I do. What's the point of having it on hand it your not ready?

I guess it could work with people who know nothing about guns, but then why would they be having you remove the magazine?

Anyway, SR isn't RL and even RL isn't RL sometimes, so good luck.

there's really no reason to think about mag capacities since it won't come up in game, combat reloads are very rare in SR. I never saw enough differences in individual weapons, they could have all been generic for the entire class of weapons with maybe some flavor text describing popular brands and their reputation, mottos, etc.

yes, usually difficult and annoying as well as totally unadvised by the maker and experts.

what? I do it all the time. If your familiar with the gun it's not a problem and the +1 can make all difference. Practice.

Not real difficult to pull off with a 1911, either. Only you get a max of 8-9 rounds (15 if it's a full-size double stack).

For the record, I was talking about firearms with internal (read: non-detachable) magazines, such as the aformentioned Remington 950.

the patent for a magazine with follower that gives about +2 rounds
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?...57&RS=5,386,657

The company Mec-Gar of Gardone Val Trompia, Italy (same town as Beretta HQ, go figure!)
http://www.mec-gar.it/index.htm

The 17 rounders are flush fit for the fullsize, sticks out a half an inch in my 92SB Compact. Mecgar is about the only mag company i trust other than OEM, keep up with the Joneses, get yours today

I stand corrected. I was not aware of those. Almost makes the brick size weapon seem sensible.

say what? that's a pretty bold statement when you consider it's the same size as a 1911, perhaps you're thinking of Ruger Autos.

here's a pick of a Beretta 92SB Compact
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/beretta92sb-c.jpg

My perception is probably clouded by not ever having to bother with concealing a handgun and having mostly dealt with airsoft USPs and Desert Eagles and the like, but the HP felt almost too small for me to take seriously -- that's when I was firing it, mind you; I'd take any gun aimed at me very seriously.

how tall are you?
what make and model .380? it's possible you could find something slimmer
what type of shoulder holster are you using? it's possible a vertical shoulder holster might serve you better, there's also different fabrics if the holster itself is too bulky
what part of the gun is "printing" or "printing" the worst?

it might be more difficult, yeah people tend to notice women's curves more, all the more reason to carry.

non-gun bunnies always say "S&W .357, Beretta .380, Colt .45, etc." and leave us wondering what they're talking about. The S&W might be tricky to indentify, sometimes you have to swing out the cylinder and it's on the portion in front that was concealed by the cylinder (not a huge revolver guy, bear with me).

I've never liked this idea of "non-detachable" magazines in the sport rifles. They are almost non-existent now, as they are not really practical, and also more costly to repair if necessary, and of course they don't allow for extra loaded clips.

In all reality, the M(agazine) designation is probably only used to suggest that they take longer to load (due to covers, caps, hatches, whatever) than assault rifles and others with clips that just drop out.

Of course, the underbarrel tubes on shotguns are internal and would have to be loaded round by round (unless you had removable tubes), but I don't think magazines in sport rifles should be like that.

Now for the point: Both magazine-fed sport rifles and magazine fed shotguns could have an extra round chambered (but you'd be depending on a safetey then) with a full load in the magazine.
In the case of the magazine fed rifles, it's because the magazine in reality is probably still removable out the bottom, and in tube-format magazine rifles (the old Winchesters and such) and shotguns, you would insert an extra round through the side/bottom (depending) after the round has been chambered. (again, you'd have to depend on a potentially unsafe safety)

Unfortunately I don't have my book with me at the moment and I'm not sure about SR4, but SR3 states specifically that magazines (m) are internal (read: non-detachable). According to the rules, the Remington 950 uses this type of device for storing cartridges.

Aside from that, I have to wonder where you're getting the information you have about internal magazines and how you're classifying it. The vast majority of rifles marketed for sporting use these days include non-detachable magazines, particularly bolt action (internal box magazine) and lever action (tubular magzine) rifles. Internal magazines are extremely practical for what they're designed to do. They generally hold an acceptable number of rounds (generally 2-7, depending on the cartridge) are also not anywhere near as prone to being damaged as detachable magazines being internal parts of the rifle, and they're not terribly costly to repair, consisting generally of a stamped sheet steel box, a leaf spring and a follower. There's absolutely nothing odd about having a non-detachable magazine on a sport/hunting rifle.

