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Critias
QUOTE (Grinder)
QUOTE (Critias @ Nov 3 2005, 03:02 PM)
QUOTE (Oracle @ Nov 3 2005, 08:08 AM)
Can anybody tell me why all these custom weapons seem so...cheesy to me?

Because they are. The CC's firearm creation rules were just about the worst thing ever in SR3.

What about vehicle combat?

To be completely honest, the vehicle combat rules have only come up in a game (at least involved me, personally, rolling dice) once, that I can recall. In that game, I was a 21 Reaction character driving via Datajack link-up (with no drive skill, mind you, just hurling handfulls of dice against a reasonable target number), and the opponent driver was, likewise, not a rigger. The end result was a giant SUV t-boning a stretch limo, with sufficiently violent and messy results, aiding my assassination attempt significantly.

I liked to think of it as busting open the crunchy armored-limo shell, to get to the chewy, gooey, assassination target inside.

So I can't really complain first hand about vehicle combat rules. Firearm creation guide, however? Anyone with a soul can see them for what they are.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Grinder)
What about vehicle combat?

Those rules work. Maneuver score gets near the firearm creation rules, but serves a useful purpose even if it doesn't do it well enough to merit use most of the time (for those who haven't learned it, maneuver score is the way SR3 vehicle rules differentiate between a Handling 2 sportscar and a Handling 2 18-wheeler—the former should be nimbler, even if they're both insanely modified). The rest of the rules mostly get a bad report for being of similar complexity to the normal ranged-combat rules but being mostly different.

~J
Lindt
QUOTE (Oracle)
QUOTE (Critias @ Nov 3 2005, 03:02 PM)
QUOTE (Oracle @ Nov 3 2005, 08:08 AM)
Can anybody tell me why all these custom weapons seem so...cheesy to me?

Because they are. The CC's firearm creation rules were just about the worst thing ever in SR3.

I knew there was a reason why I did not allow them in my games.^^

I use them to fill gaps in the gun list.

After I made the UB3R R1fl3 I wont let my players look at them any more.
Lucifer
The thing about the Firearm Creation Rules is that the final Availability and Street Index of the weapon are entirely up to the GM. I had a player who liked to make shotguns exactly like the ones in the books, but with the Selectable Clip option, which I really didn't mind and set at slightly higher availability then the guns they were based off of.

When another player created an AR with Recoil Compensation approaching infinity and the concealability of a light pistol, I set it at an untouchable Availability and ridiculous Street Index, and I told him the ammo for it was a specialty job and similarly hard to obtain (not that he ever got the gun itself, but it would have meant he'd never see APDS/AV ammo for it if he did).

And then I gave five of them to the Seraphim strike team.
Tiralee
Depends on the party

Small meeting with friends-
"Usual" Predator, concealed, loaded with ex-ex or APDS plus the Browning backup loaded with hwatever's nastier.

Polite Gathering-
2 x "usual" predators, one loaded with gel, the other with AV (If you can get it)
"Usual" backup Browning.

A night on the town-
HK SMG With all the trimming, loaded with Ex-Ex
-Usual Predator
Assorted grenades. (Willy Pete, IDPE, HE for those car-chases)

Rambunctious Goings-on
Areas Alpha with shock pads and the rest, exex and AV clips, IDPE or HE grenades.
Ares Antioch with Willy Pete and HE (x2 if you're strong enough)
Burst-fire autoshotgun with Bola or AV rounds + Grenade launcher
"Back-up" predator with AV or APDS
God-awful homebrew spray/splash chemical grenades (Hyper/DMSO/Pepper-punch/ CS AND Slipspray...The Chemistry skill of 6 had to come in handy sometime) - toss one of those down a ventilation shaft smile.gif

And the "..Sorry, wrong room" situation?
Use the Troll Mage with the Dikoted Katana.


-Tir
Ophis
I have to relate the standard running gear of an old PC from one of my games.

He went by the moniker of Mister over Planning.

Enfield AS7 Burstfire, with the fifty round drum. Tricked out with enough recoil comp to allow easy fire. The rop mount for this is used for a laser guidance conrol for...

his ballista backpack missile launcher. usually loded with antivehicle missles.

in one conc quick draw holster a ruger thunderbot with APDS.
in another conc quick draw holster a MGL grenade 6 with smoke grenades.
in another conc quick draw holster a MGL greande 6 with Thermla smoke grenades.
in a fourth conc quickdraw hoster a third MGL grenade 6 with defensive IP grenades.

Just in case some one got close her had a katana, and a couple of fine blade long knives. All dikoted of course.

If the run called for potential odd environment travel he carried something appropriate for the environment (he never, ever used this weapon, part of how he got the name)
Siege
Sorry, my imagination broke down at the image of three different, magazine-fed, grenade launchers stowed in quick-draw holsters about the body.

-Siege
Critias
My brain can't handle that last post. A combat shotgun (with a 50 round drum), a backpack missile launcher, a hand cannon, three different grenade launchers (in concealable quick draw holsters), a dikoted katana, and "a couple" of long blades.

All that PLUS "something appropriate."

Amazing.
The Stainless Steel Rat
I don't mess around.

2 shoulder-mounted Vindicator miniguns on servos that automatically point where I'm looking.

That back-pack from Fields of fire that launches mortars.

