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calypso
It's absurd. If an augmented skill can't go above 1.5 * the base skill, it renders a lot of things useless/overpriced.

1) Don't bother buying a specialization unless you have at least 2 ranks in something. If you only have 1 rank, the augmented max is... 1. In fact, you don't even get the full benefit from a specialization until you have a base rank of 4!

2) There is NO point in ever having Improved Ability at a rank higher than 3. And if you have Improved Ability in something, don't bother with specializations. They'll go to waste.

3) Codeslinger is practically useless. Basically, it allows you to get a second specialization in some Matrix action. But it suffers from the same problems as in (1).

4) The book violates these principles all over the place.

I therefore propose an ALTERNATE interpretation. First, the passage in question:

"The unmodified skill rating assigned at character creation
or purchased during game play is considered to be the characterís
base skill rating. Some spells, abilities and implants may
provide bonus dice to a skill, creating a modified skill rating,
but this does not change the base skill rating. These extra dice
are listed in parentheses after the base skill, as in Spellcasting
4 (+2). A modified skill cannot exceed the base skill rating x
1.5 (making 9 the maximum possible rating, or 10 with the
Aptitude Quality)."

The current interpretation says: You cannot have more things adding to a particular skill roll than .5 * base skill. So if you have Pistol (Revolver) 6(+2), and Improved Ability (Pistol) 2, you would only be rolling 9 + Attribute dice.

I propose a different interpretation. It states: "Some spells, abilities and implants may provide bonus dice to a skill, creating a modified skill rating, but this does not change the base skill rating. These extra dice are listed in parentheses after the base skill, as in Spellcasting 4 (+2)". Specializations don't "provide bonus dice to a skill". They provide bonus dice to a particular use of a skill. (I'm rules lawyering. I want my 25 dice on Exploit damnit biggrin.gif) So, unless something adds dice to ALL uses of a skill, it doesn't count towards the 1.5 * Base Skill cap.

That still leaves the problem that Improved Ability beyond Rating 3 is useless, but, one problem at a time.

Calypso
blakkie
QUOTE (calypso @ Oct 5 2005, 03:40 PM)
It's absurd.  If an augmented skill can't go above 1.5 * the base skill, it renders a lot of things useless/overpriced.

1)  Don't bother buying a specialization unless you have at least 2 ranks in something.  If you only have 1 rank, the augmented max is... 1.  In fact, you don't even get the full benefit from a specialization until you have a base rank of 4!

Umm, you misunderstand what the augmented limit is. It is not dependant on how many ranks you have in a skill.

QUOTE
That still leaves the problem that Improved Ability beyond Rating 3 is useless, but, one problem at a time.


Actually, as was pointed out elsewhere Improved Ability does have a use if you only raise your skill to 5. Although for combat skills the cost of 0.5 Magic is pretty close to a push compared to the 12 karma to raise the Skill to 6.
Lord Ben
My DM even counts smartlink towards this limit!
calypso
QUOTE (blakkie @ Oct 5 2005, 04:45 PM)

Umm, you misunderstand what the augmented limit is.  It is not dependant on how many ranks you have in a skill.

Yes it is.

"A modified skill cannot exceed the base skill rating x 1.5 (making 9 the maximum possible rating, or 10 with the Aptitude Quality)."

An earlier part of the same passage states:

"The unmodified skill rating assigned at character creation or purchased during game play is considered to be the characterís base skill rating."

So, your unmodified skill rating is your base skill rating. And your modified skill cannot exceed your base skill rating x 1.5. So, if you have 2 ranks, your modified skill limit is 3.

Calypso
blakkie
Oops, i was confused with attribute maxs that are 1.5 the natural max (thought skills were too). So ya, -IF- Specializations are included in the cap they don't have full benefit till you reach higher Skill levels. But like a lot of things it's not super clear exactly what is included in the cap. Basically they didn't use as consistant terminology as they should have.

P.S. I'm pretty sure there was a Specialization in/out of cap thread, and thought that it was determined that Specialization was likely NOT included under the cap but still was open to a number of interpretation including interpretation that it was included as part of the natural skill....which brings entirely different results.
blakkie
QUOTE (Lord Ben @ Oct 5 2005, 03:46 PM)
My DM even counts smartlink towards this limit!

