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jacklind
Hi

I thinking about making at character that either is or once were working as a wage mage in a Corp of some sort. But what could a mage work with or as in a Corp? Of course there security, but besides that, what use could a mage be in a Corp????

Hope you can help. biggrin.gif
Trax
Mage doctor perhaps.
FrankTrollman
Warding areas.
Astrally Perceiving Clients/Coworkers/Visitors.
Alchemically Investigating Materials.
Making Ambergel (Ant Shamans only).
Using Movement on major transports (A container ship can make the run from Los Angeles to Hamburg in 41 days, or with the help of a Force 6 Spirit it can do it in a week).
Guarding volatile substances. No accidents means no insurance premiums.
Greatform Spirits can create water, change the weather, and in a number of other ways completely transform agriculture (initiates only).
Greatform Fire Elementals can share Immunity to Fire with allies, allowing humans to work in absurdly dangeorus conditions (initiates only).

A number of spells have industrial applications:

Catalogue is an invaluable double-check on the RFIDs that dominate inventory systems.

Health spells can improve worker productivity.

Control Manipulations and Phantasms can make Simsense Recordings awesome.

Barrier Spells can be created inside a vaccuum, which allows you to sculpt Dikote-style crystal constructs into any shape you want.

Invisibility can make an object transparent to light generated by objects with low object resistance, but still stop light generated by objects with high object resistance - can you say "Laser Etching?"

Move Earth can allow a solid object to be opened up, and then put back exactly how it was.

-Frank
RunnerPaul
The Analyze Device spell can be handy in the R&D department

Clarvoyance and Telekinesis/Magic Fingers could be handy for remote operation of equipment in hazardous environments, though it's probably a waste of resources to send a mage to do a rigger's drone's job on a regular basis. However, for emergency response, it's hard to compete with a mage's response time. Plus there's the fact that you're not risking the loss of an expensive drone.

And of course, why give whatever counts as Shadowrun's Era's version of a powerpoint presentation to the board of directors, when you can have the wagemage do it all with an entertainment illusion. (Ok, this last one is just silly.)
Grinder
QUOTE (RunnerPaul)
Plus there's the fact that you're not risking the loss of an expensive drone.

I don't think a trained mage is cheaper than a drone.
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (Grinder @ Nov 26 2005, 05:10 PM)
QUOTE (RunnerPaul @ Nov 26 2005, 11:09 PM)
Plus there's the fact that you're not risking the loss of an expensive drone.

I don't think a trained mage is cheaper than a drone.

If the processing line blows up, and the drone that was responding to the emergency is caught up in it is lost, you're down the cost of a drone.

If the processing line blows up, but the mage that was responding to the emergecny by using clairvoyance and magic fingers from his corner office in the Control Room Administration Building next to the processing line, what cost have you lost?

Now, keeping a facility staffed full time with mages sitting around waiting for emergencies that they can use spells to fix is more expensive than the cost of a drone you may lose in an emergency response scenerio that may very well never happen, but if the mage is already on the payroll for other duties that keep them occupied most of the time, emergency response duties can just be tacked on as a bouns. When the actual emergency happens, the amount of time that the mage is diverted from their normal duties is the only thing you lose, cost-wise.
jacklind
Excellent! You obviously have more imagination then I do when I comes to putting Mages to work smile.gif

Thanks a lot for all your replies smile.gif
Drinnik
Doesn't Sam mention in the Secrets of Power Trilogy that he sees alot of mages "asleep" and later realises that Wage Mages spend alot of their time in the Astral?
Glyph
Note that clairvoyance can't be used in conjunction with magic fingers if it is used to see something out of a mage's line of sight (it can be used to get a "close up" view, however).

