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Lord Ben
What is the best cyberware package for the 250k? When building I took the obvious Wired 2 for initiative and cyberears eyes to I could communicate with the team.

Bioware I got primarily ones that increase stats. Anyone have any real good packages for the 250K?

So far I'm getting:

Cyberware:
Wired 2
Cyber Ears w/lots of goodies
Cyber Eyes w/lots of goodies
---------------
50k and 3.9E

Bioware:
Bone Density R4
Muscle Aug R2
Muscle Toner R2
Tailored Pheromones R2
Cerebral Boosters R2
---------------------
160k and 2.8E
Squinky
What are you going for with you're character? That would help a person pick the best...
Lord Ben
I was just wondering about typical stuff for combat, etc. Ways of starting with 5.99 and enough money to split a cheeseburger.. smile.gif

But for my character he's a Street Ninja. I would say Sam, but one guy in the group is actually RPing a sam with code of ethics and all that so I won't say I'm a Samurai.

Sort of a car theif/burglar who can sell his own stuff. Hardware 1 +2 maglocks, hacking 1 +2 cars, infiltration 4, negotiation 4.

Edit: And of course automatics at 5!
Fox1
QUOTE (Lord Ben @ Sep 28 2005, 09:27 AM)
But for my character he's a Street Ninja.  I would say Sam, but one guy in the group is actually RPing a sam with code of ethics and all that so I won't say I'm a Samurai.


Hmm, no "code of ethics"... unless you report to a higher authority, he sounds more like a cybered street thug than a ninja to me.

Maybe ninja has a different meaning in this setting?
calypso
How about a Street Ronin?

EDIT: Not to derail the thread further... sorry embarrassed.gif
Nikoli
even Ronin have their own code, as do ninja. Thug definitely sounds more appropriate.
Lord Ben
I'm basing it off this description: -

ninja - a group of men and women specially trained for espionage and assassination; generally drawn from the lower classes and used by the daimyo to assassinate enemies and penetrate enemy fortresses

But at any rate, I just mean the skill set, not actually a ninja with jumpsuit, etc. And no, I'm not a thug, I'm a shadowrunner.
Nikoli
Ninja also served to preserve order among the lower castes of Japan, when many Samurai would not be bothered to spend time among them. It's not always the case, but an orderly society serves the ninja better than lawlessness.
Lord Ben
Whatever their role in ancient Japan I see my role as mainly being able to be sneaky while getting inside a place, yet kick much butt on my way out the door when the alarm gets triggered.

And smell pretty when selling stuff... smile.gif
Squinky
Looking at your choices, you might consider Reflex Recorders or Platelete Factory. Other than that, I wouldn't know...
Nikoli
Then I'd recommend upping your Hardware, maybe going full electronics group as well as infiltration group over combat skills like automatics that are almost assurredly going to draw attention to yourself.
Fox1
QUOTE (Lord Ben)
And no, I'm not a thug, I'm a shadowrunner.

Without a code of ethics, I see no difference. In fact, I'd argue that even a shadowrunner needs a code of ethics- or they won't last long in the biz.

Depending upon the campaign, this may not be just a matter of word choice. The real owners of the 'titles' may take exception to street trash crowding in on their profession.

Also Johnsons and Fixers will use thugs for different types of missions than they'd use Ninja or Samurai.

Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (Fox1)
QUOTE (Lord Ben @ Sep 28 2005, 09:43 AM)
And no, I'm not a thug, I'm a shadowrunner.

Without a code of ethics, I see no difference. In fact, I'd argue that even a shadowrunner needs a code of ethics- or they won't last long in the biz.

Depending upon the campaign, this may not be just a matter of word choice. The real owners of the 'titles' may take exception to street trash crowding in on their profession.

Also Johnsons and Fixers will use thugs for different types of missions than they'd use Ninja or Samurai.

not nessicarily true. There'd be plenty of biz...just all of it unsavory and not the type most shadowrunning groups would want. Ie, go burn down that orphanage and make sure all the kids and staff burn to death inside so we can build our shopping mall.
Lord Ben
I just mean that one of hte characters is a native Japanese who follows Bushido, which is why I wanted to stay away from the Samurai term. Also, in our campaign we use the street same term to relate to any non-magic gun-bunny.

And yes, I'd have a code of ethics. Just not Bushido.
Fox1
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet)
not nessicarily true. There'd be plenty of biz...just all of it unsavory and not the type most shadowrunning groups would want. Ie, go burn down that orphanage and make sure all the kids and staff burn to death inside so we can build our shopping mall.

I was also thinking they'd get more of the 'expendable' asset jobs. After all, since they would turn on you (the Johnson) given the chance- why not use them for those tasks most likely to whack the runners on it.

