Shadowrun 4 Errata - Dumpshock Forums

Shadowrun 4 Errata, Post errors you've noticed here, please

Ghost_dk View Member Profile	Sep 11 2005, 08:37 AM Post #151
Target Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 25-March 05 Member No.: 7,230	page 116 the phrase on vertical jumps should read "as high as she can" not "as far as she can

Milo Simpkin

Sep 11 2005, 09:06 AM

Post #152

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QUOTE (Toshiaki)

* I don't think that there are any Willpower boosting cyber/bio, but I figure there's always drugs, or failing that, the Increase Willpower spell.

Active Pain Editor gives a +1 to Willpower.

It might also be nice if they gave some kind of scale to the vehicles. How many people can it seat etc? Okay, I just have to go and look at my earlier SR books, but for a newbie?

blakkie View Member Profile	Sep 11 2005, 09:16 AM Post #153
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263	...wrong thread..

Snoof View Member Profile	Sep 11 2005, 02:19 PM Post #154
Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 6,993	The spirits statline indicates that spirits have a Reaction of their Force times a multiplier, from x2 for an Earth spirit to x4 for an Air spirit. Surely this is a mistake.Does a manifested Force 4 Air spirit really have a reaction of 16 and a manifested Initiative of 20? Snoof

Rotbart van Dain... Rotbart van Dainig View Member Profile	Sep 11 2005, 06:09 PM Post #155
Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951	Fake SINs rate 1 to 6 and are subject to an opposed Test when used, but no stats for Verification Systems given. Assuming a rating from 1 to 6 would it make virtually impossible to actually live (rent an appartement, get a bank account, let the appartment buy groceries) with even the best Fake availabe, as SINs are used about ten times a day at least. A simple fix for this would change the opposed test into a treshold test for the Scanner - Scanner (Fake SIN). Or, as there are no Verification Systems ratings given - just reduce it to a Test where the SIN has to score a hit.

Rotbart van Dain...

Sep 12 2005, 11:50 AM

Post #156

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QUOTE (p. 162 SENSOR TESTS)

To detect a person, critter, or vehicle with sensors, the character/vehicle must make a successful Sensor + Perception Test (Sensor + Pilot in the case of drones).

vs

QUOTE (p. 239 Drones and Sensors)

When observing through a drone, a rigger rolls Sensor (rather than Intuition) + Perception. Drones operating on their own simply roll Sensor + Clearsight autosoft (or just Sensor if they don’t have the autosoft ).

Now, which one is rigth? ;)

The second one would result in Drones being unable to spot Humans.

sapphire_wyvern

Sep 12 2005, 11:53 AM

Post #157

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Page 164 says:

QUOTE

Force
Spells, spirits, and magic items (foci) have an attribute
known as Force. This measures the magical power of the object,
spell, or being. Force is measured on the same scale as metahuman
attributes (natural 1 to 6). For spells and foci, this is often
their only attribute.

On page 195, in the "Simplifying Spell Drain" sidebar:

QUOTE

If she decides to cast it at Force 7, her DV would
be 6 (+1 per 2 points)—and the Drain would be
Physical as the Force exceeds her Magic.

What is the real maximum Force for spells, spirits and foci? I think an actual maximum Force of 6 would be disappointing; knocking someone out with a Stunbolt would become very difficult and powerful initiates would never need (or be able to) overcast.

EDIT: I'm not asking questions because I want to know (although I do). I'm asking questions because *the book raises them and doesn't answer them*. This is, in my opinion, a candidate for Errata.

sapphire_wyvern

Sep 12 2005, 11:59 AM

Post #158

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Page 213 says that:

QUOTE

A System program is limited by the Response rating of the
device it is on; a System run on a device with a lower Response
rating functions at the Response rating instead.

Page 212 says that:

QUOTE

Response may be affected if you run too many programs.
For every x number of programs you have actively running,
where x = System rating, your Response is reduced by 1. So if
you’re running 10 programs with a System 5, your Response
will be reduced by 2.

There needs to be some sort of limit to the recursion implied here.

Say you have System 3, Response 3, and are running 4 programs.

This causes you to lose one Response. (Now at Response 2)

This then causes you to lose one System. (Now at System 2)

This then means that you are now running *twice* as many programs as you have System, so you lose another Response.

You now have Response 1, and therefore System 1.

You are now running 4 times as many programs as you have System, but you're at Response 1 and System 1, and you can hardly get any worse!

It's all a bit over the top. What are the actual rules on overloading degradation? The limits to the recursion, if it occurs at all, need to be clearer.

EDIT: I'm not asking questions because I want to know (although I do). I'm asking questions because *the book raises them and doesn't answer them*. This is, in my opinion, a candidate for Errata.

Elve

Sep 12 2005, 11:59 AM

Post #159

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QUOTE (sapphire_wyvern)

On page 195, in the "Simplifying Spell Drain" sidebar:

QUOTE

If she decides to cast it at Force 7, her DV would
be 6 (+1 per 2 points)—and the Drain would be
Physical as the Force exceeds her Magic.

