This is my first Attempt at bringing these ideas i had the last days to text, so try to bear with me if it looks a little chaotic

Since SR4 came out i liked the idea of attaching a AP value to SR3 weapons. I also wanted Body Armor to be able to effecctively stop more Bullets from penetrating while introducing the concpt of blunt trauma.
Here is what i've got so far:

Body Armor is divided into Soft (Vests, Jackets,..., assume current stats for now, i'd like to keep the scaling the way it is) and Hard (carring Plates) Armor.
Assumptions:
Soft Body Armor will likely stop Handgun bullets and some of the weaker Rifle cartridges (hey, its the future ) from penetrating into the body but will cause a considerable blunt trauma, from higher powered rounds (Stun & Physical).
Hard Body Armor has a much higher chance of stopping higher powered rifle round and causes less blunt-trauma.

Weapons/Calibers get a Damage Code (standard SR3) and an Armor Piercing (AP – like SR4) Value.

Example Calibers

Handgun Calibers:
Caliber | AP | Damage Code | JHP Mods
9x19mm Para | -1 | 4M | 0/6M
.45 ACP | -1 | 5M | 0/7M
.40 S&W | -2 | 6M | 0/8M
10x35mm (Fictional - Ares Predator) | -2 | 7M | 0/9M
.44 Magnum | -2 | 7M | 0/9M
.50AE | -2 | 6S | 0/8S
5.7x28mm | -5 | 3M | -1/5M

Rifle Calibers
5.56x45mm | -6 | 5M |
7.62x39 Soviet | -4 | 6M |
7.62x51mm NATO | -5 | 6S |
7.62x54mm Russian | -5 | 6S |
.50 BMG | -10? | 10T |


Different Weapon designs and Barrel Lenghts can modify AP and Damage by a small ammount. For example 10" Heavy Pistols might get -1 AP / +1PN JHP, Rifle sats are for Carbine size Weapons.

Body Armor
Soft Armor – if
Ballisic Armor + AP <= 0 then the Armor is penetrated -> Full Damage Code + Successes must be soaked.
BA + AP >= BA/2 Armor is not Penetrated, Blunt trauma causes Stun Damage (Damage Code – remaining Body Armor, up to two Successes can raise the Damage Level).
BA + AP < BA/2 Armor is not Penetrated, Blunt trauma causes Physical Damage (Damage Code – remaining Body Armor, up to two Successes can raise the Damage Level)

Hard Armor – if
Ballisic Armor + AP <= 0 then the Armor is penetrated -> Full Damage Code + Successes must be soaked.
BA + AP > BA/2 Armor is not Penetrated, Blunt trauma causes Stun Damage (Base Damage Code – remaining Body Armor) (1/2 PN??)


Ammunition

Ex – JHP values, DL + 1, every Two hits reduce Armor by 1
ExEx – Armor Piercing Explosive rounds – FMJ stats, DL + 1, If round doesn't penetrate, reduce armor like Ex, 1/3 chance of penetrating unarmored targets before explosion (1D6 per round, on 1-2 the bullet only causes FMJ damage)
Gel - JHP stats, PN-2, stun damage
Steel Core - FMJ stats, AP -2


A Few Example Weapons:

Ares Predator (12" Barrel)
Model Caliber Ammo Conceal Mode AP Damage JHP
AP10 | 10x35mm | 15 | 4 | SA | -3 | 7M | 0/10M
AP50 | .50AE | 11 | 4 | SA | -3 | 6S | 0/8S

Colt Manhunter (6" Barrel)
Model Caliber Ammo Conceal Mode AP Damage JHP
| .40 S&W | 16 | 5 | SA | -2 | 6M | 0/8M

FN 5-7C (6" Barrel)
Model Caliber Ammo Conceal Mode AP Damage JHP
| 5.7x28mm | 20 | 5 | SA/BF | -5 | 3M | -1/5M


let's hear your opinions.

Heh. Glad to see it's catching on now.

I assume you're going to rewrite the stats of body armor, too? In any case, I think you should make use of positive Armor Piercing modifiers too, if only so that you don't end up with most forms of armor having very high ratings.

Are you perhaps considering the use of hit locations? Otherwise it's a bit difficult to argue the blunt trauma bit. Although the designers of SR4 apparently had no trouble with that...

I find it rather odd that you've made .40 S&W both more lethal against unarmored opponents and far better at penetrating body armor on both tables than either 9x19mm or .45 ACP. Based on the NIJ rating, and looking at the ballistic tables, with normal loadings .40 S&W should be insignificantly better at penetrating body armor than 9x19mm, and it would be quite hard to argue that it tends to cause larger or deeper wound cavities than .45 ACP.

About .44 Magnum vs. .50 AE, you should be careful about scaling up from Moderate to Serious and lowering Power. At 6M vs. 5S, someone capable of rolling more than 12 dice in the Damage Resistance test is likely to take less damage from the .50 AE, which is obviously not realistic. Generally, it's a good idea to keep Power at 6 or above when scaling in that manner, so that this problem is kept minimal.

Also concerning the .44 vs. .50, with the current numbers the .44 Magnum would penetrate armor better, which is rather counter-intuitive. The .50 AE doesn't necessarily penetrate armor all that much better than the .44 Magnum, but it certainly doesn't penetrate worse.

If you truly intend to make a complete system out of these, I would suggest first making a draft version with all the calibers and armor available based on how you feel about each individual item, and then double back and cross-check each item with each other one by one to see whether it makes sense that one penetrates better than the other or that they happen to do the same amount of damage to unarmored humans, etc. It's the only real way to can ensure the numbers are reasonable and internally consistant.

BTW, I kinda doubt the Ares Predator would have a 12" barrel. That thing would be fucking huge. Even the Desert Eagle is available at most with a 10" barrel.

And in case you haven't already, have a read through Raygun's Shadowrun and Firearms.

Yup, I even replied in that thread. Assuming the average human male is capable of wielding that gun, the barrel doesn't look more than 8" long, tops, assuming the action doesn't take much room (it being caseless and all).

And yeah, Magnum Research did at some point make 14" barrels for the Mark VII Desert Eagle, at least in .44 Magnum. Not anymore though. And yeah, it looks flat out stupid.

The 14" barrel isn't really any more flat out stupid than that 10". Neither is practical for anything short of long range target shooting or pistol hunting, and both look like crap. It's what they're for.

If you're not shooting a lot (eg hunting), you really could just rest the barrel on your hand. Not ideal, but it's not really going to hurt anything. I agree it's a very dumb weapon, but it really never was intended for combat, so it is sort of forgivable.