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nezumi
Oh! What a foolish mistake. yes, Optimus Prime is cool. Because Megatron is a bad guy (albeit a well-endowed one), he is teh suk as well.
Adarael
Shockwave rules all.
You cannot mess with Shockwave.
PlatonicPimp
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Humanoid mecha do have one advantage over tanks in outerspace, the ability to control their rotational velocity without burning propellant by exploiting Newton's Third Law of motion. By moving their limbs with percision, they can percisly maintain or change their rotational velocity, although their is a limit on the rotational acceleration that can be achieved without burning propellant this greatly cuts down on the fuel expenditure and thus allows the mech to opperate for longer periods with the same propellant or to opperate for the same period with less propellant.

Frankly, though, wouldn't heavy weights on tracks on the outside of a more conventional design have the same advantage?
hyzmarca
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp)
Frankly, though, wouldn't heavy weights on tracks on the outside of a more conventional design have the same advantage?

Heavy weights on a track wouldn't have the same advantage. Heavy weights that pivot on a fixed point would. Furthermore, torque = force*radius. Therefore, the longer the weights are the better.
PlatonicPimp
Hmm. Shouldn't shifting your center of mass be sufficient, no matter how you accomplish it? A similar principle is used to brace skyscrapers against the wind by putting a heavy block on a track that shiftf to counteract the force of the wind.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp @ Nov 3 2005, 06:31 PM)
Hmm. Shouldn't shifting your center of mass be sufficient, no matter how you accomplish it? A similar principle is used to brace skyscrapers against the wind by putting a heavy block on a track that shiftf to counteract the force of the wind.

I suppose it depends on how heavy the weights are and how much acceleration you want. Prelimenary experimental data suggests that long pivoting limbs would produce more force. However, my data collection methods wren't very reliable so I could be wrong. I'll have to do some more research.
PlatonicPimp
Even with long pivoting limbs, I can esily imagine a more efficient system than actual LIMBS. I'll try a diagram, but the idea is a lond pole with a weight on either end, running through the ship, capable of sliding to one side or another and being rotated as maneuvering demands.


[]--------|ship here|--------[]
SMDVogrin
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Humanoid mecha do have one advantage over tanks in outerspace, the ability to control their rotational velocity without burning propellant by exploiting Newton's Third Law of motion. By moving their limbs with percision, they can percisly maintain or change their rotational velocity, although their is a limit on the rotational acceleration that can be achieved without burning propellant this greatly cuts down on the fuel expenditure and thus allows the mech to opperate for longer periods with the same propellant or to opperate for the same period with less propellant.

This is easily countered by mounting a flywheel system inside the tank. Speed up or slow down the flywheel = change the tanks rotation.

Some existing satellites use this system rather than attitude thrusters.
PlatonicPimp
Zactly what I'm talkin' about.
Czar Eggbert
Two words PP, OUTLAW STAR!

The Eggman
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (Cray74)
QUOTE (RunnerPaul @ Nov 3 2005, 12:47 AM)
For anyone too lazy to search the old threads, one good starting point would be the hard-shelled JIM-suit exoskeletons described in the various sourcebooks that have rules for SCUBA diving.
You'd have to use house rules with those. JIM suits aren't vehicles that can be modified under R3 rules. They lack Body scores.

To keep it as canon as possible, a large anthroform is probably a better start.
And anthroform drones don't carry passengers, unless you use house rules.



QUOTE (kryton)
I always thought Sound wave was the coolest of all the Transformers.....
He certainly has the slickest moves.
ShadowDragon8685
I don't believe I just watched Transformers techno... smile.gif

But Jehuty rules all. If you want a reason, here's a reason:
Even in a tank, even if you have a Rigger, it's a tank. It's a very foreign shape to a Rigger. Jehuty, however, has a basically human shape, with wings of force. When you're piloting Jehuty, you are the Frame. That level of integration gives you a bond with the machine that you will never have with a tank.
hyzmarca
To hell with mecha, lets make Transformers in SR. You just have to push back the date of the volcanic eruption that reactivated them to after the awakening.

Really, even with their advanced technology a Transformer is barely a match for a GD.
lorthazar
Most transformers are not a match for a GD. Certain ones however could take a GD and only be mildly challenged and a few could take them all at once and call it a minor lice infestation.

Personally I rate:
Optimus Prime, Rodimus Prime, Megatron, and Scorponok in the take a GD out with a mild sweat.

Most of the Combiners can take two GD's at once without a sweat.

Metroplex and Trypticon could take out all GDs at one. Then again they are Transforming CITIES.
Shanshu Freeman
QUOTE (Fortune)
I do seem to vaguely recall people might have been trying to do this once or twice. sarcastic.gif

you might be right at that hmmmm < scritch scratch chin >
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (lorthazar)
Personally I rate:
Optimus Prime, Rodimus Prime, Megatron, and Scorponok in the take a GD out with a mild sweat.

Most of the Combiners can take two GD's at once without a seat.

Metroplex and Trypticon could take out all GDs at one. Then again they are Transforming CITIES.

Then there's Unicron. But that one sort of goes without saying.

Of course, for sheer style, I'd have to go with Beast Wars -era dragon Megatron vs a GD.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (lorthazar @ Nov 4 2005, 12:44 AM)
Most transformers are not a match for a GD.  Certain ones however could take a GD and only be mildly challenged and a few could take them all at once and call it a minor lice infestation.

Personally I rate:
Optimus Prime, Rodimus Prime, Megatron, and Scorponok in the take a GD out with a mild sweat.

Most of the Combiners can take two GD's at once without a seat.