Beyond security and the utilitarian usefulness of many spells and spirits, remember that magical research is a major thing for the megacorporations. Magical theorists and spell designers are probably as sought after and jealously guarded as any other type of researcher.
RunnerPaul
Substitute Astral Projection and directing an elemental to materialize and manipulate the component in question then. Or if the facility in question already has magesight fiberoptics installed for security purposes, they can also be used to provide LOS for your magic fingers spell.
Deamon_Knight
Seems odd that any wage mage would spend much time on astral patrol when you loose Magic/Essence and it takes time to recover, a few hours on patrol and you mage is weak as a kitten. Just summon an elemental!
SL James
That's why it only makes sense when there are enough mages to work in teams so that the corp can stick one mage up to a bed and IV drip like Lone Star's astral patrol cops.
Grinder
QUOTE (Deamon_Knight)
Seems odd that any wage mage would spend much time on astral patrol when you loose Magic/Essence and it takes time to recover, a few hours on patrol and you mage is weak as a kitten. Just summon an elemental!

Let your mages work in shifts. A facility worth a patrolling mage is probably woth three or four who share the patrolling. Every 6 hours a new one could start a new patrol while the rest either recovers (temporarlly) lost magic or has free shift.

Or summon a powerful elemental. smile.gif
The Stainless Steel Rat
Nobody has yet mentioned Thought Police.

Analyze Truth: "Have you ever stolen from this company, or divulged any company secrets? Do you have any knowledge of any employees who have done either?"

Alter Memory: "Now that the project is concluded, we have determined that all records are to be sealed except by need-to-know basis. That includes your personal memory files."

Not to mention Mind-Probe/Memory wipe on captured employees/agents from rival corps.

And how great would Divination be for an investing firm? Or an R&D department?



PlatonicPimp
Lets not forget that mages can be perfectly capable at mundane tasks as well.

"Thank you, Mr. abracadra. Now that you've toasted the shadowrunners, you may be back to sweeping hall b-14."
Demon_Bob
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp)
"Thank you, Mr. abracadra. Now that you've toasted the shadowrunners, you may be back to sweeping hall b-14."

Mr Abracadra pulls out Union Card, "Sorry Union rules say that I an not to be used for janitorial services."
PlatonicPimp
My point is that they can be used for data entry, running copies, or most likely, managerial duties when not Mageing it up.
Prospero
I had an NPC wagemage in one of my campaigns that was a buddy of one of the PCs. When I had to detail what he did (he was pretty low on the corp totem pole for a mage), I usually had him (besides the usual stints on actual security patrols) summoning elementals and binding them to locations for guard duty (one summoning and binding could easily take an entire shift), patrolling in the astral, going to meetings with other company mages to coordinate magical security issues, writing up reports about stuff in his area, casting spells into spell-locks for higher-ups who had them. I think once, as fluff, I even tossed out that he had been astrally patrolling company sports events to prevent magical cheating.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (Demon_Bob)
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp @ Nov 28 2005, 01:12 PM)
"Thank you, Mr. abracadra. Now that you've toasted the shadowrunners, you may be back to sweeping hall b-14."

Mr Abracadra pulls out Union Card, "Sorry Union rules say that I an not to be used for janitorial services."

Unions? What kind of dystopian corp-dominated society are you running anyway? Remember corps are extranational and run by dragons now; anyone caught holding a union card is subject to being Lofwyr's next meal. The great thing is, it's all legal and above-board now, since corps make their own laws.
Edward
Mages are portrayed as being rare and in demand, if this is the case then they would not be wasted on sweeping Flores. I suspect a lot of what a security mage dose is writing reports and sitting around, just like any security person today, with the occasional trip to set wards. Research mages are probably divided between an alchemistís laboratory and a computer terminal just as are most research scientists today (only with more meta plainer quests). some wage mages make there living setting wards and very little else. Mages that work in medicine probably have working conditions very close to doctors,

And there are unions in shadow run. Or at least employ councils that provide feedback to management and are genuinely listened to, on issues that donít cost much but look good, after all a workforce that thinks you care is a happy workforce and a happy workforce is a productive workforce. And the psychotropic drugs tend to lead to public backlash when discovered.

