Full Version: Preventing of Powergaming
A tacnet is a Program that combines and interprets sensory input from all people hooked up to it, to provide them a bonus to certain actions. See Unwired.
There's definitely no arguing that Genetic Heritage doesn't cost Essence, nor that it happens 'before' Awakening in chargen.
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 20 2011, 05:52 AM) 
There's definitely no arguing that Genetic Heritage doesn't cost Essence, nor that it happens 'before' Awakening in chargen.
It is Definitely a Twinky Argument, with lots of Cream Filling indeed...
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 20 2011, 09:02 AM)
It is Definitely a Twinky Argument, with lots of Cream Filling indeed...
It's also a completely wrong one.
Line devs have stated in the past... that it doesn't cost MONEY... but it still costs essence. You always end up paying the piper somehow.
QUOTE (Falconer @ May 20 2011, 06:06 AM)
It's also a completely wrong one.
Line devs have stated in the past... that it doesn't cost MONEY... but it still costs essence. You always end up paying the piper somehow.
Line devs have stated in the past... that it doesn't cost MONEY... but it still costs essence. You always end up paying the piper somehow.
And I am agreeing with you on that...
Even to the point that though you may have lost that Essence at Birth, it still impacts your Magic rating at Character Creation...Still, I have heard the argument more than once...
If you have less than 6 essence at birth and suffer magic loss from it, how is that story going to work?
"Jim was shaking like a sick dog as the older kids barreled down on him in the alley. He slipped against the wall and turned to cover his face with his hands when a surge of energy struck him... in the form of a boot to the junk. Later in the hospital, little Jim thought that maybe that story should have gone differently..."
"Jim was shaking like a sick dog as the older kids barreled down on him in the alley. He slipped against the wall and turned to cover his face with his hands when a surge of energy struck him... in the form of a boot to the junk. Later in the hospital, little Jim thought that maybe that story should have gone differently..."
The rule is so stringent, because if it wasn't, every PC would have gotten their 'ware before they awakened.
And honestly, trying to exploit a cheesy potential loophole will hardly convince the OP's GM that he is not powergaming, so it's kind of an ironic tangent.
And honestly, trying to exploit a cheesy potential loophole will hardly convince the OP's GM that he is not powergaming, so it's kind of an ironic tangent.
Easy answer... "latent awakening" quality. Which means you don't awaken til well after play starts... if ever (GM whim, ).
And if I saw a character like this w/ the quality... it would never awaken. Fomori and shapechangers have a long history of being abused in shadowrun. Good old highest priority on race selection....
And if I saw a character like this w/ the quality... it would never awaken. Fomori and shapechangers have a long history of being abused in shadowrun. Good old highest priority on race selection....
QUOTE (Glyph @ May 20 2011, 06:19 PM)
The rule is so stringent, because if it wasn't, every PC would have gotten their 'ware before they awakened.
And honestly, trying to exploit a cheesy potential loophole will hardly convince the OP's GM that he is not powergaming, so it's kind of an ironic tangent.
And honestly, trying to exploit a cheesy potential loophole will hardly convince the OP's GM that he is not powergaming, so it's kind of an ironic tangent.
It's not every piece of ware; it's a single inherited trait passed down through altered germ-line cells. Consequentially, it's impossible to argue that it was essence lost after awakening. If the rules for this loss are to be consistent with essence loss from other starting and playing rules and qualities, then that means it doesn't count toward lost magic.
Twinky, for sure. The dude is asking for powergaming HAX, and that's the one with the best fit. No net gain or loss in BP, but there is a loss in PP and a buffer of .8 essence to use and lose on select ware.
Nah. The rules have no concept of 'when/where's the Essence loss from?' There's no reason the quality should have a unique loophole, especially given the insane abuse. The quality shouldn't even exist, but it does; might as well treat it right.
In other news, I'll take my free Synaptic 3, plz.
In other news, I'll take my free Synaptic 3, plz.
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 21 2011, 07:04 AM)
Nah. The rules have no concept of 'when/where's the Essence loss from?' There's no reason the quality should have a unique loophole, especially given the insane abuse. The quality shouldn't even exist, but it does; might as well treat it right.
