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calypso
I haven't fully read/grokked the ranged combat rules, recoil comp, etc.

What is possible with an Ares Alpha on a Smart Firing Platform. Between the two of them, it provides 8 points of RC. So, what are my options?

Calypso
Gothic Rose
Ares Alpha 1,700
w/Gas Vent III 400
w/Shock Pads 50
w/Airburst Link 500
w/Smart Firing Platform 2,000
NuYen Total: 3,650
Recoil Compensation Total: 12

This means that you can fire, without penalty:

One Long Burst, one Short Burst (only one long burst per action phase) pp. 143-144 for more details

Full Burst (10 shots, that's all fully auto can do against one foe) p. 144 for more details

And, of course, you can do Suppresive Fire just as well as an unmodded AK-47.
Fortune
QUOTE (Gothic Rose)
Ares Alpha 1,700
w/Gas Vent III 400
w/Shock Pads 50
w/Airburst Link 500
w/Smart Firing Platform 2,000
NuYen Total: 3,650

4650! nyahnyah.gif biggrin.gif
Lord Ben
Personally, what we (the group) plan to use ours for is to set up a sporting rifle or a sniper rifle on a nearby rooftop from where we're doing our run. It'll be our own little remote sniper platform to use to cover our retreat or whatever.
Gothic Rose
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (Gothic Rose @ Oct 12 2005, 07:51 AM)
Ares Alpha  1,700
w/Gas Vent III  400
w/Shock Pads  50
w/Airburst Link  500
w/Smart Firing Platform  2,000
NuYen Total: 3,650

4650! nyahnyah.gif biggrin.gif

LIES! Well, no. This is what I get for thinking "Hey, I are not stupid! I are add things up in hed!" mad.gif
calypso
QUOTE (Gothic Rose)
Ares Alpha 1,700
w/Gas Vent III 400
w/Shock Pads 50
w/Airburst Link 500
w/Smart Firing Platform 2,000
NuYen Total: 3,650
Recoil Compensation Total: 12

This means that you can fire, without penalty:

One Long Burst, one Short Burst (only one long burst per action phase) pp. 143-144 for more details

Full Burst (10 shots, that's all fully auto can do against one foe) p. 144 for more details

And, of course, you can do Suppresive Fire just as well as an unmodded AK-47.

Good idea on the Gas Vent III.
Shock Pads wouldn't work, as no one is holding it (it's tripod mounted).
Airburst Link doesn't do anything for machineguns.

So hmm.... if I took a Stoner-Ares M202 and installed Gas Vent III, that would give me 9 recoil comp... then have it do Full Wide Bursts.... bwaaahahaha. I'm totally gonna get one of these.

And then, buy it another autosoft for sniper rifles like Lord Ben said.... yep. Awesome.

Calypso
Gothic Rose
Book never says that the shock pads cannot be used with a tripod - I imagine you could just set it up so that they're abutting something hard, which the gun, when it recoils, taps lightly.

But Shock Pads aren't needed. Unless you're running HEAVY weapons, like Full bore machine guns, and such, then you only ever need 9 points of recoil compensation - 18 if you're using heavy weaponry.
Lord Ben
The Ares has a built in grenade launcher though, so the airburst link is still awsome.

And I'd use narrow full auto instead of wide with the gun. 15P damage!
Gothic Rose
QUOTE (Lord Ben)
The Ares has a built in grenade launcher though, so the airburst link is still awsome.

Exactamundo! For the small investment of 500 nuyen and the minigrenades needed, you can turn your machine gun platform into a full assault platform - capable of dealing with even large things.
calypso
QUOTE (Lord Ben)
The Ares has a built in grenade launcher though, so the airburst link is still awsome.

And I'd use narrow full auto instead of wide with the gun. 15P damage!

Well, the reason I'm thinking Wide Burst is because the platform is only rolling 6 dice. 3 Pilot + 3 Targetting. So I imagine it's better to actually hit and do less damage than to miss and do a bunch of damage to the wall.

