Full Version: Setting
| QUOTE |
| Which is what happened on the day of Crash 2.0, wouldn't you say? |
Sure. I'll give you that. But California sunk in 2069, and the Crash 2.0 was in 2065. It seems like those events were proximal to each other because one happened just before the timeline jump and the other happened just before jumping back into active time, but they were actually farther apart than the YotC probe race and the Yametetsu landing on Mars.
-Frank
... Oh.
Damn you and your logic! Foiled.... *facepalm*
Yeah, that is a bit far off to be residual aftershocks.
Damn you and your logic! Foiled.... *facepalm*
Yeah, that is a bit far off to be residual aftershocks.
So, it sounds like SF is just a book that transitions SR3 to SR4, so if I plan on staying with SR3, is there ANY reason to get SF?
o.O
Well, on the most bare of stats, it gives rules for 2 of the nastiest toxins in the game in SR3 form...
But yeah. As someone who likes both SR3 and 4, I think SF is a nice volume to have. Someone'll homebrew Wireless rules for SR3 (if they haven't yet), and the combining of hermetic and shamantic magics started in SOTA: 2064, so it really isn't a very jarring transition... So it would help, contextually, to seed your SR3 games.
Well, on the most bare of stats, it gives rules for 2 of the nastiest toxins in the game in SR3 form...
But yeah. As someone who likes both SR3 and 4, I think SF is a nice volume to have. Someone'll homebrew Wireless rules for SR3 (if they haven't yet), and the combining of hermetic and shamantic magics started in SOTA: 2064, so it really isn't a very jarring transition... So it would help, contextually, to seed your SR3 games.
Well, assuming you stay in SR3, you have 5 years before it's the SR timeline anyway. ( That is, if time doesn't stand still through some miracle of metamagic/gamemaster Fiat). Despite setting up the changes in SR4, System failure is an entirely 3rd edition book. The plot hooks and develpments that happen there will effect the SR world whatever edition you play. Heck, I advise doing it that way even if you pick up SR4. There are a hell of a lot of interesting plots after the second crash, that are sort of glossed over by skipping 5 years. 5 of hte most chaotic years since the first matrix crash. Some Heavy level shit will be going down in those 5 years, especially what with all teh corps competing to set up the wireless matrix grids. Too much fun to be had in 65, to just skip it.
The crash was in 2064, not '65.
I should clarify my position. The Ghost Dance only caused a handful of dormant volcanoes to erupt. The earthquake moved billions of tons of earth into the œther. It would make the GGD pale in comparison.
The tectonic nukes is its own brand of bullshit. I hate SF. It is a special type of nonsense to have this earthshaking, edition-ending, five year leaping book be 33 pages shorter than a book on organizations in the sixth world. It is poorly written, and horribly edited, if it was edited at all towards the end. Too much is spent on the buildup to the Crash; the Crash fails to address in anything but the most base plot hooks what would happen as a result (e.g., Seattle running out of food by the 12th); and it is an insult to the intelligence of educated people to read the about what happens after the Crash. As you all know by know, to me the most insulting piece of trite crap is the section on the coup, which is illogical, poorly written, and lacks any apparent understanding of historical or political context in North American history and politics. I would be shocked if Jong could even tell me what Jefferson was discussing in that quote. I'll give you a hint; it didn't involve a military coup and the multiple assassinations of chiefs of state.
It is like SR4: Proof of what happens when you push something out the door before it's done, and I am only using it in its most base form if at all.
I should clarify my position. The Ghost Dance only caused a handful of dormant volcanoes to erupt. The earthquake moved billions of tons of earth into the œther. It would make the GGD pale in comparison.
The tectonic nukes is its own brand of bullshit. I hate SF. It is a special type of nonsense to have this earthshaking, edition-ending, five year leaping book be 33 pages shorter than a book on organizations in the sixth world. It is poorly written, and horribly edited, if it was edited at all towards the end. Too much is spent on the buildup to the Crash; the Crash fails to address in anything but the most base plot hooks what would happen as a result (e.g., Seattle running out of food by the 12th); and it is an insult to the intelligence of educated people to read the about what happens after the Crash. As you all know by know, to me the most insulting piece of trite crap is the section on the coup, which is illogical, poorly written, and lacks any apparent understanding of historical or political context in North American history and politics. I would be shocked if Jong could even tell me what Jefferson was discussing in that quote. I'll give you a hint; it didn't involve a military coup and the multiple assassinations of chiefs of state.
