In the wake of the crash, forged SINs had the possibility to become the real thing.
Now in SR4, having a real SIN, however that happened, is a 5 BP negative Quality - and there is nothing that forbids having that Quality more than once.
Let's assume that a character had five forged SINs (clean ones) becoming real in different nations - does this mean he has the SINer Quality five times?
As those SINs hardly carry any unwanted data this seems... strange - as even forged SINs that are not deleted will accumulate as much.
Full Version: SINner
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Oct 3 2005, 01:49 AM) |
| In the wake of the crash, forged SINs had the possibility to become the real thing. Now in SR4, having a real SIN, however that happened, is a 5 BP negative Quality - and there is nothing that forbids having that Quality more than once. Let's assume that a character had five forged SINs (clean ones) becoming real in different nations - does this mean he has the SINer Quality five times? As those SINs hardly carry any unwanted data this seems... strange - as even forged SINs that are not deleted will accumulate as much. |
Reasonably, a real SIN is a negative quality because all of your personal information is tied to it. Having a real SIN means that The Man knows where you live, what you buy, how often you flush, and ect. If a SIN doesn't contain your actual data then it isn't a real SIN. If The Man unquestioningly accepts that I am #J7Y6689765, Herman Munster, at 1313 Mockingbird Lane, that doesn't mean that this is a real SIN. It is a fake SIN that will pass most, if not all, machine inspections. Metahumans with the 20th century Sitcoms knowledge skill may recognize that the identity is likely to be fake.
That's about how I would rule it:
No liability - no points.
Even if that SIN is 'real' in the way that it will never blow - as we all know: The Man does not make mistakes.
No liability - no points.
Even if that SIN is 'real' in the way that it will never blow - as we all know: The Man does not make mistakes.
Good fake SINs are real SINs without real people attached.
SINner negative quality means there is a real SIN with a real person attached.
I would not allow multiple SINner negative qualities based primarily on the fact that if someone has enough informaton to track down your real identity, they can eventually get to the database, corp or government, which will have the full match to your data.
SINner negative quality means there is a real SIN with a real person attached.
I would not allow multiple SINner negative qualities based primarily on the fact that if someone has enough informaton to track down your real identity, they can eventually get to the database, corp or government, which will have the full match to your data.
A real SIN is linked to you, and through you, to your family, friends etc. It has your real fingerprints/DNA etc associated with it.
If Lonestar gets hold of a DNA sample from a run you did, they have something in the system to link it to. Even if it doesn't help catch you, it will help them throw away the key when they finally do catch you
If someone less nice than a Lonestar beatcop finds out your real SIN, they have a potential doorway to the things and people you love, even if you left them behind years ago when you entered the shadows.
A fake real SIN doesn't have any of those problems
If Lonestar gets hold of a DNA sample from a run you did, they have something in the system to link it to. Even if it doesn't help catch you, it will help them throw away the key when they finally do catch you
If someone less nice than a Lonestar beatcop finds out your real SIN, they have a potential doorway to the things and people you love, even if you left them behind years ago when you entered the shadows.
A fake real SIN doesn't have any of those problems
Hmmm... since some qualities specifically state that they can be taken more than once, and some specifically state that they can't be taken more than once - where does that leave the rest?
(My interpretation is that no qualities can be taken more than once unless it's stated that they can (like Incompetence) - those who have special clarification that they can't are the ones that apply to a specific attribute or skill, to clarify that they can't be taken once for each skill/attribute)
(My interpretation is that no qualities can be taken more than once unless it's stated that they can (like Incompetence) - those who have special clarification that they can't are the ones that apply to a specific attribute or skill, to clarify that they can't be taken once for each skill/attribute)
Well .. maybe you can have more than one SIN, but everytime you try and use one ... there is a check for fraud.... eventually you could land in Jail.... so sure, take more than one SIN.
You can have multiple citizenship even in SR4 - it's just unusual. 
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| You can have multiple citizenship even in SR4 - it's just unusual. |
When The Man stops to talk to you 'unusual', legal or not, can get you a room in the back complete with an overly affectionate man wearing latex gloves.
Questionable.
| QUOTE (SR4 p. 259) |
| Though rare, dual citizenship (such as UCAS/Ares) is possible; in such cases, you would have two separate SINs. Some corporations and nations, however, will revoke your citizenship if you become a citizen of another country or corporation. |
Just because you have a SiN doesn't mean you still live where it says you do; you can just leave without posting a forwarding address. What the SiNner flaw does is allow authorities a chance to connect you with something, and provides a concrete link. For example, if a character leaves fingerprints or other identifiable remains behind at a scene, a corp or law enforcement now has evidence to link them to the scene of a crime. A false SiN is designed to get past a casual inspection, and be a throw away identity. Having a real one that you can't shake means you're much more likely to be caught, particularly if that identity is linked to your false ones.
Is there anything that keeps me from modifying my real SIN? It shouldn't be a problem to hack my SIN and change my finger- and retinaprints. ( Provided I have a trustworthy hacker at hand. ) Of course I couldn't actually use the SIN anymore, but I could set my data back at my retirement.
| QUOTE (Doc Byte) |
| Is there anything that keeps me from modifying my real SIN? It shouldn't be a problem to hack my SIN and change my finger- and retinaprints. ( Provided I have a trustworthy hacker at hand. ) Of course I couldn't actually use the SIN anymore, but I could set my data back at my retirement. |
As a GM I'd give you 2 options if you elected to try that
1) Pay off the negative quality (double BP cost = Karma Cost) and you dump the SIN
2) Pay off the negative quality (double BP cost = Karma Cost) and you then can class the SIN as a useable "fake" SIN.
The advantage with 2 is that the SIN is still active and so continues to gather social data (purchase history etc) and so will look less like a fake over time. Option 1 has the advantage of you now being zeroed although should you ever decide to resurect the SIN (by reversing the changes you made) I would make it very hard and not give a very good result (yes sir your ID checks out but we'd like to ask you a few questions about where you lived for the last 4 years and why you seem to not have done anything in that time period - where is your tax return type of stuff!)
The only thing that prevents you doing the changes is the difficulty of actually getting it done (finding that trustworthy hacker, finding the nuyen to pay him/her/them, finding them afterward to kill them because they weren't as trustworthy as you thought etc). Modifying a SIN is harder than making a new "fake" SIN but infinitely more stable (the depth of information present in a real SIN is beyond all but the most dedicated hacker to replicate - it would take days/months to create the info and be as seemless as a real one)
| QUOTE |
| As a GM I'd give you 2 options if you elected to try that 1) Pay off the negative quality (double BP cost = Karma Cost) and you dump the SIN 2) Pay off the negative quality (double BP cost = Karma Cost) and you then can class the SIN as a useable "fake" SIN. |
You forgot option 3: Don't pay karma, and get stuck with the "Hunted" or "Wanted" flaws (Negative Qualities now) from the old SR companion. That's what happens when you don't take the time and energy to do it right, and try to just fake it with a few die rolls.
| QUOTE (evil1i) |
| I would make it very hard and not give a very good result (yes sir your ID checks out but we'd like to ask you a few questions about where you lived for the last 4 years and why you seem to not have done anything in that time period - where is your tax return type of stuff!) |
The trick there is to have the hacker who modifies your SIN put a a record of you purchasing a ticket on Oceanic flight 815 in the relevant databases.
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