stuff, perfectly integrated into the rules established in the main book. No new rules--not even in the GM or Player guides. Interesting. Ah, yes. Now I remember why this seems like total bull.
I wonder why I am skeptical that they are nothing or little more than "catalogs." Yes, the SR3 developers said the exact same thing as the fourth edition developers about wanting to eliminate the confusion from having to flip through all sorts of books for various rules in Second Edition. SR, Third Edition then did the exact same thing. They wrote seven core rules books (the main book and the books I listed above). They then comitted a sin not even Second Edition did by adding new rules to virtually every sourcebook published under Third Edition from Cyberpirates to Year of the Comet to the State of the Art books. Fanpro, the company responsible for the latter books continued this rather egregious practice. Given the above excerpt of the Fanpro catalog, and given the fact that there are six major books which could be rules heavy coming down the pipeline (four and a half of them look very similar to five of the existing SR3 rulesbooks that added to "rules bloat") please excuse my skepticism that there won't be in the future because they seem to be doing the same thing FASA did to help fuck things up. |
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Jul 4 2005, 04:07 AM
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#63
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
of course not, the crowd raised on MMORPGs and other heavily graphical mediums would never buy a book with pictures of gear... they would only pay for text only books with lots of flavourless lists
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Jul 4 2005, 04:12 AM
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#64
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Well, maybe if there were a few images which lack any similarity to the guns they are supposed to be. They must especially differ if there are already images for them from older SBs like SSC and FoF or even the main first and second edition books.
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Jul 4 2005, 04:21 AM
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#65
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
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Jul 4 2005, 04:28 AM
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#66
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Didn't I already say something to that effect?
Shouldn't Jon "Electronic Warfare is God" Szeto have already quashed the myth of "short-range wireless" by now in the development process? |
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Jul 4 2005, 04:35 AM
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#67
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
You did. On the other hand, that jumped out at me to such a degree that I abandoned my usual rule about never posting without reading the rest of a thread.
Though I wouldn't say that Szeto would necessarily have paid attention to it. He's probably the person responsible for making everything but jamming useless in SR3 (encryption rules, I'm looking at you. Not that they don't make sense, they're quite accurate, but you wonder why they bothered to put in the rest of the EW rules afterwards). ~J |
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Jul 4 2005, 04:53 AM
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#68
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
This has been gone over before, but not yet in this thread. "Rules" [edit]as you appear to be defining them[/edit] encompasses both the framework identifying the names of parameters that constitute each class of item and how to interpret these parameters interact with other items in the game world. For example fireams could be defined as have a range, power, penetration, and round capacity, and then how these parameters are used in combat's opposed roll and damage determination. Then also in the "rules" [edit]as you appear to be defining them[/edit] are instances of these, such as Wizz Bang Shotgun, range 20m, power 15, penetration 5, and a 7 round fixed magizine. EDIT: The difference between your definition and what that goal is is here. They aren't counting these as "rules", just reference data that you process using the rules. For an example see D&D 3.5e Complete Xxxx books. Very, very few of the former. They are instead catalogs of the later. If SR3 managed to pull it off to that level it would be stunning to say the least, especially if they did it in 1 book since D&D took 3 (DMG, PHB, and MM). Of course i don't expect them to in full. Earlier in the thread they did mention they might have to put off Initiation till Street Magic due to size constraints. I just hope they can come closer, plus get rid of cross references between books instead of always back to the BBB. So i doubt perfection, but closer is better. P.S. Plus what was said about combining Weapons and Vehicles and Matrix equipment into one book. |
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Jul 4 2005, 05:15 AM
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#69
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Don't forget, our cute Little Ball O' Anger, your issues with Loose Alliances. Oh, and the Creepwoodrun gaming system. ;) |
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Jul 4 2005, 05:34 AM
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#70
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
...what does that have to do with anything?