Because the wording is rather vague, and your DM is being a dork. wink.gif

P.S. Does he include laser sights and tracer bonuses in under the cap?
NightmareX
Meh, there's an easier way to deal with the issue. Take this rule...

QUOTE
"The unmodified skill rating assigned at character creation
or purchased during game play is considered to be the characterís
base skill rating. Some spells, abilities and implants may
provide bonus dice to a skill, creating a modified skill rating,
but this does not change the base skill rating. These extra dice
are listed in parentheses after the base skill, as in Spellcasting
4 (+2). A modified skill cannot exceed the base skill rating x
1.5 (making 9 the maximum possible rating, or 10 with the
Aptitude Quality)."


...and just throw it right out the window. Followed, of course, by this one...

QUOTE (SR4 page 264)
Characters can only improve skills or skill groups to a
maximum of 6, unless they already possess the Aptitude quality
for a skill. (Sorry, you canít acquire Aptitude at the same time
you try to improve above the maximum.)
Fortune
QUOTE
"The unmodified skill rating assigned at character creation
or purchased during game play is considered to be the characterís
base skill rating. Some spells, abilities and implants may
provide bonus dice to a skill, creating a modified skill rating,

but this does not change the base skill rating. These extra dice
are listed in parentheses after the base skill, as in Spellcasting
4 (+2).
A modified skill cannot exceed the base skill rating x
1.5 (making 9 the maximum possible rating, or 10 with the
Aptitude Quality)."


It does specify some. Maybe it only applies when the modifier is specifically listed in parentheses after the Skill. What else, besides Specialization (which is a dumb inclusion itself), would this include?
calypso
QUOTE (Fortune)
It does specify some. Maybe it only applies when the modifier is specifically listed in parentheses after the Skill. What else, besides Specialization (which is a dumb inclusion itself), would this include?

Unfortunately, the "some" applies to the spells/abilities/cyberware. In the sense of "some, not all, spells provide bonus dice".

And, specializations don't provide a bonus such that you could write it as a straightforward +2 in parentheses. There is a conditional, which in my mind throws it out.

Calypso
elbows
As a GM, my take on this would be to apply the cap only to things I don't have to determine on the fly. Not because there's anything in the rules that implies this, but simply for the sake of my own sanity. If I (or the players), have to remember to apply the (1.5 * skill) cap while stacking up modifiers during play, we will forget it at least half the time, so I'd rather just throw the rule out entirely.

This means smartlinks, laser sights and specializations are not subject to the cap, because they may or may not apply depending on circumstances.

On the other hand, things like reflex recorders are written down on your character sheet, so I would apply the cap there. The same goes for Improved Ability, except that the description of it confuses things by seeming to override the cap.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (calypso)
It's absurd.

It was even more absurd to have 1 in a skill and boosting that skill to 5 with implants back in SR3.

This implementation of a limit may not be near perfect, but at least it keeps things in check.
calypso
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
QUOTE (calypso @ Oct 5 2005, 11:40 PM)
It's absurd.

It was even more absurd to have 1 in a skill and boosting that skill to 5 with implants back in SR3.

This implementation of a limit may not be near perfect, but at least it keeps things in check.

What's wrong with that? Of course you're better at something than you should be, you have specialized clusters of cells dedicated to that skill. If they were taken out, you would STILL only have a 1.

Calypso
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (calypso @ Oct 6 2005, 04:54 PM)
What's wrong with that? Of course you're better at something than you should be, you have specialized clusters of cells dedicated to that skill.  If they were taken out, you would STILL only have a 1.

Without a basic level of technique, a better heart or better joints would mean nearly no improvement that huge - modified spinal reflexes might, but that alone wouldn't be absurd. wink.gif

SR4 does enforce such a basic level of technique for getting the benefit out of such modifications/abilities.
Nikoli
Um in SR3 if you had skill at 1 you could not raise with improved ability past 1 anyway.
mfb
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
It was even more absurd to have 1 in a skill and boosting that skill to 5 with implants back in SR3.

how did you manage that? the only skills i know of that you could accomplish that with are language skills.
Serbitar
House Rules
Wireknight
Well, there are a few places in SR3 where you can do this.

Athletics has a number of sources of bonus dice: +1 for Enhanced Articulation, +1 per level of Synthacardium, +1 for Reflex Recorder, +2 for Oxygenated Flourocarbon blood replacement treatment, +2 for circulating the Oxy-Rush transient nanosystem, +2 for the erythropoeitin genetech, +1 per level of Move-By-Wire. If you had all of the above, with maximum levels in those that possess levels, you could have +14 dice, for what would amount to an effective Athletics of 1(15).