This is indeed the only mentioned Force of more than 6...

hahnsoo

Sep 12 2005, 12:08 PM

Post #160

Mr. Johnson

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QUOTE (sapphire_wyvern @ Sep 12 2005, 06:53 AM)

Page 164 says:

QUOTE

Force
Spells, spirits, and magic items (foci) have an attribute known as Force. This measures the magical power of the object, spell, or being. Force is measured on the same scale as metahuman attributes (natural 1 to 6). For spells and foci, this is often their only attribute.

On page 195, in the "Simplifying Spell Drain" sidebar:

QUOTE

If she decides to cast it at Force 7, her DV would be 6 (+1 per 2 points)—and the Drain would be Physical as the Force exceeds her Magic.

What is the real maximum Force for spells, spirits and foci? I think an actual maximum Force of 6 would be disappointing; knocking someone out with a Stunbolt would become very difficult and powerful initiates would never need (or be able to) overcast.

The maximum force is twice the Magic Attribute, in most cases. The 1 to 6 part is a bit misleading, as it refers to "natural" metahuman values. However, remember that Trolls can get a "natural" value of 10 or higher in Strength.

QUOTE

<snip> It's all a bit over the top. What are the actual caps on overloading degradation? The limits to the recursion need to be clearer.

There is no "recursion". You simply lower the response and system (and thus program limits) by a virtual reduction, rather than an actual reduction. When Response is lowered (and thus System is lowered), you are still "counting up" using the original System value.

Don't post questions in the Errata thread... post actual Errata and not "things in need of clarification".

Cochise

Sep 12 2005, 01:39 PM

Post #161

Mr. Quote-function

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QUOTE (hahnsoo)

Don't post questions in the Errata thread... post actual Errata and not "things in need of clarification".

*erm* "Things that need a clarification" also qualify for Errata ;)

hahnsoo

Sep 12 2005, 01:43 PM

Post #162

Mr. Johnson

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QUOTE (Cochise)

QUOTE (hahnsoo)

Don't post questions in the Errata thread... post actual Errata and not "things in need of clarification".

*erm* "Things that need a clarification" also qualify for Errata ;)

Yes, but only after they've been clarified, not as a question... if you start a post with a question, you are essentially clogging up the next few responses in the thread just to discuss that question and potential answers. It would be much better to discuss it in a forum thread first, THEN post it as finalized Errata later (especially after Bull or Synner or Adam or other bigwigs have weighed in on it) than to clog up the thread.

Cochise

Sep 12 2005, 02:04 PM

Post #163

Mr. Quote-function

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QUOTE (hahnsoo)

It would be much better to discuss it in a forum thread first, THEN post it as finalized Errata later (especially after Bull or Synner or Adam or other bigwigs have weighed in on it) than to clog up the thread.

It's just not "our" task to "finalize" any Errata ;)
The only problem with "asking" a question is: Someone might unnecessarily feel the urge to actually answer it or make a claim that questions should not be asked ... thus cloging up the thread ... just as it happens right now :D

Rotbart van Dain...

Sep 12 2005, 02:30 PM

Post #164

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QUOTE (p. 255)

If a fake print is used, make an Opposed Test between the duplicate and the maglock rating; if the fake wins, the maglock accepts it.

vs.

QUOTE (p. 333)

Make an Opposed Test between the retinal duplication rating and the retinal scanner rating.

as for p. 326 Biometric Reader (per reader) wheras p. 319 Biometric Reader has a DR of 3.

Nikoli View Member Profile	Sep 13 2005, 03:31 AM Post #165
Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033	Is Gunnery in the skill chart by accident, as there is no text concerning the skill in the "rules" portion of the skills section.

Elldren

Sep 13 2005, 03:42 AM

Post #166

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QUOTE (Nikoli)

Is Gunnery in the skill chart by accident, as there is no text concerning the skill in the "rules" portion of the skills section.

Text is on pg. 125. Gunnery is a Vehicle skill, not a Combat skill

sapphire_wyvern View Member Profile	Sep 13 2005, 10:40 AM Post #167
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 4-August 02 Member No.: 3,064	Typo! Page 183: Assensing Table On the "3 hits" entry: A general diganosis for any maladies.... Should be diagnosis for any maladies.

sapphire_wyvern

Sep 13 2005, 10:47 AM

Post #168

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Not really errata but could be cleaned up for future printing: the last sentence of the Improved Ability power description is redundant (simply repeats pricing information given at the head of the description, just like every other power).

Possibly errata: The description for the Cat Mentor Spirit says:

QUOTE

Unless the Cat magician makes a Willpower + Charisma (3) Test, she cannot make an attack that will incapacitate her target (ie., a Combat spell must be cast with a Force/damage level that will not disable).

This looks like a hangover from SR3, when you chose a base damage level to cast a spell at, as well as a Force. It could just be redundant, tautologous language in SR4. I recommend cleaning it up anyway by deleting "/damage level " from the sentence.