It is like SR4: Proof of what happens when you push something out the door before it's done, and I am only using it in its most base form if at all.
I sense much venom in your words, eh?
First, just because the Matrix "crashed," does not mean it was offline for any significant time period. The way it was written, the eggs seemed to be what kept the worm going... and the worms had a limited area of effect, cascading or no. No doubt a city like Seattle would've had all its eggs removed quickly, its most vital matrix lines reestablished soon after, and then the switch would be made to the Wireless setup to A) prevent such an attack and B) because it was easier than cleaning up the fragged up code spread over the RTG's. Plus, it would create the illusion of being secured from the Matrix, to keep such an incident from frying you -- After all, AR is just like running Cold Sim, or even Tortoise!
Yes, the tectonic nukes, on the surface, should not be able to move the plates. Tell any Sci-fi writer in the last half-century that, however, and they'll still use it as a plot device. At least in Shadowrun's defense, they explained that the EMP nukes were heavily altered by magic, and that the tectonic nukes were supposed to be as well... something stopped them.
You're also right that System Failure devotes the majority of it to leading up to the crash, and not to the reprocussions. I'd like to take this time to point you to Brainscan, and the Blackout of Seattle. Despite how many volumes could've been written on that incident, it wasn't the focus. The focus of System Failure was on The Singularity, and how Winternight screwed over Pax.
After that... it's your ballgame.
Part of my appeal in the Mechwarrior: Dark Age plot was seeing what happened in the jump of 60 years the game took. Finding out what happened, all that. This is the same premise happening in SR4 -- The biggest events are there... but for those of us living on the street, the intricies still need to be unearthed... And the shadow community is as much in the dark as we are.
I don't hold that against System Failure, or the current writers. Indeed, I savor the opportunity of seeing the aftermath, and deciphering the cause. It's an entertaining game, if pulled off right, and I'm not about to force it.
And you are right.. the coup part was a bit weak for as big as it should've been. We saw.. what, 30 seconds? More will come out on that, I assure you.
First, just because the Matrix "crashed," does not mean it was offline for any significant time period. The way it was written, the eggs seemed to be what kept the worm going... and the worms had a limited area of effect, cascading or no. No doubt a city like Seattle would've had all its eggs removed quickly, its most vital matrix lines reestablished soon after, and then the switch would be made to the Wireless setup to A) prevent such an attack and B) because it was easier than cleaning up the fragged up code spread over the RTG's. Plus, it would create the illusion of being secured from the Matrix, to keep such an incident from frying you -- After all, AR is just like running Cold Sim, or even Tortoise!
Yes, the tectonic nukes, on the surface, should not be able to move the plates. Tell any Sci-fi writer in the last half-century that, however, and they'll still use it as a plot device. At least in Shadowrun's defense, they explained that the EMP nukes were heavily altered by magic, and that the tectonic nukes were supposed to be as well... something stopped them.
You're also right that System Failure devotes the majority of it to leading up to the crash, and not to the reprocussions. I'd like to take this time to point you to Brainscan, and the Blackout of Seattle. Despite how many volumes could've been written on that incident, it wasn't the focus. The focus of System Failure was on The Singularity, and how Winternight screwed over Pax.
After that... it's your ballgame.
Part of my appeal in the Mechwarrior: Dark Age plot was seeing what happened in the jump of 60 years the game took. Finding out what happened, all that. This is the same premise happening in SR4 -- The biggest events are there... but for those of us living on the street, the intricies still need to be unearthed... And the shadow community is as much in the dark as we are.
I don't hold that against System Failure, or the current writers. Indeed, I savor the opportunity of seeing the aftermath, and deciphering the cause. It's an entertaining game, if pulled off right, and I'm not about to force it.
And you are right.. the coup part was a bit weak for as big as it should've been. We saw.. what, 30 seconds? More will come out on that, I assure you.
I couldn't care less anymore what is officially written about the coup. It is SO irreparably FUBAR that I am not bothering to wait to see how it's filled-out, spun, retconned or whatever the f is done to it.
But, venom? Nah... I've only said I hated it over the last three months. If a friend hadn't bought it for me, I'd demand my money back. But she likes it, and I don't, so it's not really up to me.
