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calypso
QUOTE (TheNarrator)
While they don't seem to have bothered to include a "disguise kit" among the kinds of gear, something like wigs and makeup is simple enough, available enough (every theater troupe and Halloween Costume Shop in the UCAS would have them) and cheap enough that I think you could convince your GM to let you have them without bothering with rules for them... sort of like how ordinary clothing is covered by lifestyle.

If worst comes to worst, call it a "tool kit" with the tools appropriate for using the Disguise skill and pay nuyen.gif 500 just like you would for a box of wrenches to use with a Mechanic skill.

Yeah, that's the easiest (and probably best) solution.
Gothic Rose
QUOTE (TheNarrator)
While they don't seem to have bothered to include a "disguise kit" among the kinds of gear, something like wigs and makeup is simple enough, available enough (every theater troupe and Halloween Costume Shop in the UCAS would have them) and cheap enough that I think you could convince your GM to let you have them without bothering with rules for them... sort of like how ordinary clothing is covered by lifestyle.

If worst comes to worst, call it a "tool kit" with the tools appropriate for using the Disguise skill and pay nuyen.gif 500 just like you would for a box of wrenches to use with a Mechanic skill.

Sounds like a good idea. I'll talk to my GM first, though - because if I can avoid shelling out another 500 nuyen on something, that's a good thing nyahnyah.gif
Taki
For a ruthenium mask you don't really need to program by yourself ...
1 just get some pictures of different painting / small carving on masks (the same general shape than yours)
2 have a contact capable in editing picture who adapts a bit the pictures

You will then be able to have plenty of faces no your mask ...

With a few scanner you could even play the invisible-head man ! waouhhhhh !!
Gothic Rose
Problem is, there aren't any rules for Ruthenium - it should cost more, but it's not listed in the book.
Ophis
The only ruthenium in the book is the stealth suit. Buy one of those and just wear the helmet
Azralon
And ride around on a horse carrying a jack o' lantern.
Azralon
Or a motorcycle with a pumpkin-housed Molotov cocktail.

"Aiee! It's the Headless Shadowrunner of Sleepy Seattle!"
Ophis
I am so using that in my next campaign. rotfl.gif
Taki
QUOTE (Azralon @ Oct 7 2005, 09:36 AM)
Or a motorcycle with a pumpkin-housed Molotov cocktail.

"Aiee! It's the Headless Shadowrunner of Sleepy Seattle!"

eek.gif ... love.gif !
blakkie
Shouldn't that be "Sleepless Seattle"? smile.gif
Siege
I dunno, but it would be an interesting spin on "Sleepless in Seattle."

-Siege
Gothic Rose
Out of curiosity, is it worthwhile to up the system rating of a commlink if you don't really plan on running any programs, besides, perhaps, Edit? I'm not entirely clear on all of the computer/commlink things, I find it confusing. frown.gif
snowRaven
QUOTE (blakkie)
Shouldn't that be "Sleepless Seattle"? smile.gif

LoL blakkie - exactly what I thought when I read it...
Gothic Rose
As I work on a revised character entry, I come up with a question. Do guns need to be skinlinked? Meaning, can a hacker utilize hacking to hack into your gun? Or just your smartlink?
blakkie
If you don't skinlink the weapon then even if the commlink and the Smartlink are skinlinked the PAN will have to run wireless (read: a vulnerable and beacon) all the time to have the Smart Link working with the weapon.

Yes, if someone cracked your commlink they could from there in theory issue commands to any device on your PAN. Including i suppose pulling your trigger or dropping the clip on your weapon.

