Dumpshock Forums > Gun Fu Adept

Gothic Rose

Oct 6 2005, 01:05 AM

Right then. So, I'll be in a SR4 game in a bit, and I made my character. I'm going to be playing an Englishman Elf who is to serve the group on two fronts - both as Combat Badass, and as Face. Interestingly, on that second note, he always wears a custom made featureless mask, and large clothing - he's pretending to be human. (And yes, I know he could have Human Looking - but I don't want it.)

This is the first SR4 character I've ever made, and I would appreciate it if people would maybe give me some advice on what I've done right or wrong.

A bit of background: He's the son of one of the members of the House of Lords, in England. He always adored the old Japanese Anime videos (Such as TriGun, Cowboy Bebop, etc) and his adept powers naturally manifested into an emulation of those old psuedo-western anime. He calls it his own martial art, the "Art of Deadly Mouse." (Point [Gun], Click [Trigger])

Due to his father's reputation, he's unwilling to show his face, so he wears a custom full-face mask/helm that's been tricked out to allow all sorts of nifty things.

This character is built with 450BP.

Race: Elf (30BP)

Attributes (280BP)

[ Spoiler ]

Skills (130BP)

[ Spoiler ]

Qualities: +10BP

[ Spoiler ]

Contacts: 10BP

[ Spoiler ]

Adept Powers

[ Spoiler ]

Starting NuYen: 50,000 (10BP)

[ Spoiler ]

Lebo77

Oct 6 2005, 02:16 AM

Wow... A cheesy elven pistols adept! Never seen anyting like THAT before!

Gothic Rose

Oct 6 2005, 02:40 AM

QUOTE (Lebo77)

Wow... A cheesy elven pistols adept! Never seen anyting like THAT before!

I'm sorry. I didn't know that the character I play in a game has to meet your standards. I've never played a pistol adept - heck, I've only ever played 1 adept in SR3, and he was around for all of a 2 session game. So I'm sorry if the character that I desire to play in a game that will never effect you doesn't meet your standards of unique-characterness. [/sarcasm] Of course, there's more to the character than meets the eye, but I can't say anything else because there are members of my group who frequent this forum.

So, if you don't have something constructive to say to help someone who's never made a SR4 character before, then by all means, please, shut up. Thanks.

Wireknight

Oct 6 2005, 03:18 AM

As I understand it, the combination of +2 dice for improved ability and +2 dice for specialization exceed the "modified skill limit" (skill rating * 1.5, 6*1.5=9, for your case). Pistols 6, plus 2 dice from specialization, plus 2 dice from improved ability, makes for 10 dice. As the maximum you can modify your Pistols skill to is 9, this means that you're losing out on one of the bonus dice you've entitled yourself to, when you're shooting a revolver. You're at 8 skill-related dice when shooting a non-revolver pistol, which is kosher.

There are two ways to address this. If you wanna go full-bore with revolvers, then ditch the point of improved ability and shift it over to combat sense. If you'd rather keep your overall aptitude at the cost of your semi-nerfed revolver specialization, just drop the specialization and spend the points elsewhere.

Wasabi

Oct 6 2005, 03:28 AM

I like it, its classy. One thing though, when you get the Adept ability you get a magic rating of 1 for free, right? That should mean that Magic 5, Edge 3 costs 40+20=60, right?

Add that to 200pts in Physical+Mental attributes and it should be 260, not 280.

Second, why Stealth GROUP to 2 on such a dedicated combat character? With your Aptitude in Pistols you could drop the Stealth group (-20pts) to add just Infiltration 3 (12pts), then use the remaining 8 to get the 7th point in Pistols.

Third, are Licenses done per item or per type? I'be heard arguments for both ways.

Fourth, its hard to judge how well done a 450bp character is when the standard most of us are used to is 400bp+negative qualities.

Fifth, You've got hidden arm slides, concealed holsters, and quick draw holsters. Bear in mind they can't be combined so you have 6 ways of carrying 4 pistols.

Sixth, you've got all that nifty gear and licenses and fake sins but no firewall for your commlink, for shame! For shame!

I like the setup, though, overall... nice job for a very experienced (450bp) character!

Siege

Oct 6 2005, 03:28 AM

Your adept powers are scattered all over the page.

