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Phelan_patrick
I have never created a matrix character before and am contemplating of building one.

My question is what are the pro's and con's between regular deckers and otaku?

Thanks.
Glyph
Otaku are much more specialized. You can make a decker who is also a good face, sammie, or even an adept or sorcerer, but otaku are good in the matrix, not so good in the "real" world.

Otaku upgrade mainly with Karma, while deckers depend more on their gear. This means that in campaigns with a lot of money or loose loot, the decker can improve himself very rapidly compared to an otaku.
Kagetenshi
Deckers:

Pro: upgrades well in cash-heavy campaigns, heavily customizable, easy multispecialization.

Con: expensive, complex, character can be crippled through the loss of a relatively small amount of equipment.

Otaku:

Pro: simple, simple, simple. Upgrades well in high-karma campaigns. Easier to make a more powerful matrix character, though depending on what rules are being used straight-up deckers can potentially outclass them.

Con: extremely difficult to make them both competent in any physical discipline and still highly matrix-effective. Difficult to properly roleplay as the nearly-alien intelligences they're portrayed as.

~J
Phelan_patrick
Thanks for the replies. One other thing, I understand an Otaku can jack into the matrix without a deck but can they use one if they wanted to? and what does that entail if it is possible?
nick012000
If they use a deck, they'd work the same way as a normal decker, unless they're just using it as an access point (to make it look like they're a decker instead of an Otaku).

I'll also point out that Otaku can be very effective with Grenade Launchers and vehicle weapons, becuase Launch Weapons and Gunnery are both Int-based.

So an Otaku can be reasonably effective in the meat world, because noone suspects the 12-year old kid to be carrying a grenade launcher under their coat...
Kagetenshi
As mentioned, Otaku use a deck like anyone else. They usually use it better, as their minimum Computers skill is equal to the maximum of a normal starting decker, but it's the same idea.

~J
toturi
QUOTE (nick012000)
If they use a deck, they'd work the same way as a normal decker, unless they're just using it as an access point (to make it look like they're a decker instead of an Otaku).

I'll also point out that Otaku can be very effective with Grenade Launchers and vehicle weapons, becuase Launch Weapons and Gunnery are both Int-based.

So an Otaku can be reasonably effective in the meat world, because noone suspects the 12-year old kid to be carrying a grenade launcher under their coat...

True. And since Launch Weapons are not one of the stated unlikely skills for an otaku to have, strictly speaking it is a good combat skill for the otaku to have.

An Otaku matrix Face may also be feasible, since you may want to max the Charisma. And remember with the "proliferation" of Social Adepts, Johnsons(GMs) may want to meet in the Matrix in order to curb those adepts with the Matrix Social Skill Modifiers(p126 Matrix).
Krazy
use the otaku as the pilot in a riggers drone on the ingress/egress, or as a remote gunner?
Slump
Just set up the drones with matrix-enabled indirect fire, and let the otaku fire mortars from within the matrix.

"Let's jack into the security cameras ... there's some corpsec sneaking up on my buds.. FIRE!! Not anymore!"
nick012000
Another use for otaku: If the corp goons have the team pinned down, the runners have a "hostage" ready for use.
mfb
one thing that otaku tend to be much better at than deckers is cybercombat. otaku basically have every combat-related program at a very high rating, whereas deckers have a hard time affording more than just the basics. an otaku will out-maneuver, out-armor, and out-damage a decker almost every time.
Toptomcat
QUOTE
An Otaku matrix Face may also be feasible...

By the numbers, not by the flavor. They may have high mental attributes, but they have trouble relating with those whose thinking is rooted in the meat world.
Eyeless Blond
Yeah, I never understood that. What exactly does a high Charisma mean if it doesn't help you deal well with other people? I always thought it made more sense for Otaku to be, well, what they are: frail, growth-stunted supergeniuses who had gotten so smart and so in-tuned with the modern hyperfast wired world that their brains adapted to transcend their bodies. Turning them into social lepers IMO really underestimated the ability of these youths; it's not like our social customs are that hard to imitate that it's beyond a person who's so smart that their brain can outthink our fastest computers.

For instance, I always had this neat scenario in my mind of an Otaku breaking into Hollywood and becoming the next big child actress. This would spark many runs, of course, as all things do. biggrin.gif
hyzmarca
QUOTE (nick012000)
Another use for otaku: If the corp goons have the team pinned down, the runners have a "hostage" ready for use.

You don't need an otaku on your team to do that. Just take any random teammate hostage. The troll works best because he'll provide better protection when the corporp goons shoot through him.
However, if you are serious with the idea you don't even need any teammates. Just put a gun to your own head and threaten to shoot yourself if they don't let you escape with the top secret paydata.
Mystweaver
I always like to think that people who love computer games have a good gunnery skill... Its how my character practises his gunnery smile.gif
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
Yeah, I never understood that. What exactly does a high Charisma mean if it doesn't help you deal well with other people?

IMO it does, just not in a face-like manner. Charisma is, roughly, sheer force of personality—you may be creeped out to all hell by these kids and just want to get away from the conversation and go have a few dozen drinks at the bar, but when they talk, you listen.