But, venom? Nah... I've only said I hated it over the last three months. If a friend hadn't bought it for me, I'd demand my money back. But she likes it, and I don't, so it's not really up to me.
| QUOTE (Athenor) |
| First, just because the Matrix "crashed," does not mean it was offline for any significant time period. The way it was written, the eggs seemed to be what kept the worm going... and the worms had a limited area of effect, cascading or no. No doubt a city like Seattle would've had all its eggs removed quickly, its most vital matrix lines reestablished soon after, and then the switch would be made to the Wireless setup to A) prevent such an attack and B) because it was easier than cleaning up the fragged up code spread over the RTG's. Plus, it would create the illusion of being secured from the Matrix, to keep such an incident from frying you -- After all, AR is just like running Cold Sim, or even Tortoise! |
I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and guess that neither you nor anyone writing for the SR line knows the first thing about computers and networks. That... That's just ignorant.
I do know a decent amount about computers and networking, although not so much about high-end servers, which I'm in the process of learning about.
SR's never been hard on how the reality of code works.. It doesn't have to be, as the stuff they talk about has quite a bit of fiction and fantasy woven into it. As I said earlier, my personal belief is that a good chunk of The Matrix is influenced by magic --- too many minds in there, and the whole nature of the resonance/dissonance war sounded like that magic trying to break through of the rigidity it was birthed under.
The evidence is there that the crash did not bring everythign to a screeching halt for 5 years, or even a month. News reports of the immediate post-singularity were being desiminated. Hell, the information on the coup itself was supposed to have happened the day after the Singularity, and someone managed to watch that!
The EMP's (which did the crashing, remember, Jorgumand was designed to make the Matrix Pax's personal playground) was designed to fry power suppolies and such, not the actual hardware. Replacing those wouldn't be terribly easy (about the same as recovering power to a city after a natural disaster), but given the proper motivation, it could be done quickly. Then the wireless stuff was put in relatively painlessly as it was easier than trying to fix up the old systems from the lingering effects of Jorgumand tearing up the code (and yes, I know you can't just randomly mess with a program's code in real life.. but this is SR, and code holds more weight and importance as almost being like a living thing.. See Morgan/Magera...)..
As I said. System shock is written from the perspective of someone in 2065, trying to figure out what the heck's going on through the spottiness of the matrix. Given how vital the Matrix was to SR life, it would have been brought back into power relatively quickly -- And companies who were on the forefront to bring it back online would rule the day. The hard lines, the remnants of the old Matrix would not just dissapear -- they would probably just be used for power transmission, city utilities, highly valuable info for PLTG's... But the WMI would have provided an immediate way to get people their "fix," without having to fix up the old hardlines.. And at the same time get business and wage slave "faith" in the corporations back under their control.
SR's never been hard on how the reality of code works.. It doesn't have to be, as the stuff they talk about has quite a bit of fiction and fantasy woven into it. As I said earlier, my personal belief is that a good chunk of The Matrix is influenced by magic --- too many minds in there, and the whole nature of the resonance/dissonance war sounded like that magic trying to break through of the rigidity it was birthed under.
The evidence is there that the crash did not bring everythign to a screeching halt for 5 years, or even a month. News reports of the immediate post-singularity were being desiminated. Hell, the information on the coup itself was supposed to have happened the day after the Singularity, and someone managed to watch that!
The EMP's (which did the crashing, remember, Jorgumand was designed to make the Matrix Pax's personal playground) was designed to fry power suppolies and such, not the actual hardware. Replacing those wouldn't be terribly easy (about the same as recovering power to a city after a natural disaster), but given the proper motivation, it could be done quickly. Then the wireless stuff was put in relatively painlessly as it was easier than trying to fix up the old systems from the lingering effects of Jorgumand tearing up the code (and yes, I know you can't just randomly mess with a program's code in real life.. but this is SR, and code holds more weight and importance as almost being like a living thing.. See Morgan/Magera...)..
As I said. System shock is written from the perspective of someone in 2065, trying to figure out what the heck's going on through the spottiness of the matrix. Given how vital the Matrix was to SR life, it would have been brought back into power relatively quickly -- And companies who were on the forefront to bring it back online would rule the day. The hard lines, the remnants of the old Matrix would not just dissapear -- they would probably just be used for power transmission, city utilities, highly valuable info for PLTG's... But the WMI would have provided an immediate way to get people their "fix," without having to fix up the old hardlines.. And at the same time get business and wage slave "faith" in the corporations back under their control.
