 Shadowrun 4 Errata, Post errors you've noticed here, please |
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 Sep 27 2005, 09:41 PM
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#226
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Hoppelhäschen 5000  Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951  |
Thats not what I mean...
That makes the difference visible: Instead of using the normal 1 Hit -> 1 DV, it uses 1 Hit -> 2 DV, or uses the mechanic of Magic for Physical Damage... Ungood.
Only with the rules, that doesn't help. ;) |
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Sep 27 2005, 10:04 PM
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#227
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Says you. :P I'd rather have seen that used more in the system. These high damage values are important to increase the shortterm danger. Changing to 1 box hit drops the danger a lot as you drop the DV to match. If you don't drop the DV it becomes a near certainty that at least some damage is done. When that occurs and you aren't allow to heal up the damage a spiral starts. You are worried about evironment killing fast, but IRL failure is in fact a hell of a lot quicker death than the 8 DV/day of the Artic conditions.
That's why i suggested more of a range for equipment bonuses. It already helps to some extent in the rules, you'd need to burn "Edge" though to try match survival in RL. |
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Sep 27 2005, 10:18 PM
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#228
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
As long as it does not use a different mechanic as the rest of the system...
Not quite - it drops the speed of danger.
Just that such critical incidents usually call for extra tests, resulting in additional damage if failing. |
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Sep 28 2005, 04:39 AM
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#229
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Ya, 1 box per, 2 boxes per, etc. when needed being defined as the mechanic of the system. *shrug* But that isn't so much the way they took the system. Instead they took it the direction that Survival is written in, more binary. Survival is just a more obvious example of the downside. :(
Which is already a bit slow is some ways. -40 weather kills in hours for those not at least somewhat prepared, not the minimum 3 days that the Survival skill results in. Ebola is indeed slower than RL sometimes. :) I'm not looking to get it up that fast though, for playability reasons. I thought about it a bit more, and perhaps the problem is partially in the lack of Threshhold modifiers for some of the more key environmental factors such as Weather conditions. Then change it to 1 box/Threshhold with credit for less that the Threshhold hits. Or at that point you could just change the naming for that from "Threshhold" to "DV" and have Survival as soak-like reducing the DV. Either of those effectively equivalent ways does give the smaller random swing range, but also allows for defining truely dangerous conditions. So akin to unDodgable damage. Whether it really would be enough of an improvement to be worthwhile? *shrug* For as often as Survival is likely to come up i can live with the way it is, functioning basically as a Stunbolt that is gimped (no extra damage for net hits), with a fixed number of hits rolled at 1/2 Force cast, that is maximum overcast for Magic ranging between 1 and 4 corrosponding to 4 different classes of environments.
Example? Not sure what you are refering to here. |
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Sep 28 2005, 06:30 AM
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#230
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Been there. ;) Even that gets pretty nasty if you don't use optimal conditions - there is a load of negative modifiers... but yeah, thats kinda slow. On the other hand, when allowing the use of First Aid, being sparse with negative modifiers and counting any closed shelter as the 8h-place, the rules may work over a normal timeframe.
For those mercs out there? Definitively. ;)
Mainly involving Athletics. |
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Sep 28 2005, 01:13 PM
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#231
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Well, doesn't having the survival skill preclude being totally unprepared. Every survivalist I know knows a few tricks for getting by a little longer if caught in the wild with nothing, even in the arctic (though I have nothing but respect for theose hardy fools that eke out a life in those inhospitible areas.)
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Sep 28 2005, 02:21 PM
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#232
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Being prepared is a huge part of the skill IMO. Including being ready to bring resolve to bear, and being acclimatized. But acclimatization doesn't fit into the Skill mechanism because of it is mostly a temporary effect. The human body is incredibly adaptable. Just watch people getting off the plane from very cold regions to a place where it is only a few degrees below freezing. They'll be comfortable in T-shirts and shorts (unless it is very high humitity, then they'll likely wear long sleeves and pants outside). I've walked a 1/4 mile out in the open in 30 miles/hour wind and -30º with clothing i've spent the whole day outside in under normal conditions. It is scary how cold it felt, i definately wouldn't want to have to walk more than a mile like that at a time. But without being acclimatized and without proper clothing i would have had serious frostbite and would have been incapacitated just from that 10 minutes of walking. Oh, and i completely get tying the skill to Willpower. |
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Sep 30 2005, 05:19 AM
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#233
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 715 Joined: 4-September 05 From: Metaplane GEPLK136 (The one with the lizards. You remember the lizards, don't you?) Member No.: 7,684 |
"Radical Eco-Shaman" lists "Spirit Bane: Fire Spirits" as 20bp. The Spirit Bane negative quality is 10 bp.