Calypso
Gothic Rose
Give it some targetting autosoft, then.
calypso
QUOTE (Gothic Rose @ Oct 11 2005, 06:13 PM)
Give it some targetting autosoft, then.

The platform comes with one rating 3 targetting autosoft. The highest rating autosoft is 4, and costs 10000 nuyen.gif. Not gonna happen.
Jaid
and a better pilot rating =P

and for the record, you only double uncompensated recoil on heavy weapons. thus, you still wouldn't need more than 10 points of RC.
blakkie
Autosofts come in ratings up to 6, no? I didn't see that limit of 4 anywhere? You can even buy rating 6 during chargen, and at a cost of only 3000 nuyen.gif .

However the Pilot to run it is only available at rating 4 at chargen (edit: and i believe indirectly caps the Autosoft rating), and since that would be 10,000 i think that is what you ment?
blakkie
QUOTE (Gothic Rose)
Book never says that the shock pads cannot be used with a tripod - I imagine you could just set it up so that they're abutting something hard, which the gun, when it recoils, taps lightly.

Hehe, i'm laughing thinking about the sourcebook smackdown you'd get trying to pull that one on a fully awake GM.


QUOTE
Shock Pad: Th is shock-absorbing pad can be mounted on
the rigid shoulder stock of a rifl e, shotgun, or heavy weapon,
and provides 1 point of recoil compensation.


QUOTE
Tripod: Tripods provide a stable basis to fi re a weapon low
to the ground with the user in a sitting or kneeling position.
A tripod can be attached to the underbarrel mount and provides
6 points of recoil compensation when properly deployed.
Attaching or removing it takes one Complex Action.


The two simply don't touch each other. nyahnyah.gif

P.S. You are correct though, it isn't needed.
calypso
QUOTE (blakkie @ Oct 11 2005, 06:26 PM)
Autosofts come in ratings up to 6, no?  I didn't see that limit of 4 anywhere? You can even buy rating 6 during chargen, and at a cost of only 3000 nuyen.gif .

However the Pilot to run it is only available at rating 4 at chargen (edit: and i believe indirectly caps the Autosoft rating), and since that would be 10,000 i think that is what you ment?

Ah, I apologize, I was in fact thinking of two different problems.

1) Autosofts are only available up to rating 4. Period. Pg. 321.

2) Pilot costs 10,000 to get at rating 4, which is the highest available at chargen.

Calypso
blakkie
QUOTE (calypso)
1) Autosofts are only available up to rating 4. Period. Pg. 321.

embarrassed.gif Missed that one, thanks. Wish they would have included that oddball limit as a side note in that table in the Wireless chapter (page 228). frown.gif
calypso
Yeah, I don't understand the limit. Whatever, it's the least of my problems right now.
Nkari
Im getting 2 myself with AK97, gasvent 3 and smartlink.. dont need much more than that, Full auto or wide bursts.. all you need.. and a dobberman with the same weapon.. plenty of usefulness there..

All you will ever need is 9 recoil comp since the first bullet in every init pass does not count for recoil..
NightRain
You could always rigger adapt the whole setup smile.gif
hyzmarca
QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE (Gothic Rose @ Oct 11 2005, 04:27 PM)
Book never says that the shock pads cannot be used with a tripod - I imagine you could just set it up so that they're abutting something hard, which the gun, when it recoils, taps lightly.

Hehe, i'm laughing thinking about the sourcebook smackdown you'd get trying to pull that one on a fully awake GM.


QUOTE
Shock Pad: Th is shock-absorbing pad can be mounted on
the rigid shoulder stock of a rifl e, shotgun, or heavy weapon,
and provides 1 point of recoil compensation.


QUOTE
Tripod: Tripods provide a stable basis to fi re a weapon low
to the ground with the user in a sitting or kneeling position.
A tripod can be attached to the underbarrel mount and provides
6 points of recoil compensation when properly deployed.
Attaching or removing it takes one Complex Action.