I'd go for a more focused approach:

Increased Reflexes 2 (3)
+4 dice Handgun (2)

Vision Mag (.25)
Low-light (.25)
Vision Enhancement (.25)
Flare comp (.25)

I've never been a big fan of combat sense, even if the new version of the power allows adepts to "defend against ranged and melee attacks." Which would be an amusing argument for not buying perception powers, except it helps to be able to shoot your target in a variety of situations.

You could also check into Improved Ability Scores - Improved Athletics allows you to make gymnastic dodges, or you might buy Improved Dodge which would be, say it with me, .25 per die.

So, you might lose two dice from "Improged Handgun" and gain +4 dice to Dodge or 2 dice of Combat Sense or more sense enhancements.

Oh, cheese - specialize in "Ranged attacks" for Dodge - considering how often you'll be shot at versus melee attacks, it's well worth the 2 points.

-Siege

Edit: Sorry, I forgot you used Magic 5. Shave a couple points off "IA: Handgun", considering the starter cap.

Wasabi

Oct 6 2005, 03:31 AM

Oh, and one other thing... why Attribute Boost: Body when Attribute Boost: Reaction will add more defense through the whole clean miss thing. Plus, Reaction has other uses like boosting initiative.

With an average roll with Boost 1 and Magic 5 you'll get two successes which combined with Reaction Enhancement 2 will give you your capped Reaction of 9. Heck, at that rating might be worth getting a trode net and rigged motorcycle, chummer!

Siege

Oct 6 2005, 03:37 AM

Oh, keep in mind weapons and ammo do take up space, so don't go nuts with the guns.

Concealed holsters if you're going subtle - otherwise ditch them.

Revolvers? Speedloaders are your friends.

Two primaries with ammo, one backup would be my recommendation.

-Siege

Gothic Rose

Oct 6 2005, 03:58 AM

Wireknight:

QUOTE

Improved Ability
Cost: .5 per level (Combat skills), .25 per level (Physical, Social,
Technical skills)
This power gives you additional dice for use with a specific
Active skill. Dice purchased for the Active skill carry
over equally to any specializations of the skill you know. You
cannot have more additional dice than your base skill rating.
Improved Ability does not actually improve a skill’s rating,
it only provides additional dice for tests involving the skill.
Improved Ability must be purchased for a specific skill, not
a skill group.
This power costs .5 per level for all Combat skills and only
.25 per level for Physical, Social, and Technical skills.

The bolded text leads me to believe that Improved Ability does not function under the same rules. Assuming it doesn't, that leaves me with +2 Specialization, +2 Smart Link (See gear) which equals +3 with the cap - although I believe calypso is arguing that Specializations shouldn't count, since they are conditional.

Wasabi: Firstly, Magic 5, Edge 3 is indeed 60. However, with 450 BP, you can spend 1/2 (225) on stats. So, 220 spent on Phys/Mental, plus another 60 on Special = 280.

Stealth Group is because I want a total of 3 stealth skills: Disguise (My character is pretending to be another metatype), Palming (For ninja awesomeness) and Infiltration (Duh

) so the Group works best.

GM Says: Licenses by Type. Even if not, then both of those would be for Revolvers.

Not 4 guns. 7 guns. Not all are necessarily carried at once - that's also why there's so much ammo. Maybe I'm just used to having to buy all my ammo at CharGen (cuz of Street Index in SR3) but I just tend to do buy enough for all my guns from the get-go and supplement as I go along.

Firewalls - see, this is what I needed!

I'll be adding those, thanks!

I took Attribute Boost: Body because it can help with soaking the Drain from doing the other, although I suppose Reaction would probably be better.

Siege: Really? Hrm. See, Combat Sense seems nifty, since it's +1 reaction from surprise and when dodging, so it's effectively another +1 die to dodge, only, it doesn't count against the skill cap. Although it is kinda expensive, I suppose. The Attribute boosts help in general, and Att Boost: Agility helps with pistol-fu. Not quite as reliable as extra dice in handguns, but more useful in other areas, as well. And if you check out the gear he has, I have vision enhancers in goggles and contacts (GM specifically said that they can stack due to wireless connectivity) so why bother getting them as adept powers?

