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mmu1
Let me present a hypothetical scenario, taking place in Bug City. (so there's a clear idea of the stakes and circumstances)

Your team has gotten into a bit of a tight spot - your surprise attack that was meant to extract a valued contact from a lightly fortified building stumbled into an ambush. Of the three lightly armed people that entered the building "undercover", one is down - possibly dead - one is captured, and one has quietly taken out the guards watching the contact, and is trying to get him out of the building. Meanhwile, outside, the team's Strato drone was just taken down by a sniper firing AV ammo, and the rigger - who was meant to be the second part of a one-two punch - has to pull back and regroup. (and waste time diggin for a stimpatch to deal with the dumpshock)

The guy who's with the contact (who happens to be a good friend of his) - armed with a pistol and a single IPE concussion grenade he smuggled in - is moving toward the front of the building stealthily (with the contact staying back and in cover) and gets the drop (surprises, in game terms) on a group consisting of five or six enemies, one of their leaders, and the teammate that had been captured. In a three meter wide hallway.

Do you throw the grenade - because there were something like 20 bad guys in this place, and this is your one big chance to adjust the odds in your favor, with no backup coming anytime soon - knowing that it's guaranteed to disable your teammate, and there's a chance it might kill him?

Would your character view a runner who did that sort of thing as a professional simply making the best of a bad situation, or as someone you wouldn't want to run with?
Straight Razor
simple. throw the grenade. nothing sounds prettyer that a grenade spoon chiming through the air. the guy should live. if not. o well. better luck next reincarnation. If he dose live. i'll have a stem pack ready for him. unless he's a mage. then... yea i'd still have a stem pack.
Siege
Ooooh, hypotheticals.

What's your opinion on the teammate? Friends? Professional associates only?

Tossing the grenade is the more amusing option, but the situation is hosed and your job is finished.

You could toss the grenade, hope the NPCs dive for cover and then scurry through the fragged room, dragging the maybe dead teammate out the door and hope you can make a break before they regroup and pursue.

-Siege
brohopcp
I would be upset if that happened to my character, but then realize that it was my own fault for being captured and my teamate was just trying to get the job done, not specifically targeting me. However, I'd be ready with an explanation of your actions just in case the player who's character just died doesn't take it well.
Lucifer
Shoot the hostage. Or toss the grenade, in this case. Though the idea of throwing the grenade without arming it first just to try and make the enemies scatter is rather amusing, let's face facts: if they don't scatter then you're dead meat, and these guys sound professional enough to notice you didn't pull the pin.

If you don't toss the grenade, the captured teammate is more or less dead anyway, right? Do you have anyone else on the way to save him? Besides, you've got the contact to think about, and your rigger at least is going to be pretty pissed if you went through all this only to get him killed in an avoidable firefight.
Siege
Professional usually means you grab cover first and then wait to see if the pin was left in.

Professionals know what grenades do and know what they can't do if they get caught in the grenade AoE.

-Siege
mmu1
QUOTE (Siege @ Nov 16 2005, 12:58 PM)
Ooooh, hypotheticals.

What's your opinion on the teammate?  Friends?  Professional associates only?

Tossing the grenade is the more amusing option, but the situation is hosed and your job is finished. 

You could toss the grenade, hope the NPCs dive for cover and then scurry through the fragged room, dragging the maybe dead teammate out the door and hope you can make a break before they regroup and pursue.

-Siege

Yes. My hypothetical character, with a hypothetical grenade, during a session we hypothetically played yesterday. wink.gif

IMO, tossing it was the right choice - the guy who was captured not only survived it, but managed to stay conscious, which is an interesting revelation about the character (This is what happens when you have a creative GM and decide to make a character with maxed-out Amnesia...), roughly half the opposition is down as a result (including a man in charge that was probably a physad or something), we should be able to easily turn the tables on the other half, and since we are in Bug City post-quarantine, the explosions don't really blow the mission. (in fact, the plan was for the rigger to hit from the outside, with the characters inside attacking at the same time - a covert extraction in force. nyahnyah.gif)

What I was curious about mostly was not just whether other people thought it was the right thing - or only thing - to do given the circumstances, but how they'd view this sort of thing in terms of team dynamics / professional runner code, etc.
PBTHHHHT
It's a tough call. But glad to hear the other character made it out.

Normally, you try and not leave a guy behind. But... for this case where he's captured... it really depends on the mindset between your characters.
Siege
Considering all the influencing factors are subjectively important, it's really a matter of opinion.