You can read about exactly what "magazine" means in relation to Shadowrun in the main book of whichever edition you're using. Again, I don't have a book with me to give page references, though I'm thinking it will be somewhere around page 270 in SR3. I'm sure someone else here can provide the exact page number for you.

I think that would depend on the sport rifle in question. Many are going to use an internal, individually-loaded box magazines because they're A) simple, B) cheap, C) effective, and D) because it makes politicians happy. However, today, there are several semi-automatic hunting rifles that include detachable box magazines. Generally speaking, they represent a very small number of the types of rifles that are marketed for sport or hunting use.

True.

You can very easily chamber an extra round in a rifle with an internal box magazine as well. I've done it from time to time with my Remington 700. You simply load the magazine to capacity (through the action, one round at a time, as usual), then drop a round on top of those that have been loaded into the magazine, press the uppermost round in the magazine down a bit so that the bolt cannot feed it, then push the bolt forward, chambering the free round. In my rifle that would be 4+1 capacity.

True.

Interesting. Which rifles would those be?

There are plenty of rifles, particularly bolt-actions, with internal box magazines that have hinged floorplates (including mine) which allow the user to open the magazine from the bottom in order to unload it quickly. However I don't recall having seen one that can also use a detachable magazine without considerable modification.

I agree with almost all of your points (and most of them didn't really disagree with mine, so much as point out that M and C are way simpler than reality, but work for the game), except I the tubular magazine thing still bugs me. There just aren't may high power rifles made like that anymore (a shame sortof, since I like the look and the lever action that often comes hand in hand is a lot of fun), so I don't think that they are likely what is being suggested in the SR books.
Regarding the internal non-detachable magazines, Browning especially, but many others have been designing them for years to come out the bottom and also be accessible through the top. It just makes far more sense. (They don't simply drop out the bottom though like clips, they swing out one a 'flap', and then unclip.)

Anyways, I'm sure we could go back and forth forever listing different guns that do different things and we'd both be right and could prove a lot of different points, but my main one is that this is the future, Shadowrunners want quick and efficient, and there's no reason to not have this option..... We also got way off track. Guns can almost always hold the book listed capacity +1. (excluding break action and cylinder obviously )

I think the tubular magazine is one of a few types of internal magazines they refer to on SR3.280. Tubular magazines may not be terribly common magazine types anymore, but there certainly are plenty of "sport rifles" made today that use them and in terms of Shadowrun, those rifles could quite correctly use the rules for magazines (m).

In the case of the Remington 950, which was the rifle in question originally, it is described as a bolt action rifle (SA mode notwithstanding), and it uses a magazine (m). Because bolt actions have historically utilized spitzer-shaped bullets (bad news in a tubular magazine), the 950 logically would use a box magazine, like pretty much every Remington bolt action rifle ever made. Remington currently makes bolt action rifles with three different kinds of magazines: a "blind" box magazine that can only be accessed through the action (or by disassembling the rifle), a hinged floorplate box magazine (as mentioned in my last post), and a detachable box magazine ("clip"). To take the rules as literally as possible, the 950 would use a blind box magazine.

That said, a rifle with that kind of magazine may not be the most logical choice for a shadowrunner, depending on the circumstances. But then, a sport rifle isn't likely be any shadowrunner's first choice anyway. (Though I think it would certainly be reasonable to allow any of the above magazine types as a house rule.)

True, Browning does make a kind of "semi-detachable" box magazine. Though I would say that the sense of it is questionable compared to other magazine types.

I agree. But they also have the option not to choose a sport rifle.

What I don't agree with are the assertions that internal non-detachable magazines are "almost non-existent", are "not really practical" and are "costly to repair if necessary". They're still very prevalent, very practical and inexpensive, on sport rifles.