I see no where in Sr3 where it says that. It refers to averaging cyber-limbs that way, but until a limb is there, you count the rest of the body as one whole.

Maybe you guys were playing with house rules? not uncommon with cyber-limbs...

I am well aware of how to perform basic math, thank you.

I did not question your formulas outcome, I questioned you formula. Pretty simple. I'm sorry you felt offended enough to attack my intelligence, but I still believe I am correct.

There is a difference between our versions, you are over dividing, for no real canon reason and getting a smaller number.

the difference is one has 5 extra physical damage boxes, while the other has just one. you get a tradeoff. neither is inherently better or worse, its just different.

we will probably get a FAQ or errata on this in time. Also, you could get a cyberskull. couldnt you count the skull or head in your equation? if natural body is 1, you man with 5 limbs has an average body of 4 (3.83 rounded up), and needs a natural body of 5 to bring his body average up to 5 (4.5 rounded up).

a human with obvious cyberlimbs can at best get his 3 stats at 8/8/9 average, and have 5 extra wounds (arms 8/8/8, legs 9/10/10, torso 6/7/7). If he wants to he can change those numbers around a little for arms and torso. having one arm be agil 10 str 6 and the other str 10 agil 6 keeps the average, and with ambidex have the best ability for a task as needed. (if we count natural atributes for the head, and assume a 3, the average stays the same. atribute 1 drops it to 7/7/7)

So cyberlimbs can do impressive stuff. but they are as expensive as all heck, and its hard to find the upgrades.

@squinky: Would you please comment on the example I gave?

Why does a fullborg with body 4 in everythng, except in his cybertorso (where he has body 6) have a lower average body than a char who also has body 4 everywhere (except in his cybertorso, where he has 6) because it is his natural rating of 4?
In YOUR system, both have exactly the same per-limb stats, but different average stats. In MINE, they have all the same ratings.


There is no logical reason to handle a body part different just because it is cyber and thus change the mathematical weight of this body part.

@teuflisch: ok, then make the example for agility, not body. It is not a tradeoff, but a oversimpled rule that does not work properly. It is simply mroe convinient to average only over cyber party and natural bodyinstead of averaging over everybody part regardles of cyber/noncyber status. But the oversimplification makes it inconsitent.

Also, I dont count the head in my calculation because it is too small a part to be considered and does not have strength and agility. For consistency and streamlining reasons it should not have body either and should only provide space for additional cyberware and give one box on the physical damage track.

Well, because it's the rules is the only reply I can give. I'm sure we can all conjure up our own little scenarios showing the merits of each of our opinions, but that gets us nowhere.

The defining factor here is the rules, Sr4 rules, not Sr3 rules.

Edit--Also, why would a cyber-sammy with a body 6 get body 4 limbs? Heh...

Sure, thats the only reason, but certainly not logic or suckyness. . .

If we are taking SR3 as the standard to go by, it only spoke of averaging the natural attribute with that of the cyberlimb, and for locations for armor it divided it up into 5: head, arms, legs, chest and back...

In SR4 I'm pretty sure it says that you average all limbs that are used for a test, though. That seems to imply that you count meat limbs separately...

You know, I think you are right. Re-reading it again, the rules do say limbs. But I was thinking only cyber limbs...guess it dosen't make that big of a diff anyway....