Changes to Magic Options

[Kagetenshi]

In my opinion, yes, rule them out. Voudoun in particular is impossible to implement well even with a magic system designed to accept multiple traditions simply because to accurately represent the single most important part of being a Houngan requires handing off control to the GM for the entire duration of pretty much anything significantly important. Other than that, yes, I believe the original designers should have stuck to their guns and had some traditions be flat-out wrong.

Regarding the UMT, that's fair. I suppose it would be more correctly put that I don't agree with the philosophy of allowing those limitations to be capable of being overcome.

~J

[Ancient History]

As with many things, magic is always a work-in-progress. You can't represent every system of magic as you'd like to, so you have to pick and choose. Then you have to fit them into the existing system, and see what you can come up with to make it unique without being unbalancing.

Hermetics are probably the easiest magicians to relate to; pure vanilla. You can go pick up a load of Hellblazer and Dr. Strange comics and have fun, re-create Harry Potter's post-pubescent self, whatever. Aside from those cheeky elementalists introduced in the Grimoire, they were a dime-a-dozen-I think they were ripe for the styles in Magic in the Shadows and the schools in State of the Art: 2064.

Shamans have always been a bit more fun, if only because you don't have to aspire to a white tower and a pointy hat with a beard. They tend to get the shaft, though. Insect shamans, toxic shamans, wendigo...and then everybody wants their own set of totems and a reason to explain why /theire/ Siberian saman, Pueblo Cochina dancer, Catholic Idol-worshipper and Australian koradji is different and unique and special and most definately not a shaman. Hell, Druidism and Voudoun both split off from shamans, and even physads snuggled into the action with Totem Way adepts. What a mess. The styles in Magic in the Shadows at least let you customize a character while keeping it in line with the original concept.

Druidism, as it was presented in the London Sourcebook and the first Grimoire, became hopelessly too powerful when mixed with the oft-lamented Germany Sourcebook and Tir na nOg (the latter in particular was a ball-buster).
If you want to complain about wishy-washy traditions, this thing takes the cake: magical adepts, hermetics, Idol-followers, nature-shamans, animal-shamans, mythic-shamans, path magicians...oy.

Voudoun was kicked off in Awakenings, and I really liked it m'self (oh, we could have the arguement about real vs. Shadowrun-style voudoun, but that's messy), even with the addition and corrections made in Cyberpirates! and Target: Smuggler Havens. Still, I think Magic in the Shadows was a step in the right direction for Voudoun.
Arguably the most mutated tradition, Voudoun was the bastard child of shamanism with a few twists (loa achete, govi, ancestor spirits, voudounistas, zombies) and changed significantly.

Wujen really got their start in the Underworld Sourcebook (as anyone who's read the old Shadis article will heartily agree), but didn't even begin to resemble a reasonable and enticing tradition until Magic in the Shadows. Tattoo Magic just doesn't cut it.

[SL James]

[blakkie]

[Kagetenshi]

Yes. They aren't in yours?

~J

[blakkie]

[Kagetenshi]

An Ally Spirit, and especially a bound Free Spirit, absolutely is a part of the "rest of the world". I know I'd trust a lot of my players to play them, but I at least find it not particularly fun to play a secondary character actively trying to break free of my primary character, and in the case of a bound spirit probably actively working to subvert my primary character—that sort of thing is best left to the GM.

~J

[Cynic project]

[mfb]

i don't think it's quite fair to make an ally spirit an NPC. they are extremely expensive, and it's flat-out unfair to turn something into which a player sinks a significant chunk of their resources into a toy for the GM--or, worse, a liability that the GM regularly uses against the character. now, a bound spirit? that's fair game for the GM. those are free, and TANSTASFL.

likewise, with voudoun, there's no reason that total control has to be handed off to the GM. there are too many unknowns with magic to say concretely that tradition X would work in manner Y. all you can do is look at them as they are in the real world, and extrapolate.

[Ancient History]

I allow some leadway. Magicians can expect obedience from their ally spirits, but they should interact with them, not play them as another character. I fully trust them to have the ally do anything they ask it to do, and I completely agree the player should has a say over it's actions-it is perfectly reasonable for the ally to attempt to save the magician without being asked. It's unreasonable for a GM to use it to screw over the player...all the time.

Bound free spirits are most definately NPCs. It'll follow the player's direct commands and any bargains it makes, but the GM determines how it carries those orders out.

Loa spirits possessing houngans and mambos...t'be frank, it's always been my understanding in voodoo that when a loa mounts the houngan, they do pretty much whatever they damn well want anyway. In my games-you may have your own interpretation-the player is allowed to roleplay the loa, with the provision that the GM has final say if the loa starts acting out of character.

For instance, I highly doubt a Shango-mounted mambo would call on a free spirit bound to the mambo. But if the battle was going against the spirit, I'd allow it.

Generally speaking, being mounted by a loa spirit should be a Big Deal. It's really the main voodoo trick, and is ideal for the climax of a story or a big battle when you need the edge. Little thematic details-walking on broken glass, drinking too much, smoking big black cigars and pressing the smoldering butts into the forearm-shouldn't damage the mount in any significant way (I consider hangovers acceptable).

[blakkie]

[NeoJudas]

[NeoJudas]

[Ancient History]

Oh, now he edits it. Doesn't matter in the long run.

[SL James]

[Eldritch]

[SL James]

*whoosh*

[tisoz]

I was pretty much on target with my guess on spirit types.

All full magicians can conjure earth, air, water, and spirits of man. That's 4. Hermetic can conjure fire spirits while shamen can conjure spirits of beasts.

It costs to be magically active, then it costs some more to have a totem.