The concealed holsters are paired with the two ares Predator IV's which also have silencers - those would be my "Ninja Silent" guns, since Ruger's cannot have a silencer on them. The guns probably won't all always be on him. I just like to make sure I have what I need at CharGen. And I have 12 speed loaders

Although they give the character no bonus, since it takes a Complex Action to load a SPeed Loader, and a Complex Action to load single bullets equal to Agility - and since a Ruger is a 6 shot, and his agility is 6...they're kinda pointless, save from the perspective of keeping bullets organized. (I'm planning on having the character have a trick where he keeps a few bullets of various types in a pocket, then randomly picks and loads them, and shoots things - just because.)

Wireknight

Oct 6 2005, 04:03 AM

I'm aware of that text. Text that preceeds and appears to override it was the origin of my first post. I think it's quoted and page-referenced in full in one of the recent threads in this forum. Until the errata comes out in one direction or another, it may be safer to assume the skill limit applies, than to have to change/throw away your character to compensate if you assume it doesn't and the errata says it does.

Siege

Oct 6 2005, 04:24 AM

Yes, but what happens when your gun specialist doesn't have his goggles?

The strength of the adept is subtle and skillful - without the goggles, your adept becomes less effective.

Just my two bits.

-Siege

Edit: The temporary boost is limited, you have to time it and then you have to eat drain afterwards.

Is your concept more of a "Gentleman GunPerson?" You might consider redistributing the 40 points into three 3 skills (12) each, costing 36 points. This leaves you 4 points to buy specializations with.

The reason for the split? Intimidation (Mental) 3 (+2) for that aura of quiet menace.

Gothic Rose

Oct 6 2005, 08:25 AM

Wireknight: If the errata rules against me, then so be it.

It's not a huge deal regardless, after all. Just a little bit of shuffling.

Siege: True, about the reliance upon self. But I'm not terribly worried about losing the gear he has, and if he does, then all I have to do is raise Magic to 6. Which, while kind of expensive, isn't horridly expensive.

I know you have to eat Drain for Attribute Boost, but it's still ridiculously good, because rolling 6 dice (Magic 5, Att. Boost 1) you will, on average, get +2 to a statistic. For .25 Power Point. That's a good deal. And my GM is saying that he believes it's a free action to invoke the power, so...yeah.

In a way, yes, the concept is a Gentleman GunPerson, but I happen to -really- like the Influence Skill Group's skills. Negotiation, Etiquette, Con, Leadership...all good skills. And I need Con. I need Etiquette. I want Negotiation and Leadership... And I also would like Intimidation, but that's not necessary - it's rather low on the list of skills I -really- want. Can't have everything, after all.

NightmareX

Oct 6 2005, 09:20 AM

QUOTE (Gothic Rose)

Right then. So, I'll be in a SR4 game in a bit, and I made my character. I'm going to be playing an Englishman Elf who is to serve the group on two fronts - both as Combat Badass, and as Face. Interestingly, on that second note, he always wears a custom made featureless mask, and large clothing - he's pretending to be human. (And yes, I know he could have Human Looking - but I don't want it.)

Nice concept! Just gave it a quick once over, everything seemed pretty solid. Only a couple things I'd mention.

* If I read you intention right, you plan to put the Rugers in the arm slides? This could get awkward to say the least. There is no rules backing for it, but from the look of it a Super Warhawk has about a 9 inch barrel (compare to the real life Ruger Super Redhawk here). Just something to think about. Of course, I could be misreading your intentions totally (in which case ignore me).

* Grenades and extra ammo are a great way to get rid of that extra money (since you loose it before play starts be sure to spend every last nuyen). Microdrones are also great (you can get one for 1000

), especially since you don't need any special skills or gear beyond your commlink to control them in a basic fashion nowadays.

Ophis

Oct 6 2005, 09:30 AM

Nice concept, I like elves in masks, not sure why I just do.

The only thing that bothers me is the lack of faceness, sure his social skills are cool, but he he has one all be very well connected contact. I feel a face should have a few more. maybe find a saving of 10 points somewhere and get some business aquaitences (two 2/1, and one 3/1 or 2/2 contacts).

But thats just a small personal niggle. Otherwise cool.

Gothic Rose

Oct 6 2005, 09:46 AM

NightmareX: Thanks. Heh, you're reading my intentions perfectly. Two Rugers in arm slides, two at the quick draw holsters (located at the hip, wild west style) I know that Rugers are big - but the Hidden Arm Slide specifically says it can accomodate up to Heavy Pistol size weapons, so... *shrug*

I'm not too concerned about the little bit of extra NuYen I have - I'm contemplating skin-linking some things, that'll take some cash, I believe. Though the microdrone idea is something I'll have to look in to.