The two simply don't touch each other. nyahnyah.gif

A shock pad should still work if the weapon is being fired manually. A smart firing platform is a different story, however.
blakkie
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
A shock pad should still work if the weapon is being fired manually. A smart firing platform is a different story, however.

Absolutely, because then you'll have a shoulder to rest it against.
Lord Ben
Well, the reason for the narrow burst was because you can control it yourself using your own skill. In that case the 15P damage is quite good. And even 6 dice for the auto drone is pretty darn good compared to some low reactions seen on NPC's.
Aurelius

As you may or may not have realized already, you can't actually mount an Ares Alpha on a Smart firing platform, since the grenade launcer (IIRC) uses the underbarrel mount, which you need to fit it to the firing platform.
Better to just go with a belt-fed LMG, the standard one would ignore all recoil too.

Whee, first post
Jaid
the grenade launcher is built in, is it not? as such, it actually does not take up the underbarrel mount (or, i suppose more accurately, the underbarrel mount is on the grenade launcher portion).
Nikoli
Each "mount" can only hold one accesory. The underbarrel mount for an Ares alpha is taken up, that's the abstracted balance aspect coming into play. the best you could hope to attack is a sling.

Given that most modern weapons with "integral" launchers can have them removed with the proper tool. Given that such design concepts were included for a reason tells me that it still holds true for Ares as they grew out of the weapons contractors of the DoD. It also tells me that there should be other add-ons for the alpha available to swap out with, such as a shot-gun, a flame thrower, maybe a pain inducer.
calypso
Oh yeah, I did forget about that. Oh well, I was gonna go with the Stoner-Ares M202 anyway, with a belt of 100 EX-Explosive rounds biggrin.gif

Calypso
blakkie
Welcome Aurelius, and that's a very good question/point. The grenade launcher is listed as being an "underbarrel". So personally i'd either require them to use an Armour Extended Test of some sort to remove the gl first (probably minimal one threshhold though), or if the player was cunning enough to ask i might let him mount the Ares upside down. grinbig.gif
Thufar_Hawat
As an aside, what is the Body & Armour rating for the Smart firing platform? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

calypso
QUOTE (Thufar_Hawat)
As an aside, what is the Body & Armour rating for the Smart firing platform? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

I was just wondering that myself, as I'm sure at some point somebody is going to lob a grenade at the base of my smart firing platform.
Rotbart van Dainig
Until now - no Body, no Armor -> 8 Boxes, no damage resistance... like Micro Drones.

PS: Considering usage, the best way to mount an AACG on a SFP would indeed be upside down.
Jaid
QUOTE (Page 301-302)
Mounts: Shows where a weapon accessory can
be attached to a weapon: underbarrel, barrel,
or top-mount. Only one accessory can be attached
to a particular mount. Integral accessories
(those that come with the weapon)
donít take up mount locations.
Hold-outs
donít have mounts. Pistols (including machine
pistols) have a top mount and a barrel mount.
SMGs, all rifles, and heavy weapons have a top
mount, barrel mount, and underbarrel mount.
Projectile weapons can only be equipped with a
laser sight or a smartgun system.


i have bolded the relevant part. thus, an ares alpha (which comes with a grenade launcher attached) still has an underbarrel mount. have fun with your weapons platform =D
Nikoli
Thanks. Always good to know I've still got things to learn.
blakkie
The only problem Jiad is that the description doesn't describe the GL as an integral accessory. It describes it as an "underbarrel", unlike say the "integral" descriptor the White Knight has for it's gas vent.

P.S. Yes, that means you can put a sound suppressor on your White Knight. wobble.gif
Jaid
it doesn't have to. the quote clearly defines "integral acessories" as "those that come with the weapon".

the grenade launcher comes with the weapon, therefore it is integral, and therefore it does not take up the underbarrel mount.
Lord Ben
Not that I don't love nitpicking on the letter of the rules, but the picture clearly shows it as integral too.
Dragonscript
The Cannon Companion pg 22:
QUOTE

The Alpha can accomidate barrel and top mounted accessories.  The grenade launcher prevents the mounting of under barrel accessories.