Edward
Sicarius
I would think there would almost certainly be unions. Heavily corrupt and purchased with Corporate cred. Would make it easier to control the workers, if the people who are "on their side" are upholding the system. Although I imagine some corps might be sticklers for the old fashioned ways. (I wonder what a group of Azzie Strike breakers would look like?)
Oracle
Aztechnology's workers really love their work for the most popular corporation in the world. Aztechnology uses its influence to create a better future for all mankind. No other corporation invests such vast ammounts of money in enviromental protection and health care programs. No other corporation is so strongly dedicated to the high quality of its affordable products.
hyzmarca
Actually, collective bargaining would benefit corps more than it would benefit workers.
Without a union a corporation would have to negoiate terms of employment with every employee individually. This would consume quite a bit of resources. With unions, a corporation can negoiate one lowest common denominator that everone is willing to take. Generally, during such negoiations the megacorp can offer benefits that seem great to the workers but cost the corporation next to nothing, making it seem to the workers that they accomplished something when in reality they did not.


Sicarius
QUOTE (Oracle)
Aztechnology's workers really love their work for the most popular corporation in the world. Aztechnology uses its influence to create a better future for all mankind. No other corporation invests such vast ammounts of money in enviromental protection and health care programs. No other corporation is so strongly dedicated to the high quality of its affordable products.

Oracle, I have a bridge for sale if you're interested.

biggrin.gif
Oracle
What I wanted to say is the following: Aztechnology's public face is completely different from the image it has got in parts of the shadows. The Azzies have the best PR department in the corporate world. That's why the big 'A' survived all those blood magic and horror scandals absolutely unharmed. There will simply be no strikes, because Aztechnology's employees work for the best employer in the world.

And that deal with the bridge sounds interesting:
[ Spoiler ]
nick012000
Yes, I'm wondering how that happened. On at least one occasion, the Azzies were literally massacring innocents in the streets to power a blood magic ritual in an attempt to bring about a mana spike big enough to open the floodgates to the Horrors (in the novel Beyond the Pale). Granted, when the Dragon Heart was used to destroy the dragonheart, the result was a massive explosion that probably killed everyone presesnt, but I'm suprised that Ryan Mercury, the rest of Assets, Inc., Harlequin, or Aina didn't go and start a few rumors about the subject.
Sicarius
I know what you were saying Oracle. I agree with you. I was just amused.

[ Spoiler ]

ShadowDragon8685
And the whole "Gassing millions in the Yucatan and using Toxics" thing went unnoticed, how?

Why hasen't anybody gotten footage of what the Azzies have been doing, and widebanded it to every non-Azzie newsfeed in the world? Especially newsfeeds controlled by Ghostwalker and other people who'd like to rake Aztechnology and Aztlan over the coals a few times. And by the coals, I mean the radioactive "Melt your skin for being ten meters away" coals.
Critias
The same way the rebellion that's been going on for years inside the Tir goes unnoticed (until SoNA), the same way so many atrocities in real life, today, go unnoticed for years -- those who control the media, control the truth.

Azzies invest a lot of money in controlling the media.
Oracle
The Yucatan rebels themselves resorted to attack the Aztechnology peace keeping force with chemical weapons. They simply left the Azzie commanders no other choice as to attack the WMD storage facilities. The massive civil losses have been caused because the rebel commanders employed some sort of scorched earth agenda. Aztechnology immediately dispatched medical teams to the area, but unfortunately the recent spirit activities caused by toxic Yucatan shamans stopped them from doing their work.

Even the connection between Aztechnology and Aztlan isn't official and obvious for the public, by the way.
ShadowDragon8685
And when the footage of the azzie "Big Breath" troopers in full gas gear and wielding belching gas-blowers (As in the YotC image,) gets shown everywhere on the ten o' clock news?