Ophis: Thanks. Normally, yes, I'd agree with you - more contacts = good. But there's a very specific reason why he only has one contact, at such high rating. Suffice to say that he's brand spanking new to the Seattle region; fresh off of the sub-orbital from England, almost. So he hasn't had the chance to meet many people as of yet. Pretty much, it's a story reason - otherwise, I'd break the 5/5 contact up into a few smaller ones.

Wasabi

Oct 6 2005, 10:05 AM

1. A drone of any variety without at least a Firewall and Clearsight Autosoft is pointless. Its like telling an opposing Hacker 'Spy on me!'.

2. Consider carrying a few speed loaders of Gel Rounds. The +2 AP doesn't really matter since thats a random +2 chance of damage reduction offset by an automatic +2 to damage. With willpower tending to be lower on Trolls and things, it makes for an effecitve way to do damage as well as the ONLY way to subdue via gunplay.

3. If its a free action to use your Attribute Boost, I'd drop 1 die of Combat sense and pick up Attribute Boost in Str and Rea. The +2-ish reaction boost will more than make up for the -1 from loss of combat sense, albeit only when you know its coming and not for surprise.... typically.

4. Everybody worth fearing is gonna have Visiion Enhancers of their own so the chance of a disguise working is directly proportional to whether you have the corresponding Computer skill to make the most of Nanodisguises. Otherwise on average rolls you lose. Buy Human Looking if you wanna appear Human. It always works and is cheaper than that disguise skill, albeit the positive quality applies to your 35pt limit on positive qualities.

5. Consider a pair of Holdout pistols in concealed holsters. With Stick-N-Shock ammo they do decent damage, not great, but decent. Since they are so hard to detect two of them may save your backside later if you are going into a high security meet where they can slip through.

6. I personally like the Irony of someone standing out due to their mask having the Blandness quality, but hey, thats more me than need.

7. When using two guns at once you can't apply a smartlink so its not critical you have one for two-pistol gunplay.

NightmareX

Oct 6 2005, 10:05 AM

QUOTE (Gothic Rose @ Oct 6 2005, 04:46 AM)

NightmareX: Thanks. Heh, you're reading my intentions perfectly. Two Rugers in arm slides, two at the quick draw holsters (located at the hip, wild west style) I know that Rugers are big - but the Hidden Arm Slide specifically says it can accomodate up to Heavy Pistol size weapons, so... *shrug*

I'm not too concerned about the little bit of extra NuYen I have - I'm contemplating skin-linking some things, that'll take some cash, I believe. Though the microdrone idea is something I'll have to look in to.

the Rugers - As long as your GM's cool with it, I guess. If this was a character in one of my games I'd have a fit over it (but then again I tend to be a bit more of a stickler for that sort of thing than most).

On another topic, skinlink's only 50

a pop, so if you do it with the seven pistols, the contacts, and one of the commlinks that'll be 450

there (making your smartlink difficult to hack). Don't forget trodes (nanopaste or vanilla) so you can have DNI control of your PAN.

NightmareX

Oct 6 2005, 10:12 AM

QUOTE (Wasabi)

1. A drone of any variety without at least a Firewall and Clearsight Autosoft is pointless. Its like telling an opposing Hacker 'Spy on me!'.

Not necessarily, if you limit it to tactical use and keep in turned off when not in use. You know, send out the spiders ala Minority Report or toss an iball into a room/upstairs/whatever to get a better look around.

Ophis

Oct 6 2005, 10:24 AM

QUOTE (Gothic Rose)

Ophis: Thanks. Normally, yes, I'd agree with you - more contacts = good. But there's a very specific reason why he only has one contact, at such high rating. Suffice to say that he's brand spanking new to the Seattle region; fresh off of the sub-orbital from England, almost. So he hasn't had the chance to meet many people as of yet. Pretty much, it's a story reason - otherwise, I'd break the 5/5 contact up into a few smaller ones.

That works for me. I'd be interested in the characters back story. I am British so may be able to spot any glaring errors.