P.S. Or rebooting the Smartgun system on the weapon i suppose, not sure if devices like that have a real reboot since they don't have a System or Response rating? If it was a built in Smartgun system and it was rebooted the GM may rule that it couldn't be fired till the reboot was completed. But that's all left the rules reservation....
Jaid
cyberware has standard commlink-type ratings, iirc. at the very least, cyberware has system, firewall, and response, and i believe even signal actually. more specifically, i think the default is 3 for basic cyberware, and goes up for better cyberware.

however, that may be entirely wrong of course =P
blakkie
Signal is definately 0, range of 3m. I didn't think that your 'ware counted as a node (like your commlink does) but instead were just devices that can be added to a PAN, but i could be wrong there.
Gothic Rose
So, for skinlink, if I want my Commlink to be able to hook up to it, it (commlink) has to be skinlinked too, right? Can Skinlinked commlinks transfer data to other commlinks?
NightRain
A skin linked commlink is still wireless as well, as in fact are all skinlinked devices. They can communicate over skin, wirelessly, both or neither at your preference
calypso
Which means that a hacker can still hack your commlink, as well as anything subscribed to it.

Calypso
Gothic Rose
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but Skinlink then functions like this, right?

ON: Only Transfers data with other skinlink things. Hackers can only hack if they touch you (Handshake of Doom!)
OFF: Transfers data as normal wireless connectivity. Hackers can hack as normal.


Is that right?
blakkie
QUOTE (calypso @ Oct 10 2005, 09:16 PM)
Which means that a hacker can still hack your commlink, as well as anything subscribed to it.

Not if your commlink is set to not transmit/receive on wireless.

The rules aren't clear about whether a standard Skinlinked enabled device has that as a selectable mode. However at the least it should be no more than a Hardware + Logic Extended Test away to add that mode of operation in.
calypso
If your commlink is skinlinked, hackers will still be able to hack that and get access to everything else you have skinlinked. So, don't skinlink your commlink.

EDIT: Yeah, if your skinlink is not broadcasting/receiving you're okay. But then what good is it? It's an mp3 player then.

Calypso
blakkie
QUOTE
EDIT: Yeah, if your skinlink is not broadcasting/receiving you're okay. But then what good is it? It's an mp3 player then.


Not if all the devices you are concerned about at that moment skinlinked.
calypso
QUOTE (blakkie)
How? Creating the required extended contact with your skin is a rather dodgy proposition.

Because once they've hacked your commlink, they have access to everything else that's skinlinked. If you commlink can access the skinlink, and the hacker can access your commlink, then they can access your skinlink.
blakkie
QUOTE (calypso @ Oct 10 2005, 09:33 PM)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Oct 10 2005, 10:31 PM)
How? Creating the required extended contact with your skin is a rather dodgy proposition.

Because once they've hacked your commlink, they have access to everything else that's skinlinked. If you commlink can access the skinlink, and the hacker can access your commlink, then they can access your skinlink.

However unless SL is in cybereyes it becomes decidedly dumb if you aren't hooked up to it via DJ/trode, the easiest way of which is to go through the commlink/sim module. Without that you don't have the control of it.

In fact would appear that Smartlink NEEDS your commlink as all the devices must be part of a PAN, which the commlink acts as a hub.

A totally skinlink PAN can function with no wireless what-so-ever. Thus you have access to your various 'softs, SL, and various other goodies.
NightRain
QUOTE
Because once they've hacked your commlink, they have access to everything else that's skinlinked. If you commlink can access the skinlink, and the hacker can access your commlink, then they can access your skinlink.


Which does bring to mind the possiblity of layered commlinks. A wireless commlink skinlinked to a skinlink only commlink, the later of which runs all of your equipment, the former which access anything external to your PAN.

That way, to get to your smartlink and the like, they would need to hack through two commlinks
Jaid
why link them? i am unaware of any penalties for having two commlinks active, and if one of them is only ever skinlinked, who's gonna see it? just have one for your skinlinked stuff, and one to access the outside world, totally separate, not linked in any way, shape, or form. that way they are faced with having to be in contact with you to hack your important stuff... at which point, you can apply your externally mounted Intrusion Countermeasures, like a fist, for example.
calypso
QUOTE (Jaid)
why link them? i am unaware of any penalties for having two commlinks active, and if one of them is only ever skinlinked, who's gonna see it? just have one for your skinlinked stuff, and one to access the outside world, totally separate, not linked in any way, shape, or form. that way they are faced with having to be in contact with you to hack your important stuff... at which point, you can apply your externally mounted Intrusion Countermeasures, like a fist, for example.