As a result, an Otaku Face seems entirely reasonable to me—they'll just have a very different relationship with their contacts from most Faces.

~J
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
<snip> 
 
Turning them into social lepers IMO really underestimated the ability of these youths; it's not like our social customs are that hard to imitate that it's beyond a person who's so smart that their brain can outthink our fastest computers. 
 
For instance, I always had this neat scenario in my mind of an Otaku breaking into Hollywood and becoming the next big child actress. This would spark many runs, of course, as all things do. biggrin.gif

Kind of like my Otaku Akima.

She's more into the music scene though. has an excellent voice, especially for a 13 year old.

In the matrix yeah, she's pretty slick (took the alternate rule of starting her with all physical attributes of 1 at chargen) Basically she's a walking maxxed out Renraku Kraftwerk. Much more the deceptive as opposed to offensive type - "you don't need to see my access code.... you can go about your business...move along" Also has pretty decent social skills & edges - including Good Rep, & Friendly Face

As to the Meat world, that is what her best friend, the Troll adept is there for. Of course being into programming, she always beleives in having a good backup - Armtech MP6 GL wired to her "custom" Carreras (Smart Shades with Range Link & x3 Electromag).
hyzmarca
When it comes to Otaku with alternate jobs you should never forget the Vampire Dissonate Otaku Empress of Japan
Fortune
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Oct 27 2005, 07:40 AM)
When it comes to Otaku with alternate jobs you should never forget the Vampire Dissonate Otaku Empress of Japan

Shouldn't that be the Ex-Vampire Dissonate Otaku Empress of Japan? biggrin.gif
Ophis
In my game shes the Ex-vampire Ex-dissonant bisexual otaku empress of japan and cousin to one of the group...

hmm need acronym EVEDBOEJCOG

There we go. I love hitomi shes so much fun.
hyzmarca
She's better as a vampire, I think. All Otaku are. All 1s for physical stats are too bad when that translates to all 13s if she's been well fed.

Of course, that pales in comparison to the Great Form Free Blood Spirit possessed Vampire Otaku Cyberzombie as a bringer of pain.
Kagetenshi
Most things do.

~J
Hoondatha
OK, I'm confused. I know she's one of Mirage's otaku (still need to get that novel...), but when did she become a vampire?
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Hoondatha @ Oct 27 2005, 08:40 AM)
OK, I'm confused. I know she's one of Mirage's otaku (still need to get that novel...), but when did she become a vampire?
toturi
Ex-vampire. As in wanna-(but-canna)-be.
Hoondatha
Ah, that explains it. I don't have SoA, so I've been staying away from those threads.
GingerbreadMan
I'd argue that the real difference in the Otaku vs Decker is a long term committment. How long will the character live?

Deckers start out a bit more well rounded in 'real' game play, while Otaku tend to lack a bit in the 'real' world. A decker will probably have a better spread of Attributes, but is much more reliant on cash and tech. Otaku can have amazing ATS, but usually spend their build points on Complex forms rather than resource. Starting Otaku are not limited to the type of program (ie - no availability modifiers). You could start with a lethal black hammer program or mean stealth if you're Otaku, Deckers will be limited on inital character design.

Deckers have a minor advantage in cybercombat - Their wounds are suffered to a seperate persona and don't immediately affect their real world (Black IC/programs are the exception)- especially helpful if you're running around constantly in and out of the matrix on a particular run. Otaku might end up bleeding from the ears before they enter the first 'real' door.

Deckers will eventually cap out with skills and programs while Otaku can eventually raise their resonance and ascend to the 'resonance' plane. Long term Otaku will become superior matrix runners, and will eventually have some spare build to make themselves useful in combat.
toturi
And the otaku is limited by Fading. You can extend the usefulness of the otaku by starting them as young as possible.
Eyeless Blond
Otaku also have an incredibly easy time whipping up Attack programs on the fly, and are very good at using them, what with the very high Computer skill, +4d6 init right from chargen (which no decker can compete with), and generally high Persona attributes.

The flip side is that until they get that Echo that lets them use Willpower to resist Black Hammer attacks one of those will generally make them fold with their 1 Bod die. Thus Dwarf Otaku are not uncommon, and really help out with that fragile kid look to boot.

One issue is that straight from chargen no decker can really even hope to challenge an Orange Easy unless the GM makes an exception and lets them buy an MPCP 8+ right from go. In fact there is a school of thought here that says "deckers" shouldn't even bother to start the game with a deck, but should instead just do whatever they chose to do as their secondary emphasis until they can steal a good one first chance. Otaku should be able to handle that, but won't be able to do anything in meatspace for a long time.
mfb
eh? why couldn't a beginning decker handle an orange-easy host? or even a red-easy? orange-average, sure, that'd be a problem. but easy hosts are... well, easy.
nick012000
Otaku can too do stuff in meat space. See the earlier post on grenade launchers.
brohopcp
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
QUOTE (nick012000 @ Oct 26 2005, 05:33 AM)
Another use for otaku: If the corp goons have the team pinned down, the runners have a "hostage" ready for use.