There's only so much spin you can put on something before it centrifically breaks free of your control, usually coming crashing straight down into your head.
Oracle
It will not be shown on the ten o'clock news. That is the spin. It will possibly be shown by a hand full of anarchistic pirate stations. And of course by propaganda networks associated with the toxic shaman government of yucatan. Besides that: Everyone could fix up a fake Jaguar Guard uniform. That proves nothing. Not in the year 2064(?).
ShadowDragon8685
Just how stupid is the average person in 206X?

.... On second thought, don't answer that.

But the azzies can't spin everybody. They can't have their fingers in every pie. Especially the pies that are firmly dedicated to snubbing them at every turn. I'm sure Ghostwalker, say, could get anything he wanted aired, and Azzie objections just keep rolling off his scales, as per usual. And it's certainly in his best interests to do so. "Look at what those crazy Azzies are doing down south. Good thing I kicked 'em out of Denver before they decided to do that here, too."
Oracle
Ghostwalker commited massive acts of terrorism against the rightful property of the people of Aztlan. Who would believe him? He is possibly the leading figure behind the already mentioned toxic shaman government of Yucatan. No, serious: Even he can't afford to go into open war with the second largest megacorp in the world. They are simply one level above him. He is not Lofwyr and has no Saeder Krupp to back him up.

Just look at how the US government manages to cover and spindoctor nearly everything that happens in the war in Iraq. (In fact they tell us there is no war anymore. Just some insurgents.) And Aztechnology and Aztlan are much more proficient in that. I am pretty sure that even ten o' clock news coverage could not bring them to their knees. Aztech has a very very good public image. The don't do bad things. Big 'A' influences the public every single day to believe that drek. It is so much more convenient compared to the truth.
nick012000
QUOTE (Oracle)
Just look at how the US government manages to cover and spindoctor nearly everything that happens in the war in Iraq. (In fact they tell us there is no war anymore. Just some insurgents.)

http://www.logictimes.com/dissent.htm

Now that the politics are over with, let's get back to the thread, eh?
Fuchs
IMC, mages are usually in security/control functions (facilities, casinos, bodyguards etc.), medicine or research posts. A few work in education, in arcane faculties and their equivalents.
A few oddballs are in the entertainment industry, for special effects and such, or as consultants, and in other fields, like archeology, high-risk transport, Detox, trying to find new economical applications for magic.
FrankTrollman
Remember, every corporation does things that the runners are going to think is evil. But the US tortures people to death in the sandbox, and operates the "School of the Americas" where people are trained to torture people to death. And people still make web posts about how even saying that you don't agree with actions is immoral.

nick012000 offers a blindingly clear glimpse at exactly how and why Aztlan can use poison gas on the Mayans, and Ares can hire insect shamans, and Proteus can conduct destructive testing on humans. The megacorporations are peoples' lives. If they do something that doesn't sit right with you, they must have a reason. These times are hard for everyone, and they do what must be done.

When the United States attaches car batteries to peoples' genitalia, it has a reason. People supporting social and economic systems that are not advantageous to US corporations are bad, and the US government is doing what it must to protect its people and interests. Failing to give 100% support to the government in these dark times is not illegal, it's immoral. If you don't stand behind the School of the Americas, you are a bad person, and I'm ashamed to know you.

Now, scale that up 65 years until the nation of Aztlan is owned by Aztechnology. Much better spin doctoring than the US where merely most politicians are in some way dependent upon support from FOX.

-Frank
tisoz
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Remember, <snip>

Now, scale that up 65 years until the nation of Aztlan is owned by Aztechnology. Much better spin doctoring than the US where merely most politicians are in some way dependent upon support from FOX.