For the record the Crash was not universal nor did it damage different grids to the same degree. Some grids were devastated (San Fran, Boston, Singapore) and hit by both Jormungand and the EMP strikes. Others got off lightly (because Jormungand was drawn to high-connectivity areas) and systems were returned to normal functioning within hours. Most fell somewhere in between catastrophic system failure and serious damage. The final eggs several months to track down and eliminate and were one of the reasons (conveniently) cited for switching to a new Wireless grid system.
The true reason the WM was implemented rather than simply reconstructing the old grids (many of which remain interfaced with the WM network) is simply that its seen as a much more profitable venture for corporations (all those juicy infrastructure construction).
Despite SL James' opinion, and the editing flaws the book does indeed contain, feedback from fans and reviewers has been overwhelmingly positive. Sales results have also been exceptional and System Failure continues to top both online store's charts and distributor sales. Most people realize that System Failure intended to do exactly what it does - ie. culminate in the Singularity and Winternight's apocalypse. It wraps up several major storylines but also lightly sketches in the elements of the aftermath that we intend to play with later, while still leaving the door open for those who don't want to jump the 5 years to do as they please in the wake of the Crash 2.0.
And for anyone interested out there, one of the reason SF writers have and will continue to use the nuclear devices on faultlines schtick is because it is based on military and scientific studies - specifically a Cold War Russian failsafe against Chinese land invasion called "tectonic resonance triggers". The nuke is not meant to cause an earthquake, but when placed in an appropriate tectonic pressure point with certain geological characteristics and in an appropriately shaped cavity, the shockwave/vibration can set up a cascading resonance loop in the neighboring plates and amplify the natural tectonic stress to the point of a geological event... or you could just call it bullshit.
The true reason the WM was implemented rather than simply reconstructing the old grids (many of which remain interfaced with the WM network) is simply that its seen as a much more profitable venture for corporations (all those juicy infrastructure construction).
Despite SL James' opinion, and the editing flaws the book does indeed contain, feedback from fans and reviewers has been overwhelmingly positive. Sales results have also been exceptional and System Failure continues to top both online store's charts and distributor sales. Most people realize that System Failure intended to do exactly what it does - ie. culminate in the Singularity and Winternight's apocalypse. It wraps up several major storylines but also lightly sketches in the elements of the aftermath that we intend to play with later, while still leaving the door open for those who don't want to jump the 5 years to do as they please in the wake of the Crash 2.0.
And for anyone interested out there, one of the reason SF writers have and will continue to use the nuclear devices on faultlines schtick is because it is based on military and scientific studies - specifically a Cold War Russian failsafe against Chinese land invasion called "tectonic resonance triggers". The nuke is not meant to cause an earthquake, but when placed in an appropriate tectonic pressure point with certain geological characteristics and in an appropriately shaped cavity, the shockwave/vibration can set up a cascading resonance loop in the neighboring plates and amplify the natural tectonic stress to the point of a geological event... or you could just call it bullshit.
o.O
the Russians actually implemented such a doomsday weapon? Or was it just planned?
Where can we find more info on this? I'm... wow, I wanna see the math and such behind that. =)
the Russians actually implemented such a doomsday weapon? Or was it just planned?
Where can we find more info on this? I'm... wow, I wanna see the math and such behind that. =)
It was never implemented though references to test detonations and resulting quakes can be found in several publications from fringe stuff to serious academic material.
The most famous public references is an often-reproduced quote from the Moscow News in the mid-Nineties:
The most famous public references is an often-reproduced quote from the Moscow News in the mid-Nineties:
| QUOTE |
| "A former ranking officer of the KGB in Azerbeijan has disclosed that Moscow secretly conducted exotic weapons research into tectonic arms—weapons that can cause and control earthquakes. Lt. Col. Akif Gasanov claims: "The information I received seemed fantastic. Certain scientists at the Academy of Sciences were working on problems associated with earthquakes. . . .[They] asserted that they could control and initiate earthquakes. . . . Gasanov mentions a series of quakes in the late 1980s—occurring from India to Central Asia—were the result of tectonic weapons tests." |
The newspaper went on to say research of the so-called tectonic weapons began in the late 60s and recieved a major push in the 1970's, when the Soviet government ordered a major effort to develop such a weapon following the border tensions with China.