You don't need an otaku on your team to do that. Just take any random teammate hostage. The troll works best because he'll provide better protection when the corporp goons shoot through him.
However, if you are serious with the idea you don't even need any teammates. Just put a gun to your own head and threaten to shoot yourself if they don't let you escape with the top secret paydata.

Ah... "Blazing Saddles" An excellent movie and technique.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (mfb)
eh? why couldn't a beginning decker handle an orange-easy host? or even a red-easy? orange-average, sure, that'd be a problem. but easy hosts are... well, easy.

Red-Easy because IC starts popping so fast that anything more than a few operations is usually an exercise in futility. Orange-Easy hosts usually aren't so bad.

~J
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (mfb @ Oct 29 2005, 03:14 PM)
eh? why couldn't a beginning decker handle an orange-easy host? or even  a red-easy? orange-average, sure, that'd be a problem. but easy hosts are... well, easy.

Red-Easy because IC starts popping so fast that anything more than a few operations is usually an exercise in futility. Orange-Easy hosts usually aren't so bad.

Well, I guess it depends. If you're running an MPCP6-7 you won't be able to do much before the IC builds up unless you make extensive use of Masking mode and that Hacking Pool -> DF optional rule. And you can pretty well forget about cybercombat unless you use the other rule about supressing IC with HP instead of DF.
Slump
I've noticed (with a few sample runs, not extensive testing) that unless you start off with really high DF, unless you can sacrifice HP to supress IC, then you can't do much in a system. It just spirals out of control way to fast.

I've also noticed that having a high initiative really hoses a good decker until combat crops up. Your hacking pool doesn't refresh until all of your initiative passes are done with, but the scout (I think it's scout) IC does adds its rating to the system for detecting you on each and every one of your actions. The faster you are, the more effective it is. To fix this, I just had it do it's thing on your first set of actions (simple/simple or complex), and it couldn't do anything for the rest of your initiative passes.
Wireknight
well, yeah, cybercombat would be a bitch. but with an easy host, most of subsystem ratings are going to be low enough that you should be able to complete most objectives in 3-4 actions. and even if you trigger IC, a single maneuver should buy you enough time to finish your job and jack out. obviously, this basically only applies to datasteals; a starting decker trying to run overwatch on a host like this is asking for trouble.

edit: wireknight really said this. mfb did not forget to log wireknight out, and accidentally post in his name. there is nothing to see here, citizen. move along.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Slump)
I've noticed (with a few sample runs, not extensive testing) that unless you start off with really high DF, unless you can sacrifice HP to supress IC, then you can't do much in a system. It just spirals out of control way to fast.

I've also noticed that having a high initiative really hoses a good decker until combat crops up. Your hacking pool doesn't refresh until all of your initiative passes are done with, but the scout (I think it's scout) IC does adds its rating to the system for detecting you on each and every one of your actions. The faster you are, the more effective it is. To fix this, I just had it do it's thing on your first set of actions (simple/simple or complex), and it couldn't do anything for the rest of your initiative passes.

Wouldn't it be easier for the decker to just perform one action per turn and not use his other passes? Waiting for pool to refresh would be representitive of actually taking one's time and being carefull. Correct me if I'm worng, but no rule says you have to use all of your passes. If that were the case, everyone would be fidgity.
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Wouldn't it be easier for the decker to just perform one action per turn and not use his other passes?

Perhaps, but then there's the fact that SR3 matrix rules are rather specific about what happens when you hang around connected to a host but aren't actually doing anything. It's called a Null Operation, and while there's some wiggle room in the rules about when the Null Op is and isn't required, the fact is, there's an actual dice roll for "Doing nothing" and some GMs are going to require at least one if you're going to choose not to use all your passes in a turn.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (RunnerPaul @ Oct 30 2005, 12:42 PM)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Oct 30 2005, 03:13 PM)
Wouldn't it be easier for the decker to just perform one action per turn and not use his other passes?

Perhaps, but then there's the fact that SR3 matrix rules are rather specific about what happens when you hang around connected to a host but aren't actually doing anything. It's called a Null Operation, and while there's some wiggle room in the rules about when the Null Op is and isn't required, the fact is, there's an actual dice roll for "Doing nothing" and some GMs are going to require at least one if you're going to choose not to use all your passes in a turn.

Those rules are for extended periods, really. It's more indicative of the host doing automatic security sweeps and such. In other words, it's the kind of thing you deal with when running Overwatch; if you're making one test every Combat Turn you're just taking Delay actions (or Observe In Detail, which is an unopposed Sensor tests) for the rest of the turn, and only the most anal-retentive of GMs would force you to make NullOp tests for those.

Those same anal GMs would force you to make NullOp tests during every pass you don't have an action as well, so it ends up being the same thing. smile.gif
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
Those rules are for extended periods, really.

Which is obviously why the sliding scale of modifiers to make the test harder the longer you wait starts at a duration of a wait of "Less than 10 seconds".

They should have worded it something like 5-10 seconds, to make it clear that it's not intended for delays of less than a combat turn.

I'm in total agreement that deckers shouldn't be penalized for having fast decks and choosing not to use the speed, but the way the rules are laid out, some less clear-minded GMs would feel perfectly justified in doing just that.
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