-Frank

eek.gif WtF does this have to do with duties and job descriptions of Wage Mages? eek.gif

No, nevermind, I do not even want to hear a possible tie.
mfb
how many Aztechnology products do you think actually say "Aztechnology" on them? some, sure, especially the expensive stuff that is only bought by other corps, who really can't be bothered with little things like morals. but most things aren't going to have the Aztechnology logo on them. it explains this in one of the corp books--i think it even says that Aztechnology owns the Stuffer Shack franchise. the Aztechnology logo isn't being thrown in Joe Average's face, so Joe Average doesn't care.
Edward
There are probably no Aztec logos on the battle dress of there questionable troops, any footage will show them as a mercenary company, and there probably shooting at cameras.

I understood that the Aztec brand line was big. And stuffer shack caries it, it also caries other brand lines made buy aztechnology as dose the branded aztech shopping mall.

The average Joe dose not know of most of the allegations against aztechnology and dose not believe those he dose know about.

Every corp has a public face and a face they hide, usually owned threw shell companies, and donít think the azies wont tred hard and publicly on those shell companies if there activities become known.

Wage mages are also sometimes working as head shrinkers (both literal and metaphorically)

Edward
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE
There are probably no Aztec logos on the battle dress of there questionable troops, any footage will show them as a mercenary company, and there probably shooting at cameras.
blakkie
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
QUOTE
There are probably no Aztec logos on the battle dress of there questionable troops, any footage will show them as a mercenary company, and there probably shooting at cameras.

What? Those aren't questionable troops. Those are Jaguar freedom fighters attempting to liberate a once beautiful grove of old-growth trees from some evil villians who are obviously bent on destroying the earth and all life! cyber.gif
FrankTrollman
Notice how they wisely avoid using metal bullets that might permanently damage the environment, cleaving instead to environmentally conscious chemical and biologic agents that become inert after a short period of time!

---

But regardless, a Wage Mage of sufficient power can make a big name for himself in:

Transportation. A powerful magician can cut 34 days off the travel time of a container ship. What does that mean? That means that the container ship, which carries 4,500 teus of cargo gets there 34 days early. And each of those teus is worth nearly 2 thousand nuyen each quarter normally. So instead of making 2 trips each quarter, you're making 10 or more, and that means that your magician is - by himself - generating tens of millions of nuyen a year. But only a powerful mage can pull that off, a lesser magician would have to content herself sending spirits to use movement on planes.

I honestly don't know why anyone would ever make a suborbital when a 747 backed up by a force 5 spirit on remote service can make the run from SeaTac to Dulles in less than an hour. It takes longer to drive to the airport and find a parking spot than it does to cross the continent.

Research. Detection spells, alchemical identification, the whole thing. It's good times all around.

Security. Patrolling spirits, watchers, wards, mind probes, astral senses, detection spells, this is going to be a growth industry forever. Note that a lot of these tasks can (and will) be performed by weak magicians with a Magic rating of 1 or 2.

Medicine. Health Spells basically scream this application.

Entertainment. Not just phantasms, a magician with Mob Mood can literally force everyone in the room to be happy.

Material Synthesis. Low force magic only works on unprocessed things. Which means that you can actually use magical levitation as a filter to push low-yield synthesis processes to completion. Ares has doubtless put Ambergel back on the market now that they are making it in-house.

Human Resources. If the other activities simply weren't evil enough, why not simply scan applicants to see what skills they actually have?

-Frank
TheHappyAnarchist
QUOTE (nick012000)
QUOTE (Oracle @ Nov 30 2005, 08:38 AM)
Just look at how the US government manages to cover and spindoctor nearly everything that happens in the war in Iraq. (In fact they tell us there is no war anymore. Just some insurgents.)

http://www.logictimes.com/dissent.htm

Now that the politics are over with, let's get back to the thread, eh?

Okay, I see your citing of a website with obvious bias that states that the US is the best country in the world at avoiding collateral damage and raise you BBC News, a respected independant news source that is from a country allied with us.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4442156.stm

In other words, yes it is easy for Azzies to spin things, just like it is easy to spin things now.