Jaid

Oct 6 2005, 02:38 PM

you cannot have a fake license with a rating higher than the SIN it is attached to, as i recall. you may want to make some modifications to at least one of your SINs.

calypso

Oct 6 2005, 03:03 PM

My complaints (as you well know

) are with Scorched and Sensitive System.

1) How did he even get scorched? He doesn't have a sim module, much less a hot sim modified one.

2) How much cyberware were you planning on getting? Because otherwise, I want a Severe Allergy to Kryptonite.

Calypso

EDIT: BTW, did Bryon rule that we can use contacts and goggles at the same time? If so, I'm going to take advantage of that

Rotbart van Dainig

Oct 6 2005, 03:07 PM

QUOTE (calypso)

Because otherwise, I want a Severe Allergy to Kryptonite.

Obviously, you never B&E'd R&D facilites.

Wireknight

Oct 6 2005, 04:59 PM

Rose, you should also consider that high natural attributes and low skills can help you achieve the "jack of a whole lot of trades" type effect you're aiming for, with the bonus dice from the attribute contributing at slightly less cost than the bonus skill dice would. For instance, if you're dead set on a lot of Charisma-linked skills and groups, you should probably consider whether you can save a few points with a higher Charisma attribute and a lower skill, for the same desired base dicepool.

Taki

Oct 6 2005, 06:01 PM

Wireknight, don't you forget in Charisma-linked skill, that this elf need a LOT of dice to balance the handicap given by the mask ?
Some people can't be confident / feel free to speak when the eyes of a person are hidden ...
Would you chat with Darth Vador ?

I would say : full mask : -3/4 dice to all social related skills (except may be intimidate), to hide in the crowd is very difficult as well ...

-2 dices to buy your donuts / -9 dices to eat them !

Taki
(otherwise I do like the character)

Gothic Rose

Oct 6 2005, 07:24 PM

Ophis: I'll take you up on that offer

There are a few things I haven't revealed here, because they're secret, and Calypso is a member of my gaming group. So once I have a bit more written, I'll PM ya

Calypso: As you can see, he's got several addictions. About a few years ago, he was heavily into BTLs - complete junkie. Ultimately, he got help, but it wasn't until after he got hit by a bad BTL, which almost killed him Hence Scorched. Just because he doesn't have a datajack doesn't mean he can't utilize simsense and VR - that's what Trodes are for. (Although apparently, I forgot to buy them. THAT'll be rectified.)

As for Sensitive System - Just because you don't have 'ware doesn't mean you may not get 'ware. It also doesn't mean you won't get your hand chopped off and have to get a cyber-hand or something.

And yes, he did rule about contacts and goggles/shades/monacles/etc. (Take a monacle. Because the concept of a shapeshifting hacker who wears a monacle is awesome.)

Wireknight: Heh, yes, I know. I consider a Charisma of 6 to be pretty high, although it can go higher. Thing is, I've already spent 220 BPs out of a possible 225 that can be spent on Physical and Social Attributes. If, by some miracle, the GM decided to give more BPs starting, then yes, Charisma will get bumped to 7, but I don't want to lower anything else the character has currently - as is, I dislike my low Logic and Willpower, but... *shrug* Can't have everything.

Taki: Yeah, I'm kind of expecting some modifiers - at least an equivalent of "Obvious Cyberwear."

calypso

Oct 6 2005, 07:27 PM

QUOTE (Gothic Rose)

Calypso: As you can see, he's got several addictions. About a few years ago, he was heavily into BTLs - complete junkie. Ultimately, he got help, but it wasn't until after he got hit by a bad BTL, which almost killed him Hence Scorched. Just because he doesn't have a datajack doesn't mean he can't utilize simsense and VR - that's what Trodes are for. (Although apparently, I forgot to buy them. THAT'll be rectified.)

As for Sensitive System - Just because you don't have 'ware doesn't mean you may not get 'ware. It also doesn't mean you won't get your hand chopped off and have to get a cyber-hand or something.

Fair enough, I assumed that would be the reason for Scorched.

But like I said, if you take Sensitive System, I'm taking a Serious Allergy to Kryptonite. Because, you know, one day they might discover Kryptonite. And then I'm in trouble!

BTW, don't forget your hot sim modified Sim Module as well

Calypso

Taki

Oct 6 2005, 08:05 PM

QUOTE (Gothic Rose)

Taki: Yeah, I'm kind of expecting some modifiers - at least an equivalent of "Obvious Cyberwear."

a bit more than that I reckon.