If you're some kind of freakish initiated nanoaugmented cyborg bioware-equipped adept who uses the last sliver of his magical power (which would almost have to come from one or more initiate grades, since your low Essence and high Bio Index throw you so far into the red) to further augment your inexplicably low natural athletics skill, you could even hit 1(16).

Stealth can do this also, thanks to move-by-wire, reflex recorder, and enhanced articulation. You could achieve +6 dice with this method, for a stealth of 1(7), or 1(8) if you are the aforementioned unskilled cybered adept Solid Snake wannabee.

Knowledge skills can be boosted by the presence of a mnemonic enhancer, and further augmented by the task pool provided by certain cyberware and bioware augmentations. Due to the nature of the situations and skills to which a task pool ended up applying, a task pool was effectively bonus dice to any given skill to which the task pool was applied. With a task pool of 3 (Cerebral Booster 2 and Encephalon 2), and Mnemonic Enhancer 3, you could effectively boost Knowledge and Language skills in a similar fashion to Athletics and Stealth.

The remaining skills tend to only be able to accumulate a +2 dice bonus with the best of circumstances.
Rotbart van Dainig
The specific example, as one might guess from the post was Athletics: Synthacardium (2) +2, Reflex Recorder (Athletics) +1 and enhanced Articulation +1 -> +4.
Azralon
If I understand correctly, the skill cap refers to only direct modifiers to the skill from implants, adept powers, and spells.

The cap does not seem to apply to pool modifiers, just skill. Pool modifiers such as superior position, visibility modifiers, reach, smartlinks, and the like should not impact the skill cap at all.

That is to say, if you have something that gives a "+X modifier to Y skill" then it obeys the skill cap. If you have something that gives a "+X modifier to Y test" then it does not.

At least, I'm hoping it's that simple.
Rotbart van Dainig
Not that simple, as it caps pool modifiers for skills. wink.gif

But basically, yes - if the bonus is applied to a specific skill, it is capped... if it is an unspecific bonus or listed otherwise as a general modifier, it isn't.
Azralon
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Oct 6 2005, 01:48 PM)
Not that simple, as it caps pool modifiers for skills.

Not exactly, nah.

Your base skill can never be higher than 6 (or 7 with Aptitude). You can never have more than a +3 skill bonus to that skill, and only when the base skill rating is 6 (or 7). Skill specializations add +2 to the skill, so count towards the skill cap.

The "Aimed Shot" action grants a pool bonus to the roll but not the skill itself, so would not count towards the skill cap. Nor would Smartlinks (yes, they can be implants, but they offer a ranged combat modifier rather than a skill bonus).

So: Your pool consists of "your Skill and its bonuses (which are capped)" plus "your Attribute and its bonuses (which are capped)" plus "your pool modifiers (which are not capped)."

