I checked the FAQ already and couldn't find what I was looking for.
In Magic in the Shadows, in the "Spirits" chapter, it says: "If the victim is killed or knocked unconscious, the spirit is unharmed, but it is driven back into astral form."
Meanwhile on page 13 of Critters, it simply says that "if the victim is incapacitated (suffers Deadly Physical damage) by Physical damage, the spirit is unharmed but driven back into astral form."
So does Deadly Stun damage drive a possessing spirit out of its victim? My gut tells me that MitS takes precedence over Critters, but I was wondering what you all thought.
Full Version: Possession
What Critters says doesn't really directly invalidate what MitS says.
No, it doesn't. However, the implication is that only Physical Damage "evicts" a spirit.
| QUOTE (Velocity @ Oct 11 2005, 11:09 AM) |
| No, it doesn't. However, the implication is that only Physical Damage "evicts" a spirit. |
What i'm saying is that is weak. There are other equally valid reasons for the omission, such as the author brainfarted and forgot about someone being knocked out. Or it never occured to them. If the intention was to exclude knocking out it would be reasonable to assume that they would be at least a bit explicit about it.
EDIT: Note that it does not use the word "only" or any other related qualifier.
P.S. I don't have Critters so i can't really talk about the context.
| QUOTE (blakkie) |
| If the intention was to exclude knocking out it would be reasonable to assume that they would be at least a bit explicit about it. |
Of course it would be reasonable to presume that, but take a look at the thread on bioware and the 'Bio-Rejection' Flaw to see why I'm asking this question.
(In a nutshell, even though 'Bio-Rejection' doesn't explicitly mention bioware--and the FAQ doesn't have any info--it turns out that a character with that Flaw can only ever get cultured bioware. The Flaw is written ambiguously and I only got a straight answer by e-mailing 'info@shadowrunrpg.com')
Like I said, my gut tells me that what's written in MitS is probably accurate, but I wanted to know if anyone else had any input on it.
| QUOTE (blakkie) |
| [...] P.S. I don't have Critters so i can't really talk about the context. |
Just wanted to point out that the 3rd Ed. GM Screen and the Critters mini-sourcebook are free downloads to be found on the SR site.
As to the original question, normally I would go with the MitS since it the primary source for this kind of info, but it seems awfully easy to get rid of a possessing spirit.
"Sorry, Joe, I just had to beat you up. Thought you were being possessed."
| QUOTE (McShaw) |
| As to the original question, normally I would go with the MitS since it the primary source for this kind of info, but it seems awfully easy to get rid of a possessing spirit. |
That was my thinking as well, although depending on the spirit, this may be more difficult: "replace all [of the victim's] Mental Attributes with the spirit’s." (Critters, p. 13) With a high-Force spirit, it could be quite difficult to knock the target unconscious.
Even then, it's still easier than dealing enough physical damage to "kill" the target, considering that the possessing spirit adds its Force to the victim's Body. So yeah, no matter what it's easier to knock the victim unconscious.
| QUOTE (McShaw) |
| As to the original question, normally I would go with the MitS since it the primary source for this kind of info, but it seems awfully easy to get rid of a possessing spirit. |
If it boots the spirit from the body unharmed, and the spirit intent on using that body, it could just wait around holding its action until the PC woke up (already having a serious stun) and possess him in a single combat phase.
...and do we really want to force PCs to kill each other because they're not sure if the mage is possessed or not?
I'm with Blakkie on this one.
On general principle I'd say that MITS takes precedence anyway. But even though MITS specifically states either will do it, from a rational basis I think knocking the possessee out would force the spirit out. Spirits aren't immune to stun damage iirc, they just take it as disruption damage and if they get to deadly stun or physical damage they are disrupted. I reckon that would be an equivalent of getting bumped out of the body.
On general principle I'd say that MITS takes precedence anyway. But even though MITS specifically states either will do it, from a rational basis I think knocking the possessee out would force the spirit out. Spirits aren't immune to stun damage iirc, they just take it as disruption damage and if they get to deadly stun or physical damage they are disrupted. I reckon that would be an equivalent of getting bumped out of the body.
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