I am still surprised nobody jumped on it ... A "face" with a mask !!!

Get some ruthenium on it, it can be funny and beautiful ...

Gothic Rose

Oct 6 2005, 08:06 PM

Calypso: The major point of Sensitive System is that it closes off one aspect of the game - cyberware. Cyberware becomes just a not good thing. And yes, Calypso, I've contemplated, and am still contemplating, the potential of picking up 'ware. For now? Probably not.

Yeah. Hot Sim modified Sim Module... *starts looking for things about that, because he doesn't particularly know those rules*

Taki: Yeah, a Face with a Mask

That's one of the reasons I like it

It's wierd and off beat, but not totally undoable. Ruthenium...hrm.... *ponders*

Mightyflapjack

Oct 6 2005, 08:14 PM

You can just do that trick of taking the negative quality Incompotent for all the "ressonance" skills (Compiling, Decompiling, Registering). = Free 15 Build Points. Though I am sure people will scream "That was eratta! you can't anymore!"

Honestly I find it refreshing that you selected revolvers.

As I was reading your thread I kept thinking of the movie Equillibrium.

Gothic Rose

Oct 6 2005, 08:22 PM

QUOTE (Mightyflapjack)

You can just do that trick of taking the negative quality Incompotent for all the "ressonance" skills (Compiling, Decompiling, Registering). = Free 15 Build Points. Though I am sure people will scream "That was eratta! you can't anymore!"

Honestly I find it refreshing that you selected revolvers.

As I was reading your thread I kept thinking of the movie Equillibrium.

To my knowledge, you cannot do anything with Resonance skills if you don't have Resonance. And I know for sure that my GM would say a resounding: "NO."

Sensitive System has its drawbacks. And honestly, if my GM says no, then I can and will replace it with other things. *shrug* Not a big deal.

On a slightly different note, what are peoples opinions: Should I keep Will to Live, or go for First Impression? WtL is nice for Combat, but FI would lower my Notoriety by 1, and it would help offset any penalties for the mask - plus, I feel kind of bad since all of my qualities deal with combat. I wouldn't mind taking one that helps with another aspect of the character. (I am specifically not taking Human Looking because I don't want the character to look Human. That's what makes masquerading as a human VERY difficult. I know that ultimately, the character's gonna fail in this. It's just a plot thing, you know?)

calypso

Oct 6 2005, 08:27 PM

You might consider High Pain Tolerance or Guts.

Calypso

Lebo77

Oct 6 2005, 09:01 PM

QUOTE (Gothic Rose)

QUOTE (Lebo77 @ Oct 5 2005, 09:16 PM)

Wow... A cheesy elven pistols adept! Never seen anyting like THAT before!

I'm sorry. I didn't know that the character I play in a game has to meet your standards. I've never played a pistol adept - heck, I've only ever played 1 adept in SR3, and he was around for all of a 2 session game. So I'm sorry if the character that I desire to play in a game that will never effect you doesn't meet your standards of unique-characterness. [/sarcasm] Of course, there's more to the character than meets the eye, but I can't say anything else because there are members of my group who frequent this forum.

So, if you don't have something constructive to say to help someone who's never made a SR4 character before, then by all means, please, shut up. Thanks.

Errrr... you did ask for opinions. My reaction was "Un-original combat twink".

Taki

Oct 6 2005, 09:06 PM

QUOTE (Gothic Rose)

FI would lower my Notoriety by 1, and it would help offset any penalties for the mask

With the mask your character will surely face quick reject reactions from other people, I think the FI quality could be very valuable (and help the shop tender not to think it's a robbery).

snowRaven

Oct 6 2005, 11:35 PM

QUOTE (Taki @ Oct 6 2005, 10:05 PM)

QUOTE (Gothic Rose @ Oct 6 2005, 02:24 PM)

Taki: Yeah, I'm kind of expecting some modifiers - at least an equivalent of "Obvious Cyberwear."

a bit more than that I reckon.

I am still surprised nobody jumped on it ... A "face" with a mask !!!

Get some ruthenium on it, it can be funny and beautiful ...

Taki I love you! (In a strictly platonic sense, that is)

That was the final touch needed to make this character into a wonderful NPC!