For what it may be worth, I would've tossed that sucker too.

-Siege
Critias
Toss the 'nade, every time. PC's get access to karma pool and Hand of God, why waste time on guilt?
PlatonicPimp
In one of my games, Killing other PCs, even in a bad situation, would be frown apon. It's a bit metagaming, but you don't cut your losses on people who are members of your team. You go to the wall fro them. Better in my opinion to have the whole party die trying to get everyone out alive than to kill a hostage party member just to geek some guards. If all else fails, you give back the dude you extracted in exchange, and call the run a loss.

If the other players can deal with the fact that you geeked their character, then that's fine. I've actually been in mob game where my character was killed by the rest of the party for blowing one too many deals, and it was fine. But as a rule, you should aviod killing other PCs at any cost.
Siege
Ya know, of all the places I don't want to be captured, Bug City is pretty high on that list.

-Siege
mmu1
For what it's worth, if it had been a real grenade, I almost certainly wouldn't have thrown it.

Since it was a concussion grenade, I knew there was a serious chance of physical injury to the teammate because of the very restricted space, but figured we all had better chances of making it out alive if I threw it than if I tried to shoot it out.
nezumi
My answer would depend upon the character. If I were the guy in the middle, assuming I had had a good relationship with either the player or the character beforehand, I wouldn't really hold a grudge against the player. Really, either course is justified. Given most of the characters I have right now though, that grenade would be in the air.

(One wonders if you couldn't set it up with a tripwire as a mine, in which case you could hit fewer bad guys, but perhaps keep the hostage from getting as hurt. Thinking of different solutions is always good, when you have the time.)
Prosper
Knowing the folks I play with, they would've used a white phosphorous grenade if they had one!

Seriously though, if it was a concussion grenade I would toss it.
PBTHHHHT
Too bad the character couldn't smuggle in an extra grenade, this one a flashbang or such.

Well, this scenario reinforces the principle of having one set of lethal weaponry and another for non-lethal if there's room.
Sicarius
Throw the grenade...

best circumstances.. teammate survives and is rescued.. worse case scenario teammate dies, but the enemy can't get any information out of him.

Teulisch
considering that the bad guys are either bugs, or working for bugs? if i was the hostage, i know id prefer a gernade sandwitch to getting eaten by the bugs. Fate worse than death, that. you throw your gernades, and pray they work.

mmu1
QUOTE (Teulisch)
considering that the bad guys are either bugs, or working for bugs? if i was the hostage, i know id prefer a gernade sandwitch to getting eaten by the bugs. Fate worse than death, that. you throw your gernades, and pray they work.

Well, that's definitely the worst case scenario in Bug City, but not necessarily a given.

The setup was this: The guy we were trying to bust out is a surgeon. (one of my character's Level 2 contacts) After the quarantine happened, some enterprising goons basically took him prisoner at his medical practice, and started selling his services to anyone who could pay them in food or ammo. We'd have wanted the guy freed regardless, but even more so in this situation, since we had a number of people in need of medical attention, and expected to have more, the way things were going.

My character has a transducer, so when he came in pretending to be a patient (carrying a backpack with food as payment, with the concussion grenade hidden among cans of Aztecola), the doc caught on instantly and plugged into my datajack for "diagnostics", allowing us to have a detailed conversation under the noses of the guards... Which did reveal, among other things, that while one guy is visibly in charge, all the real decisions seem to come down from his "associate" who stays out of sight at all times, and is supposed to be a magician. Which of course makes you wonder what other, ulterior motives they might have had for taking over a medical practice.
PBTHHHHT
smooth. I like that part where ya had the conversation under their noses.
RunnerPaul
Just a concussion grenade? Throw that thing!
blakkie
QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)
smooth. I like that part where ya had the conversation under their noses.

Indeed. notworthy.gif

Anyway, to the question. I'll sometimes go with the colateral damage option even when it's really only about equal tactical value to other options. So, umm, i'm a bit puzzled where "Tough Calls" ties into this? Did you leave out something, like the captured guy owed you a LOT of money that you wouldn't be able to collect if he died? grinbig.gif

QUOTE
IMO, tossing it was the right choice - the guy who was captured not only survived it, but managed to stay conscious, which is an interesting revelation about the character (This is what happens when you have a creative GM and decide to make a character with maxed-out Amnesia...),


You GM was playing it by the book, the Amnesia PC didn't know this would happen?
FlakJacket
QUOTE (blakkie)
You GM was playing it by the book, the Amnesia PC didn't know this would happen?