The Fields of Fire pg 33:

QUOTE

The Alpha can accept barrel and top mounted accessories, but not under-barrel accessories.


I don't see a reason to change the rule now.
Jaid
how about a different edition?
Fortune
The point is that the Alpha has always been this way, though all previous editions. Why would it change now? Personally, I just think that a little bit of text was left out about how the GL uses the underbarrel mount. Seems logical to me, and that's the way it will remain working in my games.
blakkie
The text wasn't even really left out, just part of it that would make it clearer. But i guess i could see someone ruling it the other way too. *shrug*
Jaid
all right, we'll try this from another angle:

there's been five years since SR3 plotlines ended. those would be the ones with the weapons as you knew them. now, realistically speaking... weapons technology is going to improve, given five years. making an underbarrel mount on an integrated grenade launcher doesn't exactly sound that unimaginably difficult to me, at least, so i don't see why it seems so impossible to you.

in SR3, your Alpha couldn't play music, or store an agent, or any number of other things. should we just ignore that, too?
blakkie
Where does it say than an Ares Alpha can store an Agent or play music? smile.gif As far as i can tell the Smartgun system on a weapon is a piece of dedicated electronics, not a true [general use] computer.

P.S. Do you actually think Fanpro sprung for new weapons artwork? Don't those pictures look at least a bit familiar? wink.gif
Shinobi Killfist
entering luddite mode: yeah, yeah sure get a firing platform then someone hacks it and then you get you butt shot off by your own gun. You gonna let a little ol decker take your own gun and shoot you with it. Go low tech man that way when someone takes your weapon and shoots you with it its a big mean motha, not a little decker and much less humiliating.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist)
entering luddite mode: yeah, yeah sure get a firing platform then someone hacks it and then you get you butt shot off by your own gun. You gonna let a little ol decker take your own gun and shoot you with it. Go low tech man that way when someone takes your weapon and shoots you with it its a big mean motha, not a little decker and much less humiliating.

You see, that's why you don't network it. You just put it in your bedroom and program it to shoot anything and everything that moves. That way, you don'y have to worry about people attacking you in your sleep.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (blakkie)
Where does it say than an Ares Alpha can store an Agent or play music? As far as i can tell the Smartgun system on a weapon is a piece of dedicated electronics, not a true [general use] computer.

No such difference in SR4:

It has a Device Rating, thus, it has a Response (no matter how low)... running everything from Pilot to Mapsoft.

Remember Fridgy the Walking Fridge? wink.gif
Nkari
But you better be damn sure you dont sleepwalk.. nyahnyah.gif
NightRain
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
No such difference in SR4:

It has a Device Rating, thus, it has a Response (no matter how low)... running everything from Pilot to Mapsoft.

Remember Fridgy the Walking Fridge? wink.gif

Of course, you do still have the option of disabling it's wireless access, which means that to hack it someone has to get close enough to touch it. Of course, it means you need to touch it to configure it as well, but hopefully that's something you thought of before hand smile.gif
Lord Ben
A wireless Smart Platform is far more useful than a wired one... smile.gif

Besides, how many hackers are really going to look on the rooftop 300m away for a hidden device.
blakkie
QUOTE (Lord Ben @ Oct 13 2005, 06:31 AM)
A wireless Smart Platform is far more useful than a wired one... smile.gif 

...and a Skinlinked one even moreso. wink.gif Well safer at least, as opposed to being able to let go of it and still fire it, eject the clip, and look through the camera (the last likely being the most useful).

Soooo, i could have a small Agent running on it. Hrmmm.
Rotbart van Dainig
..why run an Agent when it has a Pilot?
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