Beats losing the futures services of a honorable team.

Hence my "not last long" comment.

Fox1
QUOTE (Lord Ben @ Sep 28 2005, 10:59 AM)
And yes, I'd have a code of ethics.  Just not Bushido.


The actual Bushido code?

The term "Street Samurai" generally refers to those who follow what could be called a 'watered down' version of Bushido. One can claim this term without conflict with one who claims he is Samurai (note the lack of "street" before the title).

Btw, I would not expect a character who actually followed the full Bushido code to last long in Shadowrun. His honor would soon demand his own death. But that depends of course upon the details of the exact campaign.
Lord Ben
I'm sure his will be watered down and he won't be splitting his guts anytime soon to preserve honor but he's taken to bonzai tree pruning and haiku writing during his spare time.

At any rate, Ninja is just the term I choose to say that I'm a stealthy street guy (with the chameleon suit) who's not quite the same as the Samurai. Yes, I'll be keeping my word and having a code of honor.

At any rate though, mostly I was just looking for various Cyberwear templates that could be used in an all-purpose combat role.
Kremlin KOA
QUOTE (Fox1)
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 28 2005, 10:50 AM)
not nessicarily true.  There'd be plenty of biz...just all of it unsavory and not the type most shadowrunning groups would want.  Ie, go burn down that orphanage and make sure all the kids and staff burn to death inside so we can build our shopping mall.

I was also thinking they'd get more of the 'expendable' asset jobs. After all, since they would turn on you (the Johnson) given the chance- why not use them for those tasks most likely to whack the runners on it.

Beats losing the futures services of a honorable team.

Hence my "not last long" comment.

Silly wabbit

you don't expend such people

you look at the run and engineer it such thast it is in the honorless ninja's best interests to do things your way.

Remember it is the SOP of the Mr Johnson divisins in the meacorps to assume that ALL shadowrunners will turn on their johnson given the chance

the no code of ethics guy is actually LESS likely to turn on his J because he will never find his ethics clashing with his job
Shadow_Prophet
Well actualy He might be inclined to screw/kill the johnson after he gets paid since he has no ethics and well he already got paid. So yeah I'd use them kinda more as expendable assets. They're far more unpredictable.
Lord Ben
Ethics and common sense are not mutually exclusive.
Conskill
I have only once seen a player actually try to play up an honorable runner route in my games. Most "honorable runner" concepts I've come across are simply criminals who won't commit a crime against humanity. Usually.

Of course, the archetypical shadowrun has the PCs steal, destroy, kidnap, and murder on the whim of their faceless, souless corporate masters for money. Given that, I'm not surprised that the PCs are generally bad people who are only seen as honorable by contrast with the even worse people they assoicate with.

Still, the idea amuses me and I continue to wait for the day someone declares "I toss the defenseless thug a weapon and draw my knife." instead of "I take out my SMG and fire two bursts at the defenseless thug."
Nikoli
I've played characters like that. Now, mind you the thugs usually were not defenseless, that halitosis was murder...
Fox1
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 28 2005, 11:50 AM)
Well actualy He might be inclined to screw/kill the johnson after he gets paid since he has no ethics and well he already got paid.  So yeah I'd use them kinda more as expendable assets.  They're far more unpredictable.

Yep, very expendable.

Controlling a shadowrunner over the long term is difficult without the assistance of an ethical code. Given that a betrayal can happen long after the run itself, as a Johnson I'd be highly interested in ridding myself of a possible loose cannon.

So if a run requires a diversion or the like where the muscle is likely to die, I know who I'd pick for the run. And I can also view it as a public service, something to ease my mind about my own sins in the biz. Even if the word got out, most shadowrunners would likely consider it a good thing, the scum who gives them a bad name is gone and it their leaving even helped the more honorable team.

So, short ugly jobs are good for them. And jobs where they are expected to die and/or get captured.

Save the high end missions for the honorable teams. Just be sure not to appear to shaft them from your end or you may as a matter of honor become their target.
Fox1
QUOTE (Conskill)
Still, the idea amuses me and I continue to wait for the day someone declares "I toss the defenseless thug a weapon and draw my knife." instead of "I take out my SMG and fire two bursts at the defenseless thug."


You wouldn't have to want long in the campaign I'm in.

But I'll have to say that in many ways it's not a typical shadowrun campaign.

Lord Ben
Well, a Johnson should be just as worried as the PC's are about his own reputation. A Johnson who gets teams killed will have a hard time finding people to do work for him.

Or at least he should.
Azralon
QUOTE (Lord Ben)
Ethics and common sense are not mutually exclusive.

It's also important to note that ethics and morality are not the same thing.