Well the full on five point amnesia flaw says that the PC doesn't know their past, skills or abilities and that the GM should write up the character so that goes for their attributes and edges and flaws as well. Kind of drastic putting him up against a concussion grenade in crowded territory as a way to figure out what kind of body rating and cyber/bioware he might have, but needs must when the devil drives I suppose. smile.gif
hyzmarca
Generally, Bug City + Captured = Kill them just to be safe unless the characters know how long it takes to invest a flesh form then it is kill him then it equies Kill them just to be safe if they've been captured longer than that time.

Am I the only one who doubts the wisdom of rescuing this surgeon contact?
PlatonicPimp
Damn, Y'all are cold. Forgive me if I don't feel safe running with a bunch of people who would kill me for a tactical advantage.
PBTHHHHT
He never said the captors were bugs. Just that it's in post-bug city times. There's still lots of mundane operations running about that don't have to be bugs. Yeah, if it's bugs, then the grenade would have been in the air already. But from what it reads, it doesn't seem like they're bugs.
blakkie
QUOTE (FlakJacket)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Nov 16 2005, 10:01 PM)
You GM was playing it by the book, the Amnesia PC didn't know this would happen?

Well the full on five point amnesia flaw says that the PC doesn't know their past, skills or abilities and that the GM should write up the character so that goes for their attributes and edges and flaws as well. Kind of drastic putting him up against a concussion grenade in crowded territory as a way to figure out what kind of body rating and cyber/bioware he might have, but needs must when the devil drives I suppose. smile.gif

I think it kicks ass, and not just from a GM POV. Sounds like a really fun moment all around. A big salute to the GM if that is what was happened. smile.gif
blakkie
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp)
Damn, Y'all are cold. Forgive me if I don't feel safe running with a bunch of people who would kill me for a tactical advantage.

Well at least you'd be able to rest assured that you teammates won't risk humping the mission and get a TPK just because they were sobbing over catching a single member in a little Stun.

P.S. As a player i personally do use more caution in SR than other games where the margin between a tickle and death is smaller, and death is nigh unreversable (save for the extremely expensive Hand of God).
PlatonicPimp
Stun is all well and good, but the situation was described as such that he wasn't sure if his teammante could survive it, since he was already wounded.

And as I stated earlier, as both a player and a GM I'd prefer a total mission hump to and TPK to having one player tactically decide to write off another. I'm thinking about the party dynamics between the PLAYERS in the real world. The player who gets hosed can and probably will feel ill will to the one who wrote him off. If the whole party dies trying to rescue them, the players themselves will bond over the moment, even if they have to create all new characters.

Hell, if the players show that kind of camraderie, I'd give them bonus Karma for their new team.
mmu1
I don't know how exactly he managed to survive that grenade since my character dove for cover after throwing it (though I did specify I would be tossing it as far from him as I could, and still nail the bad guys), but it was a big surprise that he stayed conscious to everyone else on the team - and as far as I know, also to the player in question, because the GM has been running the Amnesia flaw as written.
Lucifer
Maybe you should try the fantasy genre? Last time I checked, "Life is cheap" is a core foundation of the cyberpunk genre - maybe even the core concept - and even though Shadowrun is more of a hybrid, you'll still find that in most of the 'runs gone bad' stories told in-character in sourcebooks like Threats that sacrificing or even outright killing a fellow runner in a hopeless situation is pretty common.

Tossing a grenade on the gamble that the captured character will survive isn't cold. Having a sniper put a bullet in his head to make sure he doesn't talk, that's cold. The former is just slightly luke-warm by Shadowrun standards.
FlakJacket
QUOTE (Lucifer)
Tossing a grenade on the gamble that the captured character will survive isn't cold.  Having a sniper put a bullet in his head to make sure he doesn't talk, that's cold.

Possibly, possibly not. If you know that there's zero chance of running a rescue mission to get them back then giving them a quick and painless death as opposed to a long drawn out and excruciatingly painful interrogation before being executed or similar ending could be viewed as the last favour of a good firend.
mmu1
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Generally, Bug City + Captured = Kill them just to be safe unless the characters know how long it takes to invest a flesh form then it is kill him then it equies Kill them just to be safe if they've been captured longer than that time.

Am I the only one who doubts the wisdom of rescuing this surgeon contact?