Lemme toss out an example using the facts as I understand them (for good or ill).

~~~~~

"Six Shooter," the gunslinging street sam, buys up his Pistols skill to 6 and takes his specialization in Revolvers. He's rolling 6+2 dice when using his favorite firearms.

He goes out and gets Reflex Recorder (Pistols), which states that it adds +1 to his Pistol skill. If he were to fire a semi-automatic sidearm, he'd be rolling 6 (base) + 1 (reflex recorder) skill dice in addition to his Agility and its own capped attribute modifiers. If he were to use his sixguns, he'd be rolling 6 (base) + 2 (specialization) + 1 (reflex recorder), plus Agility and attribute modifiers.

Note that he's now rolling 9 dice, which is 150% of his base skill. If for some reason he suddenly sprouted adept powers, they could not further boost his Revolver skill dice but they could give him a +2 bonus for other types of pistols.

In any case, he would still get +2 dice from a Smartlink (whether on goggles or an implant) because that bonus isn't a skill modifier; it's a pool modifier. Therefore it is not subject to the skill cap.

So, Six Shooter can pick up ol' Bessy and roll Agility:4 + Pistols:9 + Smartlink:2 = 15 dice.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Azralon)
Skill specializations add +2 to the skill, so count towards the skill cap.

QUOTE (SR4 p. 109 Specializations)
Specializations add 2 dice to any tests made for that skill when the specialization is applicable to the test.

So no, the don't add to skill, they add to dice pool - possibly creating an Augmented Skill Rating.
calypso
QUOTE (Azralon @ Oct 6 2005, 01:20 PM)
Skill specializations add +2 to the skill, so count towards the skill cap. 

The "Aimed Shot" action grants a pool bonus to the roll but not the skill itself, so would not count towards the skill cap.

Aimed shot: "Characters who aim receive a +1 dice pool modifier per Simple Action spent aiming."

Specialization: "Specializations add 2 dice to any tests made for that skill when the specialization is applicable to the test."

As you can see, neither one adds to the skill. They both add dice to your pool for a specific roll.

Calypso

EDIT: Rotbart beat me to it by seconds biggrin.gif
Rotbart van Dainig
There's the fine point:
QUOTE (SR4 p. 109 Skill Ratings)
Some spells, abilities and implants may provide bonus dice to a skill, creating a modified skill rating, but this does not change the base skill rating.
Synner
Just for clarification. You're talking about three different things here:
Attribute modifiers (which are usually listed in parenthesis besides the attribute as a single value and are capped);
Skill rating modifiers (which are usually listed in parenthesis besides the skill as a single value and are capped);
and Dice Pool modifiers (which are not listed on as part of either of the above and are not capped).

The latter are situational are never listed in parenthesis (ie. smartgun links and laser sights), they modify your dice pool after augmented Atts and Skills have been added together.
Squinky
One thing I've been wondering lately is this:

If I am playing an gun adept, with pistols 6 and 4 points of improved ability, thats 1 point over my cap right? Is that a bad thing? Wouldn't it help negate negative dice modifiers?

So I attack with 9 dice normally, but if I get a -1 die it would just soak it right?
calypso
Here's the real issue - Improved Ability, which by all accounts should be subject to the skill cap, is worded thusly: "Improved Ability does not actually improve a skillís rating, it only provides additional dice for tests involving the skill."

The same as smartlinks, the same as specializations, etc.

Calypso
Rotbart van Dainig
Nothing actually improves a Skill Rating. wink.gif

But, as quoted: It provides bonus dice to a specific skill, so it is capped ans an Augmented Skill Rating.
calypso
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
Nothing actually improves a Skill Rating. wink.gif

But, as quoted: It provides bonus dice to a specific skill, so it is capped ans an Augmented Skill Rating.

Right. So my point is: Improved Ability simply adds dice to the use of a skill, and is capped. Smartlink also adds dice to the use of a skill, and shouldn't be capped? If that is the case (which I believe it is), there needs to be solid justification for it.

Calypso
Rotbart van Dainig
First, Smartlink is not skill-specific.
Second, it is explicitly listed as an Modifier.
Third, it isn't even necessarily an implant...
calypso
Okay, so now we need to do that for everything that adds dice. You're missing my overall point, which is: there are lots of things which add dice to skill uses. Which of those are subject to the cap? The book is all kinds of unclear.

Calypso
DireRadiant