In other news, I'll take my free Synaptic 3, plz.
In other news, I'll take my free Synaptic 3, plz.
Yes, Pleeze... Along with My Genetic, in utero, Reakt treatment...
If you're GM is really being a putz, go for the 30 die firearms adept. Maybe you can beat the Powergame hate out of him by destroying his tanks with a holdout. 
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 22 2011, 04:25 PM)
If you're GM is really being a putz, go for the 30 die firearms adept. Maybe you can beat the Powergame hate out of him by destroying his tanks with a holdout.
That is just going to increase the Powergame Hate, not alleviate it.
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 23 2011, 01:54 PM)
That is just going to increase the Powergame Hate, not alleviate it.
While I've seen that advice given straight faced, I think in this case longbowrocks is being sarcastic.
QUOTE (Hida Tsuzua @ May 23 2011, 08:29 AM)
While I've seen that advice given straight faced, I think in this case longbowrocks is being sarcastic.
Possibly... it is often so difficult to tell with Longbowrocks...
QUOTE (Hida Tsuzua @ May 23 2011, 08:29 AM)
While I've seen that advice given straight faced, I think in this case longbowrocks is being sarcastic.
Yes, yes he was. He did it correctly - he used the sarcasm smiley. Because if you don't use the sarcasm smiley, the sarcasm is invisible.
QUOTE (Glyph @ May 23 2011, 06:09 PM)
Yes, yes he was. He did it correctly - he used the sarcasm smiley. Because if you don't use the sarcasm smiley, the sarcasm is invisible.
Damn straight. I was trying to draw the ninjas out of my screen. I know they're there somewhere.
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ May 17 2011, 11:50 AM)
Our GM now refuses to accept metavariants in combination with Surge. I created an fomori-mystic adept with 5 power points (hardmaxed magic) and i urgently need a higher agility. I am not going to implant ´ware and i lack spellcasting skills. I also spent most of my quality points (10 for mystic adept, 10 for "way of the adept", 5 for mentor spirit) so i don´t have the 20BP left that would be needed for the exceptional attribute (agility). I planned to ask the GM for a medium rating 2 surge, only to get metagenetic agility, nothing freakish or something else. IF he declines, do you see how to manage to raise the attribute anyway and save the build?
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ May 20 2011, 09:37 AM)
This was the intention for this topic. The GM feels uncomfortabel with class 3 surge metavariants that use restricted gear and possession magic...so i tried to reduce the powergaming a little bit but this doesn´t mean that i want to play a sore loser. I thought about a combat-character that is capable of doing the tank-job. So a troll is definitely preferable. If you want to be a real tank, you should also bring along some resistance to magic...so magical capabilities are the thing to go. Because i cannot do metavariant and surge alltogether, i had to choose and took the fomorian. But the problem with a troll is the relatively low agility and for this problem i needed a solution. Acutal status is "exceptional attribute - agility" for 20BP, i dropped "way of the adept" for the moment (buy it later in game) and i would also switch the metagenetical increase in body for the same increase but in charisma. So he is tough enough and can deal some damage in the future. Is that still powergaming?
If your GM is uncomfortable with throwing Surge into the mix, check with him if he is fine with you simply buying metegenetic properties without Surging. From pg 110 of RC:
QUOTE
Metagenetic qualities are special Positive and Negative
qualities that can only be taken by characters with the appropriate
genetic background. Only characters that have bought a metavariant
metatype (pp. 70–72) or the changeling quality (p. 73) may
choose qualities from this section.
qualities that can only be taken by characters with the appropriate
genetic background. Only characters that have bought a metavariant
metatype (pp. 70–72) or the changeling quality (p. 73) may
choose qualities from this section.
If he's fine, you can delay picking up Way of the Adept as you have planned, and use the remaining 20 BP to buy Metegenic Improvement (Agility) instead of Exceptional Attribute.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with powergaming. The main idea of a game is to have fun as a group. If everyone in the group does it, it's not a problem. If it's a mixed group, one of the things your GM may be concerned with is that the increased opposition he needs to throw at you may be too much for the rest of the players and make it less fun for them.
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