Going with that logic, we ought to execute our whole team just to be completely safe... biggrin.gif

You see, everyone has been really good about not metagaming our reaction to the various strange events going on, and got mixed up in all sorts of weird stuff, and... Well, the long and the short of it is, UB has been trying to hire us for the last three in-game days to try to smuggle a cargo out of Chicago for them, and we're running out of ways to say "maybe". (though they offered us such an absurdly large amount of money for it, no one on the team is willing to touch it with a stick - I don't think the UB hippies quite get how runner minds work...)
FlakJacket
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Am I the only one who doubts the wisdom of rescuing this surgeon contact?

If the players had a decent shot at getting out of the Zone then it could have gone either way depending on how mercenary the characters are. If they could get out then the pros of it are the one PC's gets to keep their contact and the others get a surgeon that owes them big time, and since runners seem to have this annoying tendency of keep getting shot/stabbed/otherwise injured this is always a good thing. If they can't get out of the Zone then this guy becomes a golden commodity - he can patch them up and they can team up and trade his skills for stuff whilst watching his back. Combination made in heaven.
Siege
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Generally, Bug City + Captured = Kill them just to be safe unless the characters know how long it takes to invest a flesh form then it is kill him then it equies Kill them just to be safe if they've been captured longer than that time.

Am I the only one who doubts the wisdom of rescuing this surgeon contact?

Hell no. Having a surgeon owe you favors is always a good thing. Unless, of course, he sprouts into a Bug and...well...eats you. But until he starts nibbling, he's still a good contact to have.

And PP - quite honestly, this is Shadowrun. Granted, most PCs aren't as bad as, say, "Reservoir Dogs", but two things remain the same.
  1. Life is precious
  2. Charity begins at home

And as many people pointed out, being captured by people who may have little or no compunctions to taking revenge for the loss of a valued asset...yeah, just kill me.

I'd rather not be sold off to organ leggers a piece at a time. Or disappear into a slave pit or...well...fill in the blank here. And this is assuming they aren't Bugs or something equally unsavory.

And, let's face it - it's not a tactical advantage...they could have strolled away with minimum fuss and not bothered at all.

-Siege
Kagetenshi
I will add that had the walls been brick, or had there been a firewall nearby, the teammate and everyone else in that hallway would have died.

That said, I believe making the throw was the correct call.

Edit:

QUOTE (PlatonicPimp)
Stun is all well and good, but the situation was described as such that he wasn't sure if his teammante could survive it, since he was already wounded

He was unwounded. Under the initial assumption that the walls were Structural Material, estimated damage code was 58M Stun, staged by rolling half Power against TN 4, with damage stageable into physical.

~J
Lucifer
QUOTE (FlakJacket)
QUOTE (Lucifer)
Tossing a grenade on the gamble that the captured character will survive isn't cold. Having a sniper put a bullet in his head to make sure he doesn't talk, that's cold.

Possibly, possibly not. If you know that there's zero chance of running a rescue mission to get them back then giving them a quick and painless death as opposed to a long drawn out and excruciatingly painful interrogation before being executed or similar ending could be viewed as the last favour of a good firend.

Well, keep in mind that 'cold' and 'warm' are generally a matter of sentiment vs. logic and not morality. Even though popping his head like a pimp may be in his best interests, and even the 'right' thing to do, it still requires a degree of emotional disconnect to be able to perform the act.

Personally, I like cold, as long as the character has some cause or connection that will cause him to go warm. Most of the better Shadowrun novel characters are pretty cold-blooded, but that one thing/person that melts them is the subject of an entire novel.

From what I can remember, most of the 'warm' Shadowrun characters were the focus of criminally shitty novels. I don't begrudge people the right to play Robin Hood and Lancelot in the dystopian future if that's what works for them, but I do think they're largely missing the point.

Or, to put it another way: an Evil character in a D&D party can be an interesting change of pace, but an entire party of Evil characters misses the point of heroic fantasy. A lone shadowrunner with unshakable morals can be a good change of pace for an SR team, but a full group of them is similarly off-genre.
blakkie
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp @ Nov 16 2005, 05:14 PM)
Stun is all well and good, but the situation was described as such that he wasn't sure if his teammante could survive it, since he was already wounded.

And as I stated earlier, as both a player and a GM I'd prefer a total mission hump to and TPK to having one player tactically decide to write off another. I'm thinking about the party dynamics between the PLAYERS in the real world. The player who gets hosed can and probably will feel ill will to the one who wrote him off. If the whole party dies trying to rescue them, the players themselves will bond over the moment, even if they have to create all new characters.

