That reminds me of a LoT5R char my friend played. A crab bushi named Hida Yamamoto...the crab ladies man with the letchery and uncouth flaws.

"Wouldn't it be great if some scorpion found out that he was really dishonerable and needed to commit sepuku?" --Crane Courtier

"I'm on it..." --Scorpion ninja

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Onto the actual character...I probably wouldn't allow him on the fact of body starting at 1? How did he manage to live to be old enough to survive surgery...and for that matter how did he survive surgery

Duh, that's why he got the Bone work and the Superthyroid.

Are you just making a joke, or are you really that much of a weenie GM? You don't let any characters have a natural 1 in an Attribute? It isn't like he's playing with a 1.

A stat of 1 is damn near crippled in my opinion.

Furthermore you only would have a 2 body. Superthyroid is the ONLY thing on that sheet that actualy increases body. The bone density and lacing only add to body durring damage resistance tests.

Sorry for going by deffinitions of what the attribute levels are body 1...weak...beyond underdeveloped. IE How the hell did he survive the flu?

I guess "weenie" it is.

P.S. Body fixed.

Toss me into the weenie camp too then. There'd have to be a damn good reason for somebody to have an attribute of base of 1 in anything.

Calypso

Quote from PG. 62 SR4

Yes I'm sorry I use tables and expect halfway decent character concepts.

You had a base stat of 1, which is weak, and worse than under developed. Give me a break blakkie . Sorry I play a roleplaying game instead of a min maxing/munchining style game.

He was born that way? It does say Weak, it doesn't say "Gimp", "Cripple", or "unable to survive walking down the street".

Umm, the Wiki is for NPCs.

P.S. Your style would be actually the possibilities of limiting character concepts because you just write off a section of the table.

Weak is weaker than Underdeveloped. This poor guy is going to catch every cold/flu that passes within a kilometer of him. Or maybe he breaks his hip when he rolls out of bed (except for the bone work). Or he can't climb a flight of stairs without collapsing.

Basically, he's close to an invalid. He has the body of somebody who was bedridden for 2 years. Or someone with an immuno-deficiency of some kind. I feel sorry for him

Calypso

Well i feel sorry for you, too.

P.S. I must have missed that description in the BBB. :^)

Thank you for your concern. Were you planning to elaborate on that insult, or just leave it ambigous?

Thank you.

Secondly Blakkie, you advertised this as a character YOU were going to play if no one else made a face.

And no I don't limit it. If you managed to come up with even a halfway decent reason for body one and being able to survive to the point of the surgery for the superthyroid and still be quite under developed and sickly then sure.

Thats ofcourse besides the fact that how did the guy make it into the military with a body 2? Or 1 if with your story he got the gland in the military.

I'll let you play anything if you can justify it. And well I can't see any justification for that. Go ahead and try and surprise me there if you want.

An asside I do kinda like my npc's to be realistic too.

Because you are just reading into the single word description what you want. Did you read on page 61 what Body can mean?

Further exactly what have you described that would preclude this character from existing? More vulnerable than normal to certain things, sure. But able to function, and with the augmentation even more-so.

I'm assuming that if rating 6 is the human maximum, then rating 1 is the human minimum. IE: The weakest someone can be in an attribute and still survive. If you have a better interpretation, by all means do share.

And what about it precludes the character from existing? Nothing, except that the only reason that the character has a body of 1 thus far is to save a few build points. I mean, how does one even survive as a Shadowrunner with a body of 1? The first bullet that comes your way takes you out.

Calypso

Z: A shrewd move, taken straight from Sun Tzu, or from my own book, Zap Brannigans Big Book of War! But the thing they don't realize, and never will...

K: Sir, they've docked and come aboard.

Z: Then I've gambled all and lost.

The Damage Resistance actually is quite decent.
Even the Condition Monitor of 9 isn't a problem.

It's the Overflow Monitor of low-bods that tends to break the camel's back.
So, as long as that character doesn't plan to be wounded mortally, he's fine.

Thanks for the catch there, i rolled him back from my initial character of Body(2) + Suprathyroid and didn't check that.

Hmmm, didn't notice that Avail on the Suprathyroid. I guess i got it stuck in my head it was avail when Ellery used it as a reason why you could expect mages to start out with 'ware. I've been using the XLS chargen sheet, and it doesn't have the Avail visible on the the 'Ware selection sheet. It doesn't check the Avail either, i should fix that there so it becomes more apparent.

EDIT: Hrmmm, i think i'll just put a cavet on the character that he's not a starting PC and post him as a a low level pimp/fixer to the Wiki (if i can get it working).

I at first had him in the Tir military. But i wasn't sure if it would make sense for him to get a discharge and wander off like that. I'm not sure about the politics of the Tir military.

This is an alternate Opposite world.

Yes, well i did have to cut him back a bit as i would have had a few extra BP. I also diverted some BP to the Contact as in our campaign contacts (and vehicles and lifestyles) are not applicable. *shrug* But i did imply checking him as an NPC. I certainly didn't ask if you'd let him play in your game as a PC. Frankly i value a stinking pile of dog crap more than the opinion on a PC of mine from someone that feel they must demand an explaination of a given set of Attributes. Want it? Stop being lazy and use your damn imagination.

*shrug* He never was much of a he-man, and really had to work hard to meet minimal standards. He also had more talking head posting as suit his skills and furthered by deliberate career choices on his part. He let things slide somewhat since basic training, and coupled with a few couple of nasty bouts of STDs since leaving military life he is somewhat fragile, yet still has his natural nimbleness.

