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emo samurai
It would start with the runners finding that their bank accounts have been looted completely. Their decker will track the money through different companies, including several different "companies" (read: AAA gang accounts) all the way back to the penthouse of a high-rent apartment building. They'll find that the tenants are all former otaku and around the age of 12-15, and they have been expecting the runners to find them the whole time. They were part of a more pragmatic tribe of otaku before the crash, and after the crash, they worked tirelessly to seize control of multiple small companies, including a biotech company that has a contract with multiple megacorps and the UCAS military to modify Awakened creatures for military use. One of the otaku will tongue-in-cheek remark that he was planning on using his company's latest prototype genetic monstrosity against the runners, since most of runs usually end with a sort of "last boss" character and the familiarity would perhaps be comforting to the runners. The whole purpose of stealing their money and running them through a gauntlet was to test their battle skill, detective work, and outright love of money. The reward doesn't matter for a one-shot, but if I were to use it in a larger campaign, I'd probably reward them with lots of money, crazy-good contacts, and free luxury apartments.
Azralon
Not so much my cup of tea, but if you think your group will have fun with it then more power to you.
Critias
Why wouldn't they then just point guns at the 12-15 year old kids, and demand their money back plus interest (and a bunch of 12-15 computer genius slaves)?
Kremlin KOA
because the kids would escape and go to lone star...shoot the kids
Lord Ben
They're on the penthouse. Helicoptor to the top of the penthouse, blow a hole in the roof and drop into their bedroom with cover smoke. Shoot them in the face with a stick n' shock mind probe them to your hearts content.

Then torture them to test their resistance to pain and whatnot. At least that's what I'd do. Then shoot their families.
BlackHat
Most players hate being dragged around by their nose-rings.

Its a staple of shadowrun... but usually you find out its a dragon or some important corporation thats using you for some purpose, so you suck it up. With a bunch of kids, your players will be tempted to incapacitate or murder most of them, while mercilessly torturing a few until they either return their money or steal new money and give it to them. Then they murder those kids.

The difference is there isn't a megacorp backing the kids (as iwth some Johnson) nor do they have a legion of fanatical servants (like a Dragon). They're not super powerful, they're just kids - and chances are good that no one outside that tribe gives two shits about what happens to them.

Its pretty much the same as if some cocky decker started f-ing with other shadowrunner's accounts. He's going to die. Little fish, big pond.
Azralon
QUOTE (BlackHat)
Most players hate being dragged around by their nose-rings.

Exactly.

Shadowrun is a game about personal power. Neo-anarchists or not, most runners live outside of the law and therefore try to survive on their own terms, using their own merits.

In my experience, this translates into players despising it when their characters are treated like rats in a maze. They hate it even more when there's no cheese at the end: "So, why did we waste our time with this?"

But hey, like I said, if you believe that this sort of thing would entertain your group then I have no room to criticize. smile.gif
emo samurai
By "no cheese at the end" do you mean satisfactory plot resolution? I'm thinking now that that wouldn't be a good way to end a one-shot campaign and may be a better way to end one gaming session in a longer campaign. And would they be mollified if they were paid several times the money that was stolen? And all the rare biotech/cyberware/magical stuff that the otaku could get for them? If they were led around by the nose, it wouldn't be for the whole multi-session campaign. It would happen pretty much that one time, and hopefully end well.
Lord Ben
But why would they pay them money? I don't get what the Technomancers would get out of luring them to their inner sanctum only to pay them lots of money. What's their goal.
Gothic Rose
Have the kids be scions of Deus, and have them trying to nurture the fractured AI back to "health."

That way, they ARE supported by something really powerful and scary.
emo samurai
I'm trying to think of their motive for testing the runners. They're rich already, so they have no real reason to steal chump change from a bunch of professional killers. At this point, they're just an excuse to have a bunch of cutesy kids totally throw off a team of hardened killers with a combination of childish mannerisms and cold, hard cash.
Gothic Rose
QUOTE (emo samurai)
I'm trying to think of their motive for testing the runners. They're rich already, so they have no real reason to steal chump change from a bunch of professional killers. At this point, they're just an excuse to have a bunch of cutesy kids totally throw off a team of hardened killers with a combination of childish mannerisms and cold, hard cash.

Seriously. have them be wanting to test the runners to see if they're adequate for future plans involving the restoration of Deus to his full and true power.

emo samurai
HEEHEE!!! SOUNDS AWESOME!!! But why would they need runners to be so close to them? Why not just hire people anonymously? Unless these runners were awesome... in which case I'd have to introduce them after maybe 7-8 campaigns so that the runners can develop a reputation.
Kleaner
I would run it a bit differently. I would have the kids actually part of a corp think tank or experiment and they are trying to get the runners attention into rescuing them. They do this by stealing their money.