Hell, if the players show that kind of camraderie, I'd give them bonus Karma for their new team.

There is smart risk and dumb risk and times when you are neck deep in turds. When any or all of the players have a tough time differentiating between #1 and #2 or recognizing when it is #3 and not #3 yes you can have RL issues. *shrug*

This isn't about out and out purposely killing a PC. He didn't know for sure if the captive would live, but it was also uncertain that the captive would die. After identifying the situation best you can, evaluating options, and weighing the risks he made the call. Risk of PC death that is something that is intentionally part of the game.

I have never found myself in a situation where i felt compelled to intentionally bring about the certain death of another player's PC to save the whole party/mission. I also don't recall ever killing or permanently maiming a PC....that i didn't intend to bring about certain death to.**

I do understand and appreciate that sometimes you have to make allowances for POV of other individual players, and judge where they are willing to go. Hey, talk to the player right at that moment, within whatever table-talk limits apply. (EDIT:I've found having and conveying some sort of compasion helps too. Things like "Hey, don't rip up that character sheet. I want to frame and hang that sucker in my trophy room." are likely not condusive to a friendly gaming environment. biggrin.gif ) But you can't deal with your PC dieing by bad luck or an honest, non-recuring mistake made by another player? IMO you shouldn't have that PC at the table. If you can't deal with any of your PCs dieing under those circumstances you should likely deeply consider if you are at the wrong table.

I have done that before and once walked away from a table/group permanently after incidentS involving players unable to clearly identify #3 (i actually suspect it was something more malicious and/or pathological than that). Life is too short to put up with that.

** But that's a whole different kettle of fish, and set of stories. smile.gif
Sahandrian
I have two groups, and the topic of PKs would prolly get a different answer from each.

In the online group, the one that's been around longer but has younger players (the average age is about 3 years below the live group's), the general reaction to killing a hostage to save the run would be along the lines of "How could you, there was a chance to save him", etc. Typically from the shaman or the face.

But in the live group (on my college campus), the mindset is more, "Hey, the grenade went where it was supposed to. You should have gotten out of it's way."

But in either group, the only characters who carry grenades would have thrown it anyway.
blakkie
QUOTE (Lucifer @ Nov 16 2005, 07:13 PM)
Or, to put it another way: an Evil character in a D&D party can be an interesting change of pace, but an entire party of Evil characters misses the point of heroic fantasy.

Oh man, does our group ever miss The Point at times. As in 180 away from The Point. rotfl.gif Fortunately they still have fun.

P.S. I appreciate the irony of that coming from someone with the handle Lucifer...even though Lucifer was a Biblical translation quirk that was then mistaken for Satan...but of course that's another story too, and maybe you already know it. smile.gif
Siege
I thought the point of Heroic fantasy was to rescue dragons, cure virgins and loot anything not nailed down?

Oh, wait - that's the rogue's creed.

Right, the point was to die penniless and alone, facing down hordes of evil monsters before they overwhelm you and roast your family jewels from pointy sticks as an "After Slaughter Snack?"

Oh, wait - that's the Paladin's creed.

Ok, I got it - live long enough to score some cred and have a good time before something bigger and badder slaps you down?

Yup, that's the shadowrunner's creed.

-Siege
Lucifer
QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE (Lucifer @ Nov 16 2005, 07:13 PM)
Or, to put it another way: an Evil character in a D&D party can be an interesting change of pace, but an entire party of Evil characters misses the point of heroic fantasy.

Oh man, does our group ever miss The Point at times. As in 180 away from The Point. :rotfl: Fortunately they still have fun.

P.S. I appreciate the irony of that coming from someone with the handle Lucifer...even though Lucifer was a Biblical translation quirk that was then mistaken for Satan...but of course that's another story too, and maybe you already know it. :)

I'm named after the star, not any supernatural manifestation of evil. Any attempt to imply otherwise will be subject to full legal reprecussions of libel or slander as appropriate the situation!

There's really nothing wrong with missing the point, as long as you're having fun, but when posting on a message board dedicated to a game you generally have to assume that most people there play to the genre (or close enough).
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Lucifer)
QUOTE (blakkie @ Nov 17 2005, 02:52 AM)
QUOTE (Lucifer @ Nov 16 2005, 07:13 PM)
Or, to put it another way: an Evil character in a D&D party can be an interesting change of pace, but an entire party of Evil characters misses the point of heroic fantasy.