Also, is there any chance we can get bookmark tags for the individual sample characters in the PDF? |
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Sep 30 2005, 10:22 AM
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#234
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
The sample characters have bookmarks in the new pdf-version (battlecorps).
Vehicle list: are that the size descriptions for Kanmushi/Microskimmer (they should be mini) and iBalll/Flyspy (they should be micro) correct?. And some prices on list could need a change (like the Nightsky) SYL |
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Sep 30 2005, 11:09 AM
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#235
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Micro-Drones are smaller than Mini-Drones, both differ in Body, so those Descriptions are correct... check the Concealability Table.
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Sep 30 2005, 09:14 PM
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#236
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
Exactly: FlySpy/iBall are mini-drones ... the iBall fits into a human eye, the FlySpy is described as an large insect, where especially the Mikroskimmer ("smaller than a can lid") are described as being something larger.
Shouldn´t the iBall/Flyspy have body 0 and "micro". We are talking about drones with a lenght/diameter of perhaps 2cm. SYL |
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Sep 30 2005, 09:26 PM
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#237
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Obviously not.
The Occular Drone can be piloted like an iBall Drone, but it isn't one... the latter is about as large as a Grenade. Where as the definition of a can lid.... think beer can - that lid. ;) |
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Oct 1 2005, 08:24 PM
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#238
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Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,399 |
Drugs and BTLs are described in detail on pages 248-251, but there are no prices or availabilities listed for them. Despite their combat effects and the addiction quality open to starting characters.
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Oct 1 2005, 08:33 PM
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#239
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
And it can be equipped with a grenade as part of its payload... the Ocular Drone cannot. |
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Oct 1 2005, 09:14 PM
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#240
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
An with a Flash Pack and three additional Sensors, too. ;)
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Oct 1 2005, 11:36 PM
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#241
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 20-August 05 Member No.: 7,576 |
According to the description of the Con skill on page 120 "Con Tests are opposed by the target’s Intuition + Con (or Negotiation)."
According to the table on page 121 Con Tests are opposed by the target’s Charisma + Con (or Negotiation). * Also, the "Judge Intentions" attribute test on page 130 lets you "gauge another character’s [...] honesty" by making an an Opposed Intuition + Charisma Test against the target’s Willpower + Charisma. As there are skills that make you better at lying and detecting lies (Con and Negotiation), the Judge Intentions test shouldn't let you do that. |
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Oct 1 2005, 11:42 PM
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#242
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
Point taken for the iBall and the Microskimmer. But what about the Flyspy? A "large insect" with body 1? SYL |
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Oct 1 2005, 11:53 PM
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#243
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
True... in Shadowrun, 'large insects' usually are much bigger than that. :grinbig:
It should be about the size of a human palm, though. |
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Oct 3 2005, 04:13 PM
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#244
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Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,679 |
I don't know if this one has been covered, under magic section, magical lodges, it says that magical lodges rating limits the force of the spell being learnt. Since spells are no longer learnt at a force I assume this is an error, which begs the questions what limits the ability to learn spells as related to magical lodges
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Oct 3 2005, 05:52 PM
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#245
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Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 18-September 05 Member No.: 7,756 |
There doesn't appear to be anything in the game rules to define a character as a Hacker. In my group, we had an interesting character concept come up where the character would do some matrix activities but not as much as what a pre-SR4 decker would do. Because there is no definition in game terms about how certain scribbles on a character sheet would represent a hacker, we ran into a problem when assigning some negative qualities that read "5 BP (10 BP for hackers/technomancers)".
Technomancers, Magicians, Adepts, and Mystic Adepts all have game-rule definitions -- they're the characters that purchased the positive quality. I suggest adding a Hacker 0BP positive quality and making the Cracking skill group's skills only available to those taking the Hacker quality. |
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Oct 3 2005, 05:54 PM
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#246
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
:rotfl:
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Oct 3 2005, 05:59 PM
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#247
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 238 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,569 |
Um. How does that resolve anything? How do you decide who can take the Hacker quality? |
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Oct 3 2005, 07:57 PM
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#248
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Target Group: Members Posts: 44 Joined: 2-October 05 Member No.: 7,799 |
The Ruger Super Warhawk is listed as SS. Revolvers are semi-automatic.
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Oct 3 2005, 08:28 PM
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#249
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 238 Joined: 18-August 05 Member No.: 7,569 |
Could you provide a reference? I see nowhere that says that all revolvers are semi-automatic (unless of course you were simply stating your opinion, in which case it doesn't really belong in the errata thread). Calypso |
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Oct 3 2005, 09:20 PM
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#250
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 875 Joined: 16-November 03 Member No.: 5,827 |
Normal melee damage (fist, kick) is stun. With bone lacing or bone density it becomes physical damage. IMHO this doesn´t make sense (what about plastic boots?) or something like "can do physical or stun damage in melee" is missing.
SYL |
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