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Jul 4 2005, 05:40 AM
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#71
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
....on-topic for a Shadowrun discussion board.... Just rounding out the inventory. :) Although another mildly edit:relavent:edit point would be that from what i gleamed from the Loose Alliances Dumpshock forum is the SR4 BBB could be priced at 10$, the cover inlaid with real gold leaf, and include coupons for 5 free handjobs and he'd still be accentuating the negative. :D P.S. I also included Creepwoodrun since i happen to agree with him there, and that was one funny post [edit] that deserves a link [/edit]. :) |
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Jul 4 2005, 06:58 AM
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#72
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
All right, let's try and bring this conversation back to brass tacks.
For those of you who've actually *played* the SR4 prerelease, did you like it more, less, or the same as SR3? |
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Jul 4 2005, 07:17 AM
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#73
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Huh? The description for Street Magic is almost identical to the description of MitS, and there are a lot of rules in MitS. Rules, by their definition, which are also in this Street Magic book. Not the "rules" you seem to think I'm describing (You seem to be incorporating stats into "rules," which is hardly my idea of what rules are), but "rules" which tell you how many dice to roll on a Centering Test, and how to count the successes for whatever you're using Centering for, or the rules for Voudoun asd opposed to the rules for Hermetic or Shamanic magic, or the rules for summoning Watchers, Allies, Insect Spirits, or Invoking Great Forms. Maybe dice mechanics would be more apt, but "rules" sounds better. Given that, I hardly see how a book which is described as containing the same information, fluff and rules, as MitS can be described as little more than a "Catalog." Maybe your definition of catalog includes information on how and what dice you rule to achieve X effect, but mine doesn't. I don't see anything in my L.L. Bean catalog that tells me how many dice I have to roll to put on a sweater, or what the threshold is to do it successfully without making a new hole. I do see a short description of each item grouped with similar products, stats like size, color and price, pretty pictures of mediocre models wearing mostly bland clothing, and an order form in the middle. That's what I consider a catalog to be. Something like that, or the Fanpro 2005 catalog which has a couple of nifty pictures and short blurbs about the products along with "stats" like product name, number, and price. I don't see anything in that catalog about rolling 5's and 6's to get in touch with a dealer who can get me a copy of the book before Gencon, which sucks since I roll 6's. If it walks like a rules supplement, and quacks like a rules supplement, it's probably a rules supplement. |
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Jul 4 2005, 08:35 AM
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#74
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Target Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 2-July 05 Member No.: 7,481 |
Well I have to say I'm not excited about the new abilities that hackers (hate that term) will be getting. Sounds like they will be the new uber-character. I'm really hoping we all are taking something Thanos or Caine said to far. If you can hack a SG link then it oughtta be nothin to hack a drone or rigged car. I'd assume that a remote control signal would have a lot more bandwidth than the SG link. (Although it would be fun to lock up the front tire of some go-gangers Rapier at 140 kph, assuming it's rigged of course.)
Is there a limit to this? It sounds like runs will come down to contested fights over who has control of the gas pedal of the get-away vehicle. Need input, neeeeed input! |
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Jul 4 2005, 09:51 AM
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#75
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 778 Joined: 6-April 05 Member No.: 7,298 |
Actually, if you transmit in a frequency band over which the atmosphere is relatively opaque, short range wireless is short range (no more than tens of meters).
[edit]And since I'm posting anyway, I should point out that demos typically put the best possible face on a new game system. It's hard to notice systemic, long-term problems with advancement and flexibility--or even player control of combat--when you're just there to shoot a few bullets, drop some bad guys, and hang out with other fans. So I'm not sure that a demo really allows one to get a sense for whether a lot of the concerns that have been voiced here are valid or not. Finally, I'd consider the changes to magicians (no magic loss from wounds, and anyone can summon spirits short term or bind them long-term) rather substantial changes to setting. Apparently, they didn't really mean they weren't changing the setting much--for magicians, those changes make an enormous difference to how you play and what your job opportunities are in the sixth world.[/edit] |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 24th November 2024 - 04:40 PM |
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