And Gothic Rose (love that name btw) - the character seems quite well-built. Some oopses on the gear, as others mentioned already, and I think putting some senses as adept powers wouldn't be a bad idea.

Gothic Rose

Oct 7 2005, 12:15 AM

Taki: You're right, I think. I'm very much leaning towards First Impression at this point. I just think it would help tremendously.

snowRaven: Heh, thanks. I like my name too

The gear is, truth be told, the thing I'm most concerned about. I'm not entirely sure what items are "Must Haves" in SR4. I could tell you plenty about what you should have in SR3, but a lot of things have changed, and the whole wireless connectivity thing just confuses me (There's a reason I dont want to play a hacker!)

I finally read the specifics on Disguise, and yay! You apparently don't use the Disguise skill! You use COMPUTERS. That's just...silly...

snowRaven

Oct 7 2005, 12:20 AM

QUOTE (Gothic Rose)

Taki: You're right, I think. I'm very much leaning towards First Impression at this point. I just think it would help tremendously.

snowRaven: Heh, thanks. I like my name too

The gear is, truth be told, the thing I'm most concerned about. I'm not entirely sure what items are "Must Haves" in SR4. I could tell you plenty about what you should have in SR3, but a lot of things have changed, and the whole wireless connectivity thing just confuses me (There's a reason I dont want to play a hacker!)

I finally read the specifics on Disguise, and yay! You apparently don't use the Disguise skill! You use COMPUTERS. That's just...silly...

Yeah, First Impression would be very good to have. I would also consider dropping a point of edge in favor of getting another useful skill, to round him out abit...

I know what you mean about the necessary gear in SR4 - I'm baffled atm, and the commlink thing is probably the most necessary as well as the most complex rules in the book, for the setting.

LoL @ Disguise

Gothic Rose

Oct 7 2005, 02:06 AM

Hrm. So, something I just realized. Attribute Boost: Reaction is almost useless to him, because it can only ever net +2 Reaction, due to his Improved Reflexes (level 2) Adept Power, which grants +2 to Reflexes. And, generally, he'd have another +1 to reflexes from Combat Sense, and possibly a Combat Drug of some sort (addicted to stimulants, after all)

Hrm.

Svilazna

Oct 7 2005, 02:13 AM

I like the concept, it has been mentioned but I would look at his equipment a bit more closely.

I would get rid of some guns in favour of speed loaders but thats just me, plus it is easier to conceal with less of them.

Have you considered Kinsetics as an adept power? it would cut down on the combat powers but would offset the disadvantages of the mask.

You could also go the tailored phermones to compensate for the mask they dont cost much essence but again you would be loosing some adept powers.

Gothic Rose

Oct 7 2005, 03:10 AM

I'm in the process of modifying his equipment. I also need to find some points to put a few into the Computers skill, since I need that for disguises. But, please note that: 1) He has 12 speed loaders; 2) Speed Loaders are effectively useless for him, since, with a 6 shot gun, he can load 6 bullets into it as a complex action, vs. loading a speed loader (w/six bullets in it) as a Complex Action.

Kinesics...hrm...no, I hadn't, actually. That's somewhat intriguing, though. I could drop the 2 attribute boosts, -OR- the Combat Sense, and take a level of Kinesics - which, having just read, is very nice, considering the fact that it's a Dice Pool bonus, and therefore, not subject to the caps.

Hrm. Hrm Hrm Hrm.

Squinky

Oct 7 2005, 03:38 AM

Wouldn't Kinesics require facial expression? I'd think the mask could impair that ability...

Jaid

Oct 7 2005, 03:45 AM

debatable.

kinesics is all body language, not just facial expressions and such.

furthermore, part of the power comes from you being able to read their emotions as much as from the indicators you give, and there are far more than simple facial expressions on your end of things.

also, if he's gonna have the ruthenium mask, i would presume he's gonna have it DNI linked, probably via 'trodes. meaning, he can control the pretty colours on his mask as part of his kinesics

and project subliminal messages. heck, that's gotta be worth something

Gothic Rose

Oct 7 2005, 04:19 AM

Actually, I can't find any rules at -all- for Ruthenium. They're only mentioned twice in the pdf - both times in the Clothing/Armor section, but there's no cost/anything. Blahr.

Could someone explain, perhaps, what it means when the book says:

QUOTE

New disguises may be programmed with a rating equal to the hits on a Computer
+ Edit Test (max hits = Disguise skill).