Namergon View Member Profile	Sep 13 2005, 08:49 PM Post #169
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Paris, France Member No.: 639	p. 232 Matrix Combat summary Defense is still listed as Response + Stealth, instead of Response + Firewall. The errata fixed this bug on p.230 Matrix Attacks, but it escaped vigilance in this summary. ;)

sapphire_wyvern

Sep 14 2005, 11:47 AM

Post #170

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Page 227:

QUOTE

Data Bombs may be attached to icons that are also protected
by Encrypt or Scramble programs.

There's no such Scramble programs mentioned in SR4.

Additionally, the list of tasks that require Spoof (page 227) fails to include one of its most useful applications: sending falsified instructions to agents & drones (page 224). The Technomancer Complex Form version can also do it to Sprites (page 235).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 228:

QUOTE

If you concentrate, you can still perceive through your meat
senses while in VR, but it’s very distracting and you suffer a –6
Perception Test dice pool modifier.

Page 230:

QUOTE

If you want to interact with the physical
world rather than the VR Matrix, you need to either go offline or
concentrate on your meat body and spend a turn using physical
Initiative (with a hefty –4 dice pool modifier because you’re still
bombarded with VR signals).

Contradiction!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 232:

QUOTE

Implants and Resonance
As with Magic, cyberware and bioware limit Resonance. To
determine the severity of this impediment, take any reductions
from Essence due to cyberware and/or bioware implants (see p.
62) and round up to the nearest whole number. This amount is
deducted from the technomancer’s Resonance.

All questions of whether Technomancers should suffer Resonance loss from technology aside, I'm pretty sure that they are supposed to have their Resonance maximum reduced by Essence loss as well. ;) They should be consistent with the magic user rules, neh?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 235:

QUOTE

Sprites must remain with the technomancer. If the technomancer
leaves them behind in a node or loses online access,
the sprite fades away until the technomancer calls them back.
Sprites can be temporarily dismissed at any time and called
back at a later point (within that 8-hour period); both requiring
a Simple Action.

Later that same page in the "Sprite-Technomancer Link" section:

QUOTE

If a technomancer loses his connection to the Matrix,
however, he loses contact with his sprites. In this case, the
sprites continue to operate. If the technomancer comes back
online, he must make a Resonance + Intuition (3) Test to regain
the mental link to the sprite.

Another contradiction!

kigmatzomat View Member Profile	Sep 14 2005, 02:13 PM Post #171
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 909 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Louisville, KY (Well, Memphis, IN technically but you won't know where that is.) Member No.: 7,626	p.245, "Toxin Protection" table on the upper left side. 7th entry down is a "Nephritic screen." No such piece of bioware exists in the SR4 book; PDF search shows this table as the only use of the word "nephritic."

Shadow_Prophet

Sep 14 2005, 02:55 PM

Post #172

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QUOTE (sapphire_wyvern)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 228:

QUOTE

If you concentrate, you can still perceive through your meat
senses while in VR, but it’s very distracting and you suffer a –6
Perception Test dice pool modifier.

Page 230:

QUOTE

If you want to interact with the physical
world rather than the VR Matrix, you need to either go offline or
concentrate on your meat body and spend a turn using physical
Initiative (with a hefty –4 dice pool modifier because you’re still
bombarded with VR signals).

Contradiction!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actualy thats not really a contradiction. One is a perception modifier. The other is a general dice pool modifier applied to anything other than perception. That -6 dice pool penalty to perception isn't going to affect say, you running. It is going to affect if you notice that tree you're about to run into.

Rob Boyle View Member Profile	Sep 16 2005, 04:05 AM Post #173
Eclipse Phase Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Chicago Member No.: 1,355	Hey all -- thanks for the errata notes so far. We did our best to catch all the mistakes we could find, but putting together a rulebook is a complicated and detailed task, and it's inevitable that we miss things. There's nothing like having a few hundred extra sets of eyes for editing purposes, though, so please continue to post anything you find, and we'll make appropriate changes for future printings and updated PDFs. While I'm here, I'd like to ask anyone that has a spare moment to turn a critical eye towards the Sample Characters in particular. If we have mistakes with these, I'd rather catch them all early on so we don't have to keep double-checking and re-calculating them later. So if you have a chance, please check the numbers and post anything you find here -- by this coming Sunday if at all possible. Thanks!

coolgrafix

Sep 16 2005, 06:48 AM

Post #174

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Rob Boyle)

While I'm here, I'd like to ask anyone that has a spare moment to turn a critical eye towards the Sample Characters in particular. If we have mistakes with these, I'd rather catch them all early on so we don't have to keep double-checking and re-calculating them later. So if you have a chance, please check the numbers and post anything you find here -- by this coming Sunday if at all possible. Thanks!

Rob, some considerable analysis was done here:

Character Analysis Thread

blakkie View Member Profile	Sep 16 2005, 01:30 PM Post #175
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263	Recoil Example, page 143 is less than instructive on how recoil works. As is the rest of the recoil text, but if you change the example at least there is one place in the book that explains it: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=9987

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