3 Great Dragon AVMs. (In concealable quick-draw holsters of course)

A suitcase nuke on a button-down trigger mechanism, so if I die it goes off.

Oh, and all of it is Dikoted. I tried to Dikote my dick once, now I have the JackHammer 5000 male-enhancement cybercock. Dikoted.

nezumi
You guys are all dorks. I have a New Hampshire class submarine in a quickdraw holster (its signature is 7/7, so it's pretty concealable), with an Ares Dragon backup and a suborbital thor launcher back in my trunk.
The Stainless Steel Rat
I vote Nezumi wins.

"pretty concealable"

Priceless.
Ophis
QUOTE (Siege)
Sorry, my imagination broke down at the image of three different, magazine-fed, grenade launchers stowed in quick-draw holsters about the body.

-Siege

In his defence they are the pistol size ones, and he was a SR2 charcter so was running on max muscle aug...
Musashi Forever
QUOTE (Ophis)
QUOTE (Siege @ Nov 4 2005, 05:40 PM)
Sorry, my imagination broke down at the image of three different, magazine-fed, grenade launchers stowed in quick-draw holsters about the body.

-Siege

In his defence they are the pistol size ones, and he was a SR2 charcter so was running on max muscle aug...

That's still pretty weak.
Kiedo
QUOTE (Critias)
QUOTE (Oracle @ Nov 3 2005, 08:08 AM)
Can anybody tell me why all these custom weapons seem so...cheesy to me?

Because they are. The CC's firearm creation rules were just about the worst thing ever in SR3.

Yeah I can definately agree with that, it took alot for her to get those guns, but the game balance shattering effect they have on starting characters, keeps them banned in all games I run.

I do like the vehicle customization rules though, mainly because vehicle combat usually never comes up. In a run with a rigger, I could definately see how they could unbalance an otherwise well thought out game.
Siege
QUOTE (Musashi Forever)
QUOTE (Ophis @ Nov 5 2005, 06:38 AM)
QUOTE (Siege @ Nov 4 2005, 05:40 PM)
Sorry, my imagination broke down at the image of three different, magazine-fed, grenade launchers stowed in quick-draw holsters about the body.

-Siege

In his defence they are the pistol size ones, and he was a SR2 charcter so was running on max muscle aug...

That's still pretty weak.

Heh. I'm willing to concede that someone who has never hefted a weapon doesn't have a frame of reference for just how absurd that is.

And muscle augment, while giving a character the strength to carry the weight does nothing to increase the overall surface area of the body in which to stow these things.

It's like saying I'm carrying six car tires, strategically placed around my body.

-Siege
Musashi Forever
I just have a hard time thinking about how to make holsters for even the smaller launchers. I mean, their bullpup config with big honking mini-grenade clips. Even if you can make holsters, my mind wants to die when I try to comprehend designing them for quick draw and concealability.

Hmm, those Red Samurai are really closing in. I know, I'll just pull my grenade launcher out of my ankle holster. (Quickness test) Excellent! "Eat exploding death surprised sec guards!"
brohopcp
It's just like cloaking under a bedsheet to take advantage of Full Cover Mods. Wearing Hammer pants would also help...
Siege
Yeah, but c'mon - how many people with weapons experience have started giggling when someone playing a samurai with no weapons experience starts rattling off "oh yeah, thirty mags for this gun and..."?

And they never do much to explain just how large a "micro" grenade is for purposes of a "single hand, magazine fed" delivery system.

-Siege
Clyde
Just think of the look on the players' faces when the sec guards start quick drawing their "pistol grenade launchers." Personally, I like to carry a sniper rifle in my front pants pocket. But I've been accused of overcompensating . . . .
Snow_Fox
We go mission specific.

We always carry hand guns and these are usually all needed in better neighborhoods. Sure an SMG would be better but it draws unwanted attention fast.

In heavier neighborhoods, smg's and/or shot guns.

To go military-assault rifles, MG's and heavier weapons we have to have a darn good reason.
Ophis
Yeah I'll admit MoPs weapon load was verging on the rediculous. It was thjings like that that got him called Mister Over Planning.

I probably should have asked about where the holsters where...
Sicarius
I for one ignore the encumberance rules unless i'm faced with something clearly bordering on the insane.
Couldn't he have had one grenade launcher, and simply.. (OH MY GOD THE SHEER HORROR) Reloaded?
Siege
QUOTE (Ophis)
Yeah I'll admit MoPs weapon load was verging on the rediculous. It was thjings like that that got him called Mister Over Planning.

I probably should have asked about where the holsters where...

To be fair, I have spent hours detailing my character's loadout, down to the sewing kit, needles and multitool particulars.

Mostly because some of the funniest moments in a game comes from a MacGyver moment when you're trying to convince your GM you actually would have a small roll of duct tape with your microtronics toolkit. grinbig.gif

But in my defense, I've never tried to justify carrying two mini-grenade launchers on top of everything else. In quick draw holsters, no less. biggrin.gif

-Siege
Fix-it
QUOTE
Mostly because some of the funniest moments in a game comes from a MacGyver moment when you're trying to convince your GM you actually would have a small roll of duct tape with your microtronics toolkit.


Who the hell would not have a roll of duct tape (or it's 2060s evolutionary equivalent) in thier microtronics toolkit????? ?? ?? ? question.gif question.gif question.gif
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