My entirely personal interpretation and house rule would be to declare the total amount of dice that can be rolled related to the skill portion of attribute + skill is 1.5 Skill cap. But that having extra dice can help offset penalties. This give a bonus to people who will modify over the cap, they have extra dice they can lose "off the top". The general affect would be in good conditions no one rolls more then ten dice for Skill, but that as the conditions worsen, the person with the most augmentation and positive modifiers will do better then someone who has less augmentation.
Azralon
The point was to illustrate the differences between those three things by listing them and showing that only 2 out of the 3 were capped.

The sticking point for me is defining which of the 3 categories a bonus falls into. It's pretty easy to tell when something is an attribute modifier versus a skill modifier, but it's hard to tell sometimes (due to inexact or otherwise nonexplicit wording) when something is a dice pool modifier.

Like skill specializations -- by their nature they imply (at least to one interpretation) that they're a specialized bonus to a skill. However, the explicitly defined list of things that count towards skill caps are: implants, adept powers, and spells.

The RAW says skill specializations "add 2 dice to any tests made for that skill," which sounds exactly like the definition of a skill bonus. By comparison, a reflex recorder "adds a +1 dice pool bonus to a specific skill or skill group." That's invoking the "dice pool bonus" term as well as "specific skill" reference.

I wouldn't be pulling my hair out if they had just declared rigid terminology and used it consistently.
Azralon
.... Like it'd be cool if they had clearly labeled things as either:

1) Skill modifier
2) Attribute modifier
3) Pool modifier

Then when they declared #1 and #2 capped at 150% of the base ratings, we'd know exactly where the line was drawn.

calypso
QUOTE (Azralon)
.... Like it'd be cool if they had clearly labeled things as either:

1) Skill modifier
2) Attribute modifier
3) Pool modifier

Then when they declared #1 and #2 capped at 150% of the base ratings, we'd know exactly where the line was drawn.

Maybe they'll do that in SR5 rotfl.gif
Azralon
Heh. smile.gif
Siege
Several key points of the SR4 character gen system is inherently designed to apply controls on character creation.

The cap on skill dice is a similar example - it doesn't make a lot of sense except to try and apply constraints on what kind of insanity players can bring to the table.

-Siege
calypso
So, would someone be willing to write a preliminary "Subject to Skill Cap/Not Subject to Skill Cap" list that we can then argue over?
Azralon
QUOTE (calypso)
So, would someone be willing to write a preliminary "Subject to Skill Cap/Not Subject to Skill Cap" list that we can then argue over?

Well phrased. smile.gif
DireRadiant
( ) = Implied Attribute or Skill boost, otherwise it is explicit in the description
Attribute Modifiers
- Adept Power
-- Attribute Boost AGI|BOD|REA|STR p 187
-- Combat Sense REA p 187
-- Enhanced Perception (INT) p 187
-- Great Leap (AGI) p 187
-- Improved Physical Attribute AGI|BOD|REA|STR p 187
-- Improved Reflexes REA p 188
-- Rapid Healing BOD p 189
- Magic
-- Combat Sense REA p 198
-- Decrease Attribute AGI|BOD|REA|STR|INT|LOG|CHA|WIL p 200
-- Increase Attribute AGI|BOD|REA|STR|INT|LOG|CHA|WIL p 200
-- Increase Reflexes INI p200
-- Oxygenate BOD p 200
- Cyberware
-- Muscle Replacement STR + AGI p 334
-- Reaction Enhancer REA p 334
-- Wired Reflexes REA p 335
-- Cyber Limb BOD|STR|AGI p 336
- Bioware
-- Adrenal Pump STR + AGI + REA + WIL p338
-- Bone Density Augmentation BOD p 338
-- Muscle Augmentation STR p 339
-- Muscle Toner AGI p339
-- Suprathyroid Gland BOD + AGI + REA + STR p 339
-- Cerebral Booster LOG p 339
-- Pain Editor WIL p 340


Skill Modifiers
- Adept Power
-- Improved Ability p 187
- Magic
-- Analyze Device p 200
- Cyberware
-- Control Rig VEHICLE p 331
-- Skillwires ALL p 335
- Bioware
-- Enhanced Articulation PHYSICAL SKILL + PHYISCAL ATTRIBUTE p 338
-- Synthacardium ATHLETICS p 339
-- Tailored Pheromones CHARISMA + SOCIAL p 339
-- Reflex recorder PHYSICAL COMBAT p 340
-- Synaptic Booster REA p 340

Pool Modifiers
- Adept Power
-- Improved Sense p 188
-- Kinesics p 188
-- Natural Immunity p 188
-- Pain Resistance p 189
-- Spell Resistance p 189
- Magic
-- Analyze Device p 200
-- Antidote p 199
-- Cure Disease p 200
-- Confusion/Chaos p 201
- Cyberware
-- Olfactory Booster PERCEPTION p 331
-- Taste Booster PERCEPTION p 331
-- Smartlink TARGETING
- Bioware
-- Digestive Expansion RESIST TOXIN p 338
-- Pathogenic Defense RESIST TOXIN p 339
-- Symbiotes HEALING TEST p 339
-- Toxin Extractor RESIST TOXIN p 339
-- Tracheal Filter RESIST TOXIN p 339
-- Mnemonic Enhancer KNOWLEDGE + LANGUAGE + INSTRUCTION p 340


Most are pretty clear whether they are attribute, skill, or pool modifiers.
Rotbart van Dainig
Declaring the dice bonus from Mnemonic Enhancer to Language and Knowledge Skills not capped gets the System back to absurd like it was.