Oh man, does our group ever miss The Point at times. As in 180 away from The Point. rotfl.gif Fortunately they still have fun.

P.S. I appreciate the irony of that coming from someone with the handle Lucifer...even though Lucifer was a Biblical translation quirk that was then mistaken for Satan...but of course that's another story too, and maybe you already know it. smile.gif

I'm named after the star, not any supernatural manifestation of evil. Any attempt to imply otherwise will be subject to full legal reprecussions of libel or slander as appropriate the situation!

There's really nothing wrong with missing the point, as long as you're having fun, but when posting on a message board dedicated to a game you generally have to assume that most people there play to the genre (or close enough).

QUOTE (Catholic Encyclopedia)
The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliance. The Vulgate employs the word also for "the light of the morning" (Job 11:17), "the signs of the zodiac" (Job 38:32), and "the aurora" (Psalm 109:3). Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:12) as preeminent among the princes of his time; to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclesiasticus 50:6), for his surpassing virtue, to the glory of heaven (Apocalypse 2:28), by reason of its excellency; finally to Jesus Christ himself (2 Peter 1:19; Apocalypse 22:16; the "Exultet" of Holy Saturday) the true light of our spiritual life.


Therefore, Lucifer is Jesus, obviously.
Deamon_Knight
Wouldn't this have been the perfect time for a mass confusion spell?
brohopcp
QUOTE (mmu1)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Nov 16 2005, 06:13 PM)
Generally, Bug City + Captured = Kill them just to be safe unless the characters know how long it takes to invest a flesh form then it is kill him then it equies Kill them just to be safe if they've been captured longer than that time.

Am I the only one who doubts the wisdom of rescuing this surgeon contact?

Going with that logic, we ought to execute our whole team just to be completely safe... biggrin.gif

You see, everyone has been really good about not metagaming our reaction to the various strange events going on, and got mixed up in all sorts of weird stuff, and... Well, the long and the short of it is, UB has been trying to hire us for the last three in-game days to try to smuggle a cargo out of Chicago for them, and we're running out of ways to say "maybe". (though they offered us such an absurdly large amount of money for it, no one on the team is willing to touch it with a stick - I don't think the UB hippies quite get how runner minds work...)

I'll disagree there. I think they understand how SR runner's minds should work. Very large sums of money and a plan to get out of there? How can you say NO!!!!! Deal with other issues after you leave. Shadowrunner's sure aren't humanitarian, who cares what 'evils/lucifers' they unleash on the world? devil.gif
Eggs
In the group I play with, putting other characters at risk of death is usually not taken personally, so long as it serves the team. For example, anybody with grenades probably would've hucked one in that situation. Now, when you intentionally kill someone, people's feelers get hurt on occasion.
On the other hand, on the rare occasion we play Vampires, it usually quickly degenerates into Player v Player after the third or fourth session of completely ignoring plotlines...
nezumi
QUOTE (brohopcp)
Very large sums of money and a plan to get out of there? How can you say NO!!!!! Deal with other issues after you leave. Shadowrunner's sure aren't humanitarian, who cares what 'evils/lucifers' they unleash on the world? devil.gif

Because the healthy shadowrunner immediately says 'boy, this sure is suspicious. Most people LIKE money.' In general, if the Johnson offers you an obscene amount of cash, he doesn't plan on paying you.
mmu1
QUOTE (brohopcp)
I'll disagree there. I think they understand how SR runner's minds should work. Very large sums of money and a plan to get out of there? How can you say NO!!!!! Deal with other issues after you leave. Shadowrunner's sure aren't humanitarian, who cares what 'evils/lucifers' they unleash on the world? devil.gif

They didn't actually give us a plan for getting out of there - we'd need to work that out ourselves. (and the cargo is pretty big)

And while we're a merry bunch of sociopaths (well, most of us, anyway), there are certain things we won't do - both because some of the characters actually have moral qualms, and because it's really not that smart to get involved with people who might want to hire you to spread a plague, firebomb a grade school, or smuggle large crates filled with unspecified cargo for people who live in a building with a large and slowly growing background count...
tisoz
QUOTE (mmu1)
They didn't actually give us a plan for getting out of there - we'd need to work that out ourselves. (and the cargo is pretty big)

How big, queen-size?
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Deamon_Knight)
Wouldn't this have been the perfect time for a mass confusion spell?

Besides the fact that the individual in question was not a mage, no, it would not have been. Too much risk of failure, and if you succeed all you've done is raise TNs.

~J
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