What is Edit? Is that a program?

calypso

Oct 7 2005, 04:25 AM

QUOTE (Gothic Rose)

Actually, I can't find any rules at -all- for Ruthenium. They're only mentioned twice in the pdf - both times in the Clothing/Armor section, but there's no cost/anything. Blahr.

Could someone explain, perhaps, what it means when the book says:

QUOTE

New disguises may be programmed with a rating equal to the hits on a Computer
+ Edit Test (max hits = Disguise skill).

What is Edit? Is that a program?

Yeah. So you make a Computer + Edit test, where Computer is the skill and Edit is the program rating. You can get a max hits equal to your Disguise skill. That's the number for Opposed Tests to see through it/whatever.

Calypso

Gothic Rose

Oct 7 2005, 04:29 AM

I am deeply, deeply saddened that in order to use the Disguise skill, you have to have Computers, an Edit program, and highly specialized equipment. *sigh*

TheNarrator

Oct 7 2005, 04:35 AM

QUOTE (Gothic Rose @ Oct 6 2005, 11:19 PM)

Actually, I can't find any rules at -all- for Ruthenium. They're only mentioned twice in the pdf - both times in the Clothing/Armor section, but there's no cost/anything. Blahr.

Could someone explain, perhaps, what it means when the book says:

QUOTE

New disguises may be programmed with a rating equal to the hits on a Computer
+ Edit Test (max hits = Disguise skill).

What is Edit? Is that a program?

Yeah, that looks like the Skill + Program dice pool used for hacker stuff.

I checked the SR4 .pdf and found that on page 330... it's only for disguises programed into the kit for making latex face masks or with the nanopaste.

QUOTE (SR4)

Latex Face Mask: When the mage has her day off, you
can still disguise yourself with this handy piece of equipment.
The mask includes a disposable lifecast kit that produces
a true-to-life latex face replica. New disguises may be
programmed with a rating equal to the hits on a Computer
+ Edit Test (max hits = Disguise skill). They may also be
copied from a biometric scan (rating = scanner rating). The
rating of the mask adds to the dice pool for Disguise Tests.
The mask and kit can only be used once.

Now, if you use the Disguise skill with ordinary, old-fashioned disguise stuff (wigs, makeup, false mustaches, etc), or by dressing up in a stolen uniform then you use the Disguise skill like it says on page 118.

Gothic Rose

Oct 7 2005, 04:42 AM

And yet, I can't find any rules for any other types of disguise kit -type things. Just Nanopaste and latex masks. No wigs/makeup/etc.

calypso

Oct 7 2005, 04:46 AM

QUOTE (Gothic Rose)

And yet, I can't find any rules for any other types of disguise kit -type things. Just Nanopaste and latex masks. No wigs/makeup/etc.

? Page 118. You don't need specific entries for disguise stuff.... it involves wigs, makeup, whatever. And it uses the rules on 118.

Calypso

calypso

Oct 7 2005, 04:47 AM

QUOTE (Gothic Rose @ Oct 6 2005, 11:29 PM)

I am deeply, deeply saddened that in order to use the Disguise skill, you have to have Computers, an Edit program, and highly specialized equipment. *sigh*

You don't. You can just make computer generated latex masks using computers to help with your disguise.

Gothic Rose

Oct 7 2005, 04:49 AM

QUOTE (calypso)

QUOTE (Gothic Rose @ Oct 6 2005, 11:42 PM)

And yet, I can't find any rules for any other types of disguise kit -type things. Just Nanopaste and latex masks. No wigs/makeup/etc.

? Page 118. You don't need specific entries for disguise stuff.... it involves wigs, makeup, whatever. And it uses the rules on 118.

Calypso

But there are no gear entries for such, that's all I mean.

TheNarrator

Oct 7 2005, 04:55 AM

While they don't seem to have bothered to include a "disguise kit" among the kinds of gear, something like wigs and makeup is simple enough, available enough (every theater troupe and Halloween Costume Shop in the UCAS would have them) and cheap enough that I think you could convince your GM to let you have them without bothering with rules for them... sort of like how ordinary clothing is covered by lifestyle.

If worst comes to worst, call it a "tool kit" with the tools appropriate for using the Disguise skill and pay

500 just like you would for a box of wrenches to use with a Mechanic skill.