How many people were aware that we were burning people alive?
Glyph
The white phosphorus has been mentioned in the U.S. media, as well.

To guide this back to SR, I think that, in a nutshell, is why the megacorporations can get away with a lot. I don't find suppression of information (such as in the original Universal Brotherhood storyline) to be that realistic. Rather, I think the problem is that there is an information explosion in the Shadowrun world. Take today with cell phones that can take videos and free websites for bloggers, then multiply it exponentially.

It's not that the information about Aztechnology atrocities isn't out there; it's that it's out there mixed in with Aztechnology propoganda, propoganda from Aztechnology's many enemies, scam artists, conspiracy theorists, and millions of people logging onto the Matrix to post their opinions about it. So what's a cynical, jaded, apathetic wage slave who struggles merely to get by going to do? They will probably dismiss a lot of the far-out stuff as rubbish, including the far-out stuff that happens to be true. They will probably have a "What could I do about it, even if it was true?" attitude. So the truth is out there, but only shadowrunners and a few others will really be that aware of it. For everyone else, it gets lost in the rest of the noise.
Deamon_Knight
And Remember, most of these things are important to people who will be affected by them. Shadowrunners may care if they are caught and used as an Azzie Blood sacrifice, But few UCAS citizens care as long as Aztechnology keeps to themselves and keeps the stuffer shacks stocked with cheap goodies. OTOH, Renraku's Arc problems threatened alot of UCAS citizens (A Mayor Included!), and was right on the UCAS doorstep, The Big A gets the NIMBY Pass.
nick012000
QUOTE (TheHappyAnarchist @ Dec 1 2005, 07:16 PM)
QUOTE (nick012000 @ Nov 30 2005, 08:42 AM)
QUOTE (Oracle @ Nov 30 2005, 08:38 AM)
Just look at how the US government manages to cover and spindoctor nearly everything that happens in the war in Iraq. (In fact they tell us there is no war anymore. Just some insurgents.)

http://www.logictimes.com/dissent.htm

Now that the politics are over with, let's get back to the thread, eh?

Okay, I see your citing of a website with obvious bias that states that the US is the best country in the world at avoiding collateral damage and raise you BBC News, a respected independant news source that is from a country allied with us.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4442156.stm

In other words, yes it is easy for Azzies to spin things, just like it is easy to spin things now.

How many people were aware that we were burning people alive?

Yes, some innocent civilians die in the war in Iraq. But even in a worst-case scenario, at least 20,000 (net) lives have been saved from Saddam's mass graves (and that is going up as we speak).

I'll also point out that similar weapons have been used thousands of years ago (Greek Fire, anyone?). Besides, I fail to see the difference between killing a terrorist by shooting them, blowing them up with bombs, or incinerating them with Willie Pete. Violent death suck generally.
Critias
Hey! I think I can almost see the topic from here! *points far off into the distance*
Fuchs
I think another important point is how valued are mages?

Given that only 1 to 3 (4?) % of the population is magically active, how sought-after are mages for corp work? How many positions for wage mages open up? It directly influences how a wage mage carries him or herslef, and how bribable they are.
Can they pick and choose their jobs, or are they like some academics with esoteric mayors who will have to be very lucky to find work in their field of choice after graduating?
TheHappyAnarchist
I will avoid all of the things I want to say that are way over there where we were discussing. Other than that the post is perfect evidence that Aztechnology can get away with what it wants to.

Anyway, to answer the above question, Mages are vital and always in demand. They are literally picking mages up off the street!!! Untrained gangers are being recruited, having their college payed for, and set to work.

There is simply not anywhere near the amount of supply needed to fill demand.

Most of the work I imagine falls into two categories. Research and Security. Mostly research into security. Magic can't be manufactured, so magical products are rare and valuable, but there is little of magical production going on. Especially as you would not want to spend all your karma on creating foci right?
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