Yep, I agree this is the way to go.
blakkie
Keeping them totally isolated would be difficult as for the wireless one to be meaningful he'll have to be hooked into your head like the skinlink one. Things get a bit murky at that point. You might need separate DJs, which would suck. Not sure if they'd be able to make the jump even then. At the least you would have to have at least one DJ, pretty sure most GMs wouldn't allow dual separate trodes. cyber.gif Getting cut sucks. nyahnyah.gif

EDIT: Also AR would kinda suck, unless the GM allowed you to stack a wireless Image Link device on top of whatever skinlink device you were using for AR/SL.

Databomb is a beautiful thing. With an good Agent doing Analyze sweeps in the outer commlink, a beefy Firewall(6), and a Databomb(5) set to blow the commlink-commlink connection on unauthorized access (it is fairly easy to create another connection once you get rid of the attacker) that is pretty damn good protection. Basically bulletproof, just not missleproof. wink.gif
NightRain
QUOTE
why link them? i am unaware of any penalties for having two commlinks active, and if one of them is only ever skinlinked, who's gonna see it? just have one for your skinlinked stuff, and one to access the outside world, totally separate, not linked in any way, shape, or form.


Link them because otherwise things get messy, you need two datajacks or two trode rigs (is that even possible) if you want a simlink interface with both, and if you don't interface with both, you either miss out on AR cues that come wirelessly, or you miss out on the advantages your skinlinked devices are showing you.

Even if you get past that problem, then they still have to share devices. Now, I'm not sure if you can have one device subscribed to multiple devices, but if you can't, it means that only one commlink is able to send data to say your vision linked glasses. And even if you can subscribe one device to two commlinks, that device then becomes an access point to both commlinks, effectively linking them anyway.

Much better to link the two commlinks, with all of your devices hung off the skinlinked second commlink, that way you can turn off the first wireless commlink if needed. Should a hacker trigger an alarm trying to get in to your wireless commlink, just shut it off. You'll stop him before he ever gets to your 2nd commlink with all the devices
blakkie
BTW if you were a boffo Hardware geek you might try to gimp that POS Meta Link commlink (with upgraded Response of course) that you are using for your inner commlink. If you manage to reduce the Signal to 0 your are pretty damn close to a Skinlink. The attacker has a bit easier job in that they merely have to be within a couple of meters instead of actually touching you, but if you are desparately looking for somewhere to save a few hundred nuyen.gif on skinlink upgrades. *shrug*
NightRain
I wouldn't do that, it would make you extremely vulnerable to jamming
blakkie
QUOTE (NightRain @ Oct 10 2005, 10:09 PM)
I wouldn't do that, it would make you extremely vulnerable to jamming

True, you'd have to sink several grand into an ECCM program instead of just a grand or so.
Gothic Rose
All right, here's an updated version. Character created to 450 Build Points. Things have gotten moved around a bit. Either of his commlinks can act as the wireless or skin-hub.

Please, tell me what you all think!

"Armitage"

Race: Elf 30 BP

Attributes: 280 BP
[ Spoiler ]


Skills: 130 BP
[ Spoiler ]


Qualities: +10
[ Spoiler ]


Adept Powers
[ Spoiler ]


Contacts: 9BP
[ Spoiler ]


Resources: 55,000 Nuyen; 11BP
[ Spoiler ]


Starting Cash
[ Spoiler ]

Siege
The single, extra die of Handgun could be better spent elsewhere.

An extra level of Kinesics? Extra perception dice? Two IA: dice for Infiltration or an Athletics skill?

Strictly my opinion.

-Siege
Gothic Rose
QUOTE (Siege)
The single, extra die of Handgun could be better spent elsewhere.

An extra level of Kinesics? Extra perception dice? Two IA: dice for Infiltration or an Athletics skill?

Strictly my opinion.

-Siege

What single extra pistol die? You mean level 2 Improved Attribute: Pistols?