Or this from Pravda:
Or this from Pravda:
| QUOTE |
| Tectonic weapons. (...) Military departments of Russia and the USA strongly reject such a possibility at present. However, Professor E. Kerimov of the Earth Physics Institute believes that scheduled natural disasters are quite real. Yet, official departments reject the existence of all above-mentioned weapons. |
There are other interesting quotes from American officials too, including one from Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen, that's been reproduced ad nauseum by every conspiracy theorist on the web:
| QUOTE |
| "Others are engaging even in an eco type of terrorism, whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes or volcanos remotely, through the use of electromagnetic waves." |
Personally I'm fond of the fact that American lawmakers took this seriously enough to put something under the Space Preservation Act of 2001. Look under the Definitions of "exotic weapons systems" (B - vii), here (admittedly this one is space-based).
Put "tectonic arms" or "tectonic weapons" in Google and you'll find dozens of links to the flaky stuff.
Shift through it and you start finding the really wierd stuff such as formal scientific papers by contemporary Azerbeijani sismologists and physicists (in academic journals) referring to research done on seismic resonance and EMP effects on tectonic activity- research dating back prior to 1990 (when the USSR began allowing academic exchange) or the interesting stuff from the Russian (then-Soviet) Academy of Sciences released in the early Nineties about tectonic resonance and stimulation of seismic resonance such as Therotic Foundation of Dynamic (Resonance) Earthquake Model- Kasumov F. K., Asianov F. A. which quotes:
| QUOTE |
| Artificial subsurfase explosion(nuclear and large-scaleindustrial explosions), |
though it does go on to say these are soft resonance triggers and dependent on existing anthropogenic activities and geological strain - you know, the sort you find in fault lines.
Here's an admittedly flaky site that provides connections to a bunch of other interesting fringe and not-so-fringe sites: Tectonic weapons
All these people could be blowing smoke - but contrary to some people's opinions, at least it's well-researched bullshit.
When I get home I'll post a couple of book references too, one from a former KGB man on secret weapon research in Soviet Russia.
Here's an admittedly flaky site that provides connections to a bunch of other interesting fringe and not-so-fringe sites: Tectonic weapons
All these people could be blowing smoke - but contrary to some people's opinions, at least it's well-researched bullshit.
When I get home I'll post a couple of book references too, one from a former KGB man on secret weapon research in Soviet Russia.
With no due respect to Synner just because something is popular doesn't make it good. Moreover, the reason it pisses me off so much is partly based on the same reason that the Matrix has annoyed and frustrated some computer-saavy people: because coming from a learned perspective, it makes no sense.
See, the very theme and quote at issue and the actions surrounding (for example Tree, which is by far the weakest part of the whole book and does in fact drag the rest of it down) is, as someone who has done the reading and knows the context, appalls me. It's like quoting Ghandi to justify mass murder. It's just that stupid. And like I said, because it is so weak, and so bad, it does drag everything else around it down. All the aftershock stuff involving North America? Pthbbbt. Sorry, no dice. All that really managed to be done was to kill off and disappear a couple of NPCs. BFD.
I'd be shocked if the people who really like it have a clue about what really happened. Filling in holes is fine, filling in disjointed crap is annoying and pisses me off.
BTW, Jefferson was referring to Shays' Rebellion, in case you were wondering, and he was extolling the virtues of how a group of people acted in defense of their rights when the Massachusetts government was abusing its authority, and it was written in the hopes that maybe now the Constitution would be ratified (which would have prevented some of the abuses, such as sending people to debtors' jails) along with a bill of rights to create a government where the rights of the people were upheld at a point when the fate of the country was in serious question.
It wasn't "storm the capital and kill the leaders." Not that it would matter, the day before a national election in Washington is dead time. No one's around. That's just as stupid and ignorant as these know-nothing assholes who quote Shakespeare's "First, kill all the lawyers" without mentioning that the whole sentence is, "if tyranny is to prevail you must first kill all the layers" because they failed in their duty to the people. It's this half-assed, flippant process of writing a book which I have almost no doubt was done in a hurry because SR4 was already out in PDF and LE from Gencon. This super-campaign book was 33 pages shorter than Loose Alliances and yet was supposed to give an overview of these huge five years, which is clearly did not. Yeah, it was worth it. So is punching myself in the nuts.
So, I stand proudly in the minority because I know better.