(In fact, the wording is similar to Enhanced Articulation.)

PS: Synaptic Booster isn't skill-related.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (calypso)
QUOTE (Azralon @ Oct 6 2005, 03:59 PM)
.... Like it'd be cool if they had clearly labeled things as either:

1) Skill modifier
2) Attribute modifier
3) Pool modifier

Then when they declared #1 and #2 capped at 150% of the base ratings, we'd know exactly where the line was drawn.

Maybe they'll do that in SR5 rotfl.gif

You're joking, right? By SR5 we'll have 12 normal attributes, 8 "special" attributes, all in the name of simplification. We'll be adding Attribute+Skill+Inspiration for all tests to reduce the number of dice rolled (even though the number of dice will typically increase). We'll have people that can morph their bodies into machines at will because the cyberware in their bodies went insane during the Third Crash of 2075, even though most of them don't have any cyberware at all and indeed lose their body-morphing powers when they actually *do* get cyberware. Adepts and Mages will be rolled together into one archetype because it's too confusing having two sets of people who can manipulate magic is too confusing; we'll call the new archetype "Witch" because it's something everyone can instantly identify with. And the wise, pacifist, knowledge-gathering counselor Snake totem will add dice to Binding tests, because compelling spirits to do things against their will is such a big part of being wise and pacifist.

And someone will bitch at me for saying this because they won't figure out I'm trying to be funny. smile.gif
Azralon
And in SR6 there will be one stat: "Coolness."

Player 1: I kick down the door!
GM: Roll Coolness.
Player 2: I shoot at Player 1!
GM: Roll Coolness. Player 1, roll Coolness to defend.

.... Kinda like how World War 4 will be fought with sticks and rocks.
calypso
QUOTE (Azralon)
And in SR6 there will be one stat: "Coolness."

Player 1: I kick down the door!
GM: Roll Coolness.
Player 2: I shoot at Player 1!
GM: Roll Coolness. Player 1, roll Coolness to defend.

.... Kinda like how World War 4 will be fought with sticks and rocks.

So basically it's gonna be like Exalted? Sweet, I'll buy it grinbig.gif

Calypso
SL James
QUOTE (Azralon)
And in SR6 there will be one stat: "Coolness."

Player 1: I kick down the door!
GM: Roll Coolness.
Player 2: I shoot at Player 1!
GM: Roll Coolness. Player 1, roll Coolness to defend.

.... Kinda like how World War 4 will be fought with sticks and rocks.

We always joked SR5 would have one stat called "Shadowrun". Same premise, though.
Prosper
Read the description for specializations on p109. It specifically describes that you need a minimum of 1 in a skill to be specialized, and gives an example of Pistols 3 with a specialization. The specialization adds to the test, but not to the skill.

I interpret this to mean that only items which actually modify a skill or attribute (for example, cerebral booster to Logic) are capped.

I also declare this to be a very stupid rule.
Gothic Rose
I agree it's stupid. I think it's kind of unnecessary - I mean, yes, you can get ridiculous dice pools, but you already can, and to do so generally costs a lot of a character's resources. (F'rex, my Gun Fu Adept can toss, I think it's 18 dice to shooting things with a revolver, but that costs a total of about 117 BP to do that [admittedly, some of the things contained in that cost do other things (namely, race and agility) but still, very expensive.])
snowRaven
QUOTE (Prosper)
Read the description for specializations on p109. It specifically describes that you need a minimum of 1 in a skill to be specialized, and gives an example of Pistols 3 with a specialization. The specialization adds to the test, but not to the skill.

I interpret this to mean that only items which actually modify a skill or attribute (for example, cerebral booster to Logic) are capped.

I also declare this to be a very stupid rule.

Really? That's interesting considering the fact that they specifically name Specializations as an example of dice that count towards the modified skill rating cap...

(then again, contradictions in the SR rules have been standard since 1989, why stop now...)
calypso
QUOTE (snowRaven @ Oct 8 2005, 10:23 AM)
Really? That's interesting considering the fact that they specifically name Specializations as an example of dice that count towards the modified skill rating cap...

Where? The things I see listed are: Spells, Abilities, and Implants.

And, if you're referring to the Spellcasting 4 (+2) example, that's not a specialization. Specializations are Spellcasting (Specialty) 4 (+2). The difference being, in the former, the +2 is ALWAYS added.

Calypso
Rotbart van Dainig
'abilities' is no TT, and thus covers nearly anything from specialisations, qualities or adept/critter powers or the like...
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