If so, I'm not sure. My GM is contemplating changing or getting rid of the 1.5 cap. I can't say for sure, but he doesn't like it, so... yeah.
NightRain
I think he means "Apptitude Pistols"
Gothic Rose
QUOTE (NightRain)
I think he means "Apptitude Pistols"

Getting rid of Aptitude: Pistols would make my 6 in the Pistols skill cost double, thus only getting me 2 more BPs, and no more growth in the skill in game. Tat would be kind of sucky.
Rotbart van Dainig
Only getting the 7 in Chargen costs double (and still is a good payoff) - the 6 always costs normal.
Gothic Rose
Ohh, that's right... I'd forgotten about that.

Still, although freeing up 10 BP would be nice, Aptitude in pistols is something I dearly want, because I do want to be able to get to 7 in game. Although I suppose it would be drastically cheaper to start with Pistols 7 and Perception 0.
Fortune
Aren't Protective Covers only compatable with Cybereyes?
Gothic Rose
QUOTE (Fortune)
Aren't Protective Covers only compatable with Cybereyes?

It says explicitly in the text that they are usable without cybereyes. There are two entries for them - one in cosmetics cyberware, one in eyeware - both on the same page. Same stats, as well.
Fortune
No problem. I don't have my book with me at the moment, and sisn't remember the other entry.
Siege
QUOTE (NightRain)
I think he means "Apptitude Pistols"

Actually, I meant his single level of IA: Handgun.

A single extra die of Handgun for a .5 cost is a pretty small return for the other perks you could pick up, IMHO.

Example: the meaningful difference between Handgun 5 and Handgun 6 dice versus Infiltration 2 and Infiltration 4.

-Siege
Gothic Rose
Ah. Right. I see, I see, that's the problem. A typo. If you add up those costs, you get 4.5 magic.

BAD TYPO.

He's got IA: Pistols level 2

EDIT: Fixededed.
Fortune
Change both! biggrin.gif

If you are not going to use the Aptitude at chargen, you might as well not take it. It takes up a valuable slot in the 35-BP limit, which does not apply after the game starts. It's cheap enough that you can always pick it up later on, in game. And Siege is right about Improved Pistols.

Take it at 2 or 3, or leave it altogether and pick it up later in-game. Level 1 is just a pointless waste of Power Points, which could be put to much better use, rare as they are.
Gothic Rose
QUOTE (Fortune)
Change both! biggrin.gif

If you are not going to use the Aptitude at chargen, you might as well not take it. It takes up a valuable slot in the 35-BP limit, which does not apply after the game starts. It's cheap enough that you can always pick it up later on, in game. And Siege is right about Improved Pistols.

Take it at 2 or 3, or leave it altogether and pick it up later in-game. Level 1 is just a pointless waste of Power Points, which could be put to much better use, rare as they are.

It's IA Pistols 2, not 1.

I -could- drop my 2 points of Perception at chargen, and pick up Pistols 7. I kind of dislike that, because then my character is nearly the best in the world at shooting a revolver. There's nowhere to go. BUT, on the other hand, in terms of saving karma, I would save a cubic buttload (cool.gif doing it that way. Because perception 2 would cost 6 karma to raise from 0 to 2.

Or, I could drop aptitude pistols, and go for another skill group, or something. IN which case, I'd probably drop Athletics down to 1, and up Stealth by 2, making it 4. Again, more cost effective Karmically speaking.
Fortune
QUOTE (Gothic Rose)
It's IA Pistols 2, not 1.

Yeah yeah. Too many windows open, and I didn't refresh. When will I learn? nyahnyah.gif biggrin.gif

It's up to you. Karma/BP cost-wise, it's much cheaper to pick up both Aptitude and the linked Skill at 7 during chargen, if the is your ultimate intent for the character.
Gothic Rose
Mm. This is indeed a difficult proposition. 18 dice to kill people vs. 10 (apprx) dice to detect stuff. OR, 19 dice to kill people vs. apprx 8 dice to detect stuff.

Hrm. Hrm Hrm Hrm.
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