Metroplex and Trypticon could take out all GDs at one. Then again they are Transforming CITIES.

Rodimus couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag without Kup there to direct him.

Optimus, on the other hand, might be a challange to a GD. Megatron could kill a GD in one hit from his fusion cannon which has to have deadly navel base damage.

Unfortunatly, GDs could also kill Megatron and Optimus in one hit from a high force manabolt/ball. Transformers would have absurd body but only above average willpower. If you convert the box stats to SR stats then Optimus and Megs probably have around 9 or 10 Willpower. However, GDs can reasonably makes those TNs. So, it comes down to how can strike first.

Likewise, the cities would be just as vulnerable to mana attacks if not a Wreck City spell.

The Combiners would pose more of a threat since spell targeting would be difficult. However, a decent manaball would still wipe them all out.

Beast Wars established that Transformers have living souls. Likewise, the comic (G2 especially) established that they are living beings capable of procreation. With that comes a vulnerablity to mana based spells.
ShadowDragon8685
I know I'm derailing this thread harder than a twenty-loco pile-up against the back of a freight train hauling iron ore...

HOW, exactly, do transformers procreate? That was a question I always wanted answered, and I was always curious about the female transformers (always my favorites.)
Slump
When, when a male transformer and a female transformer get together, they go on dates. If the male transformer is particularly charming, he may get invited in for some "hot coffee." If this happens, the male transformer must then press X O Triangle or Square at the right times, as well as cordinating that with Up and Down (to change speeds). After that is complete, the male transformer has successfully procreated, and is off to find more female transformers.

Note: One must manually override certain programming blocks in order for this to happen. A software hex editor can work, but so can a hardware add-on piece called a "game shark."
hyzmarca
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Nov 4 2005, 03:08 AM)
I know I'm derailing this thread harder than a twenty-loco pile-up against the back of a freight train hauling iron ore...

HOW, exactly, do transformers procreate? That was a question I always wanted answered, and I was always curious about the female transformers (always my favorites.)

According to the G2 comic, asexually. At one time, Transformers could spawn others of their kind through a form of mitosis. However, that ability was lost over time.

Beast Wars implied that Silverbolt and Blackaracnia were humping like crazy at one point, although I don't know if they were infertile or if they were just using protection. Considering that Transformers had adapted to use partialy organic bodies with animal alternate forms they certainly had the equipment, if not the ability.
nezumi
I have to admit, in a transformer vs. GD battle, I'd have to count the transformer's OR rather than its willpower for most spells, but that's just to make it a reasonably fair fight. A great dragon will have plenty of spells (and combat pool) available to dodge fussion shots and the like. If it were Optimus Prime, I'd put money on the transformer, but not by a large margin.

I wonder what transformer "protection" looks like precisely. I mean, in Megatron's case it's probably just a trigger guard, but for the less well endowed transformers? Is it hardware or software based? Maybe just a standard firewall plus NAV?
hyzmarca
QUOTE (nezumi @ Nov 4 2005, 09:46 AM)
I wonder what transformer "protection" looks like precisely. I mean, in Megatron's case it's probably just a trigger guard, but for the less well endowed transformers? Is it hardware or software based? Maybe just a standard firewall plus NAV?

A hardware firewall would likely be the best protection. Software protection would probably be available, as well, but it would be less effective. Remember, the Hate Plague doesn't discriminate based on species, alt mode, faction, or sexual preferance.
Be smart, be safe. No glove, no love.


By canon, characters and critters don't have OR. The only living beings that do are inanimate plants. A transformer is a character that transforms into a vehicle and is very similar to a spirit in drone homuculus if you go with the Beast Wars interpertation.
nezumi
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
By canon, characters and critters don't have OR. The only living beings that do are inanimate plants. A transformer is a character that transforms into a vehicle and is very similar to a spirit in drone homuculus in you go with the Beast Wars interpertation.

By canon, there are no characters or critters that precisely meet the requirements we're putting forward. A homuculus is still a magical creation first and a semi-truck second. What would an AI use?
hyzmarca
QUOTE (nezumi)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Nov 4 2005, 11:10 AM)
By canon, characters and critters don't have OR. The only living beings that do are inanimate plants. A transformer is a character that transforms into a vehicle and is very similar to a spirit in drone homuculus in you go with the Beast Wars interpertation.

By canon, there are no characters or critters that precisely meet the requirements we're putting forward. A homuculus is still a magical creation first and a semi-truck second. What would an AI use?

An AI would use a drone with OR, if an AI could fit in one. It is generally thought that they can't.

On the other hand, AIs don't go to a metaplane when they die and can can't be summoned back from said metaplane using extraordinary means. Beast Wars established that Transformer "sparks" are disrupted to a metaplane when their bodies die and that they can be called back.

Integrating Transformer spiritualism with SR magic would suggest that Transformers are unique unbindable spirits with a special varrient of the Inhabiting power.
nezumi
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Nov 4 2005, 12:01 PM)
On the other hand, AIs don't go to a metaplane when they die and can can't be summoned back from said metaplane using extraordinary means.

Or do they?

Seriously though, I feel like this is those debates that go 'how would you change so-and-so into SR rules? Well, he's super skilled but has no cyber, so he MUST be an adept!'

There is no SR analog for transformers, IMO. Hence, the specific rules would be up to the GM to decipher. OR would be acceptable, and maybe even preferable, depending upon your view.
lorthazar
Actually i would have to say that Mana spells would not be as useful against Transofrmers or any snetient robots for that metter. Astral space would just not gorund correctly. It might affect the 'spark' but the programming would still be there. Dragons would learn too late that powerbolts were the way to go.
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