Morality is what prevents you from kicking puppies and sleeping with your cousin. In Shadowrun, too much morality is a liability. You are, by definition, criminals. If you have trouble with breaking the law then you're in the wrong business. You can still have morals and be a 'runner; it's just that you're going to find them inconvenient more often than not.

Ethics, on the other hand, are the mark of a professional. It's good "work ethic" to not kill your Fixer nor your teammates because that's ultimately bad for business. It's good ethic to not demand too many details from your contacts because doing so might rupture their trust in you. It's good ethic to be prompt to your meetings as well as to quietly scope out the meeting place beforehand and have at least one escape plan. It's good ethic to not piss off your Johnson when getting a job offer, just like it's good ethic for him to not piss you off.

As a rule of thumb, good morals get you into Heaven. Good ethics get you more jobs.
Fox1
QUOTE (Lord Ben)
Well, a Johnson should be just as worried as the PC's are about his own reputation. A Johnson who gets teams killed will have a hard time finding people to do work for him.

Or at least he should.


Depends upon the team now doesn't it?

Many shadowrunners would agree with the Johnson in ridding their profession of the worse scum.

Also depends upon what the word on the street is. If one is going to rid oneself of scum, it pays to do it in such a way that it doesn't trace back to you. Thus the use of a one-shot stand-in and other methods to deflect blame.

Besides even if it does get out, just say the thugs screwed up and fought when they shouldn't have. Who's going to take the word of known dishonorable trash over a Johnson who has a perfect rep with the known honorable teams he works with.

Azralon
This has gotten way off topic from the OP's intent, and for that I'm sorry. smile.gif

I, too, have been bothered that "street samurai" ended up as the term to describe cybernetic combat characters.... whether they have a code of honor or not. You'll see me use terms like "razorguy" or "vatjob" in my posts more often than "samurai" for just that reason.

Back in the day, it was a mark of honor and respect for a "street sam" to fight fairly. I remember the prefaced fiction in the earlier editions mentioning someone getting disarmed, and the opposing sammy putting away draw firearms to meet them in melee. That was a street samurai to me.

Maybe it was a creative holdover from FASA's BattleTech clans, built to balance out an "overpowered" character type. I don't know. I do know that street bushido is all but dead, which is probably fine since SR4 vatjobs aren't near as unbalanced as they used to be.
Fortune
To try and actually address the original question, here is the 'wares list for one of my latest characters ...

QUOTE
Bioware
Muscle Augmentation - 2 [.4]
Muscle Toner - 2 [.4]
Orthoskin - 3 [.75]
Platelet Factory [.2]
Reflex Recorder - Pistols [.1]
Reflex Recorder - Unarmed Combat [.1] = [1.95] (halved = .975)

Cyberware
Cyberears [.3 - 8 capacity]
- Sound Link
- Ear Recorder Unit
- Audio Enhancement 3 [3 cap]
- Damper [1 cap]
- Select sound Filter 4 [4 cap]
Cybereyes [.4 - 12 capacity]
- Image Link
- Eye Recording Unit
- Low Light Vision [2 cap]
- Protective Covers
- Smartlink [3 cap]
- Thermographic Vision [2 cap]
- Flare Compensation [1 cap]
- Vision Enhancement 3 [3 cap]
Datajack [.1]
Plastic Bone Lacing [.5]
Reaction Enhancers - 2 [.6]
Wired Reflexes - 2 [3.0] = [4.9]


Total remaining Essence = 0.125 biggrin.gif
Fox1
QUOTE (Azralon @ Sep 28 2005, 01:12 PM)
I, too, have been bothered that "street samurai" ended up as the term to describe cybernetic combat characters.... whether they have a code of honor or not.  You'll see me use terms like "razorguy" or "vatjob" in my posts more often than "samurai" for just that reason.

I like the razor tag, makes sense and its to the point.

As to street bushido being dead in 4th edition, I would imagine so too would be the name street samurai. But who says the world needs to make sense.

Man I'm not liking anything I'm hearing about 4th edition. I'm going to mope for a couple of minutes now. frown.gif
Azralon
Well, it doesn't have to be dead. You can keep it alive and kicking in your campaign. It just doesn't seem to be emphasized as heavily in the source material.

SR4 is a breath of fresh air compared to the powercreep and rules complexities of the previous editions. smile.gif Just cuz we're all gripy and jaded on the forums, and we jump up and down indignantly over the slightest perceived game imbalance, doesn't mean the system sucks.

I mean, this is the internet. We're all whiny in here. biggrin.gif
Fox1
QUOTE (Azralon)
I mean, this is the internet. We're all whiny in here. biggrin.gif


Very good point that, heck it even includes me smile.gif

It's not the rules that are unsettling me. I've already replaced all those because of various problems with them.

It's the changes in the setting.
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