See, the very theme and quote at issue and the actions surrounding (for example Tree, which is by far the weakest part of the whole book and does in fact drag the rest of it down) is, as someone who has done the reading and knows the context, appalls me. It's like quoting Ghandi to justify mass murder. It's just that stupid. And like I said, because it is so weak, and so bad, it does drag everything else around it down. All the aftershock stuff involving North America? Pthbbbt. Sorry, no dice. All that really managed to be done was to kill off and disappear a couple of NPCs. BFD.
I'd be shocked if the people who really like it have a clue about what really happened. Filling in holes is fine, filling in disjointed crap is annoying and pisses me off.
BTW, Jefferson was referring to Shays' Rebellion, in case you were wondering, and he was extolling the virtues of how a group of people acted in defense of their rights when the Massachusetts government was abusing its authority, and it was written in the hopes that maybe now the Constitution would be ratified (which would have prevented some of the abuses, such as sending people to debtors' jails) along with a bill of rights to create a government where the rights of the people were upheld at a point when the fate of the country was in serious question.
It wasn't "storm the capital and kill the leaders." Not that it would matter, the day before a national election in Washington is dead time. No one's around. That's just as stupid and ignorant as these know-nothing assholes who quote Shakespeare's "First, kill all the lawyers" without mentioning that the whole sentence is, "if tyranny is to prevail you must first kill all the layers" because they failed in their duty to the people. It's this half-assed, flippant process of writing a book which I have almost no doubt was done in a hurry because SR4 was already out in PDF and LE from Gencon. This super-campaign book was 33 pages shorter than Loose Alliances and yet was supposed to give an overview of these huge five years, which is clearly did not. Yeah, it was worth it. So is punching myself in the nuts.
So, I stand proudly in the minority because I know better.
| QUOTE (SL James @ Dec 21 2005, 01:24 AM) |
| With no due respect to Synner just because something is popular doesn't make it good. |
No worries, you learn to curtail your expectations when debating with some people.
I was referring to the fact that the book as a whole is proving popular. Most people have not let their disappointment with some of the book's flaws taint their outlook on the whole product. As far back as I can remember people have complained about one part or another of a given sourcebook for one reason or another, some more justified than others, there's no reason this book would be any different. Though you obviously have other gripes with the book, you're focusing on one small section of the aftermath (regardless of how important it is to your specific game) which loosely seeds political changes that manifest in SR4 and you're extending your dislike for that particular section to the whole book. Nobody's questioning your opinion, just stating that other people take a wider view and are looking at what they take away from the book as a whole.
| QUOTE |
| Moreover, the reason it pisses me off so much is partly based on the same reason that the Matrix has annoyed and frustrated some computer-saavy people: because coming from a learned perspective, it makes no sense. |
As usual I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to at this point in your tirade, but on the off-chance it's with regard to the "tectonic weapons" post, I'll just say that I tend to regard official publications from established academics as "learned" sources and leave it at that.
All that's needed for events to occur as described as System Failure describes is for Winternight to believe that nuclear resonance triggers work. As is, for whatever reason, it doesn't (maybe because it shouldn't, maybe because something stopped it) so I fail to see a problem. It's perfectly adjustable to whatever level of "realism" you think appropriate to your campaign - and whether you take existing and references to these weapons as serious or not.
| QUOTE |
| This super-campaign book was 33 pages shorter than Loose Alliances and yet was supposed to give an overview of these huge five years, which is clearly did not. |
Since I believe no such thing was ever announced by FanPro or the authors, I have no idea where you got that expectation. I'm sure you can provide a quote to that effect though.
The only thing that was announced officially during the build up to SR4 was that System Failure would lay the groundwork for the changes that occur during the 5 year jump and lay the seeds for future plots.
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| The only thing that was announced officially during the build up to SR4 was that System Failure would lay the groundwork for the changes that occur during the 5 year jump and lay the seeds for future plots. |
And that there will be a second book, Critical Error. Much like Brainscan and Renraku Arcology: Shutdown.
IIRC, that plan was publicly scrapped a long time before System Failure was released, so I think Synner's point stands.