Happy? Likely not, but i grow more than a little tired of trying to satisfy Dungeonmasters In Complete Kontrol (D.I.C.K.s) with lazy, stunted imaginations and even more stunted senses of fun. So if it isn't enough you can go get bent....especially since you actually give a partial possibility in your post.

An erroneous assertion. Note that there are negative qualities that can be used to represent even weaker constitutions, as well as permanently lost Essense, etc.

How's the rest of this post?

Very true

They should have had a note saying that leaving a stat at 1 required GM approval or even just have starting stats that were at human norm (3) and then give back some BP if you decide to lower your character's stat. So take 160 odd BP off starting characters and give them all starting stats of 3. If they restricted you to >1 then also only having a maximum of -1 to a starting stat.

I have to say I agree with Blakkie for making the character with a stat of 1 although the idea that he was in the military is questionable without some background info.

I hope the accountant you mention is the one which went hunting every weekend (and a fair amount of time at the firing range) for most of his life.

Because otherwise you are suggesting that someone can go from untrained to the best metahumanly possible without a natural aptitude in 4 months, without anything majorly eventful happening.

Which is just silly.

Also if we are talking high school students then I would be questioning them having extremely high magic skills, born gifted is really more the stats after all, and what it more comes down to is that they are in high school, it would take some justification to explain them having the experience and training that higher skills would require.

Well theres a difference between what you're describing ben and what blakkie had there.

I don't ask for justification of everything. I ask for a concept and i apply that concept to the sheet. If the sheet and concept don't mesh, as this didn't at first. I require explanation and justification. Blakkie after much mumbling and groaning that I just take the fun out of everything gave me that.

I want my players to build characters. Not just a sheet with numbers. I'd like them to put some thought into who that character is. Why they do what they do. What makes them tick ect. And all in all, because of that I, (have to use the word ushualy because of last session *mutters) ushualy, have a more enjoyable game because its not just throwing dice, its roleplaying.

If you came to me with the accountant who just got swept up in things character with assult rifles 6 and handed it to me I'm going to ask you how does your accountant have assult rifles 6. And if you turn and only give me the explanation, like blakkie did at first, 'because the rules say i can' I'm going to tell you to come back when you have a halfway decent explanation.

The rules are not a basis for rp. The rules are there to guide and mediate rp.

Heres the way I view the character creation proccess. Step one, come up with a good concept. Step two, build the sheet around the concept. Or in the case that you have a new trick you want to try in the system, build the sheet, then build the concept around the sheet, but build that concept so that it supports the sheet and is atleast somewhat believable.

I don't think it was too much to ask for blakkie to justify body 1 (2) with him being in the Tir military. He made a big deal out of it certainly. But when he gave a decent answer I've accepted it.

I'm sorry if my style of justify it when it completely doesn't fit your concept doesn't sit well with you but you're not likely to change my mind on it.

What about a guy modeled after Doc Holiday from the movie "Tombstone". That's a perfect example of a guy with a Body of 1 and a freakishly high agility.

And you can go that way certainly. As I said. If I see something out of place that just totaly doesn't fit, I ask for justification.

And I don't think I'd be penalizing you if I were to ask you to justify the demolitions with foam explosives as your specialty since well thats not a skill you'd pick up just anywhere since well most people never touch explosives like that.

You can go the route of weak skills and stats because they're easier to raise with karma. But don't expect them to go lightning quick up, even though the cost in karma would suggest they would, in my games. Training times...what you actualy used...things of that nature all play into things.

Not to mention I run skills abstractly and I apply what those levels of skills mean. Sure you have demolitions 1 (foam +2) despite having dice to make the roll you're not going to know how to place charges in order to get a building to implode. Nor would you know which support you should blow in order to cause the building to collapse. You're a novice who's only been shown and only learned on foam explosives so far.

And despite what some people think I don't consider that penalizing a player at all and never will. The player made the choice to have a low skill because it would be easier and cheaper to raise. But they have low skill and they're going to have to suffer through with that till they learn enough to raise it and become more compitent in that field.

I'd give him body 2 but thats me. And if thats the way you describe him I'd go with it. Though you're going to spend all your time on the floor if a fight breaks out

I asked for him to get checked out for being posted to an NPC list. But your D.I.C.K. instincts of cource kicked in. Fortunately i got one real good post out of the thread, which given DSF's pestilance is about par for the course.

Well you aren't the GM of me. I'm not coming to you as a player. So stop being a lazy ass.

....where upon i'd give you a warning that if you didn't stop being a weenie f#ckn#t either:
1) you'd seriously regret when it came my time behind the GM screen
2) i wouldn't bother playing at all with you sad, limited little weenieness.

After all, gee, he could'nt possibly get back into shape, could he? But of course that's all hypothetical as this is an NPC, and there is little chance i'd ever put up with an extended period of fun sucking crap from a GM like that.

How about the people around the table that demand more justification, be they GM or player, bear some of the responsibility for creating it? Why exactly couldn't YOU come up with the STD idea? Because you lack vision? Because you built a mental barrier in your mind? Because you think being a D.I.C.K. makes for a great game because it's the only way to force those damn bastard players to have fun?

I was hoping for some constructive critisism. Fortunately hahnsoo posted such and salvaged the thread, in spite of you.

...where upon you turned your brain off, and went into (remained in?) D.I.C.K mode.

So maybe you can stop worrying about it and let the rules take care of the rules?