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| Pretty much everything that happens after the Crash, especially the NR coup and President Colloton. It's like Oliver North running for President in 1988 and winning. |
Simply not true. Colloton is a national hero, thanks to the Arcology crisis and her publicly known role in the 2064 Coup. That she ran against a corrupt wimp didn't hurt either.
| QUOTE |
| As you all know by know, to me the most insulting piece of trite crap is the section on the coup, which is illogical, poorly written, and lacks any apparent understanding of historical or political context in North American history and politics. I would be shocked if Jong could even tell me what Jefferson was discussing in that quote. I'll give you a hint; it didn't involve a military coup and the multiple assassinations of chiefs of state. |
Right, I'm poor ignorant foreigner who couldn't possibly know anything about American politics or history. Verily, the American freelancers and editors involved in System Failure should be spanked for their ignorance too.
I'll give you a hint: Jefferson's original intent and context didn't matter at all to fascist demagogues conspiring to overthrow several governments. The use of someone's words for a different purpose is done everywhere. Hell, if we hadn't cremated him, Artigas would be spinning in his grave after everything that was done in his name by Marxist terrorists and right-wing military dictators.
I'm satisfied with Tree of Liberty, and I stand by it. Could Tree of Liberty have been written differently? Sure, we've discussed this before. I've received criticism and congratulations for that section, and I appreciate both of them. What I don't appreciate at all are personal attacks like yours.
| QUOTE (JongWK) |
| IIRC, that plan was publicly scrapped a long time before System Failure was released, so I think Synner's point stands. |
Point for you
| QUOTE (Grinder) | ||
Point for you |
Actually the original plan announced at GenCon the previous year was to do a double wammy with an event book followed by a campaign book. These were to be called Critical Error and System Crash. Nothing was actually said about their contents (especially since SR4 was a well-lept secret), except that it would be big. Most people assumed it would be the next/final chapter in the AI storylines.
When SR4 and the 2005 release schedule were announced at GAMA, the project had evolved to the single book that what would be System Failure and the first details of what it would involve began to be made public. More speculation followed but nothing specific came to light until the SR4 blog kicked off with the information on the Crash 2.0. By that time System Failure was written and in editing.
SL James: Although I don´t share your outrage, and didn´t know any of the historical stuff you bring up (being an ignorant foreigner), I did find your rants on this subject amusing. Almost of stand-up quality. Don´t get me wrong, I mean that in a possitive way. People being ass-holes and pointing out something stupid while making some points, is funny.
Too bad you´re so genuinly convinced of your own superiority and grandure. If you took yourself a bit less seriously, and gave your criticism tongue in cheek, I´d have given you applause if I agreed or not.
Having a humble streak is not foremost something moral or political correct, it´s just intelligent. Whatever you know can proove to be wrong, you know. If you look back at yourself 10 years back, and what you thought and said then—you propably think as little of that as you do of some of us dumpshockers and what we say. What does that tell you?
Too bad you´re so genuinly convinced of your own superiority and grandure. If you took yourself a bit less seriously, and gave your criticism tongue in cheek, I´d have given you applause if I agreed or not.
Having a humble streak is not foremost something moral or political correct, it´s just intelligent. Whatever you know can proove to be wrong, you know. If you look back at yourself 10 years back, and what you thought and said then—you propably think as little of that as you do of some of us dumpshockers and what we say. What does that tell you?
I just can't waite to find out what happened in the UnderWorld, what ever happened to that old Goat Akira Watada?
| QUOTE (Synner @ Dec 21 2005, 08:19 PM) | ||||
Actually the original plan announced at GenCon the previous year was to do a double wammy with an event book followed by a campaign book. These were to be called Critical Error and System Crash. Nothing was actually said about their contents (especially since SR4 was a well-lept secret), except that it would be big. Most people assumed it would be the next/final chapter in the AI storylines. When SR4 and the 2005 release schedule were announced at GAMA, the project had evolved to the single book that what would be System Failure and the first details of what it would involve began to be made public. More speculation followed but nothing specific came to light until the SR4 blog kicked off with the information on the Crash 2.0. By that time System Failure was written and in editing. |
Ah, my memory's playing games with me again. Thanks for the clarification.
| QUOTE (Mr.Platinum) |
| I just can't waite to find out what happened in the UnderWorld, what ever happened to that old Goat Akira Watada? |
There's a number of personalities that I'm waiting to see how they resolve. Watada, Eiji Yakamura (that skag on Z-O that iwns 20% of MTC), Green Lucifer/Ancients, Yuri Shibanokuji, Samantha Villiers, Leonard Aurelius, Rowena O'Malley. I hate waiting.
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