The kids are very smart, and have money but are bascialy corp assests with no free will. This is why they want to break out. They can't make it to obvious or the corp will figure out that they are drawing attention to themselves. This would also allow you to give hints if the runners get stuck since the kids want to get rescued.

This will give the runners the challenge of hunting down the kids to either a) rescue them and get their money back, plus a possible reward, or b) rescue them and then torture them for fun/profit.

Either way the runners feel like they have a "choice" in the matter, they lost their money, but now they can decide if they want to rescue the kids, or just take it out on the corp. Regardless they still have to go through the corp to get to the kids. If things turn ugly the kids can also call for help from the corp and claim they didn't know anything about the runners.

Another angle you could take on it, is that the kids really are brats, and they are bored with their day jobs at the corps. They try to liven things up by doing outrageous stunts, and one of them decides that he's going to be the "big man" and mess with shadowrunners. His team mates could then find out and try to stop him. This would allowifor massive confusion for the runners as their bank accounts get raided, then restored then raided again.. or their real sin gets published, or sent to lone star, etc, etc.

It's good to have a number of key shakers and movers in runs each with opposing goals, as it lends to some mystery.
Lord Ben
Ah Kleaner, very nice. I'll have to try that plotline out.
emo samurai
That sounds like a very well adapted Ghost in the Shell plotline.
Squinky
Theres no reason the kids need to actaully be present in the room. Have them address the Runners over a trid screen or holo-projector. Otherwise they will most likey be killed....
Demon_Bob
QUOTE (emo samurai)
I'm trying to think of their motive for testing the runners. They're rich already, so they have no real reason to steal chump change from a bunch of professional killers. At this point, they're just an excuse to have a bunch of cutesy kids totally throw off a team of hardened killers with a combination of childish mannerisms and cold, hard cash.

How does this sound?
If they want to test the runners and see it they are good enough for
future employment.
Have the kids launder the money through 3 or 4 banks with some spoofs thrown in. Enough to make it look like someone competent was attempting to launder money, but just not quite good enough to hide the trail from your decker buddy.
Ensure that the deckers money is not stolen that he is just there to find a data trail and get paid. (As you should never rob from someone who is likely to catch you.)
Have the data trail lead to a competating company with enough assists on hand to replace what the Characters lost plus whatever you would pay if a Johnson had hired them.
And so they get richer by eliminating the competition.
emo samurai
That's actually what I was thinking... maybe have it trail through a Yakuza hideout or two.
Mr. Unpronounceable
GM: "...and your bank account's been emptied"

Any of the players in any SR game I've played: "what bank account?"
BlackHat
QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable)
GM: "...and your bank account's been emptied"

Any of the players in any SR game I've played: "what bank account?"

Very true. In order to have a bank account, you have to have a SIN. A fake sin will be detected within the first 5 times you use it.

Shadowrunners tend to deal in certified credsticks - which Otaku would have a hard time accessing.
Lord Ben
Bah, there are all the offshore bank accounts, etc listed in the credstick option. I keep all my stuff there because someone can just steal a credstick.
BlackHat
QUOTE (Lord Ben)
Bah, there are all the offshore bank accounts, etc listed in the credstick option. I keep all my stuff there because someone can just steal a credstick.

How do you withdraw money from your off shore bank account without a SIN?

Offshore bank acocunts keep your information private, but still require identification... identification when gets verified when you withdraw money.
Lord Ben
From the book:

Th e problem with most bank accounts, however, is that
they require a SIN and they keep transaction records, meaning
that all of your purchases create a datatrail. Naturally, however,
enterprising capitalists and criminal institutions have risen to
the challenge. Numerous “off shore” banks provide secure accounts
to legitimate users, but unlike standard banks they keep
their customer information private, do no share transaction
data, and do not report to government authorities. Likewise,
many criminal syndicates have their own black credit institutions
online, providing accounts to anyone who pays the exorbitant
fees, no questions asked, and even off ering lines of credit
(just beware the legbreakers if you’re overdue).
Mr. Unpronounceable
QUOTE (Lord Ben)
...because someone can just steal a credstick.

...from one's cold, dead, hands biggrin.gif

seriously - it's much easier/safer for a person with a non-identity (i.e. typical shadowrunner) to keep the stereotypical 'matress full of cash' hidden and safe, (especially if they're already maintaining multiple safehouses/caches around town) than a typical electronic bank (especially a no-questions-asked one) is going to be able to provide.
Azralon
Certified credstick integrated into a cyberhand.
Lord Ben
I think a Mob run bank is going to be safer than my safe house.
Mr. Unpronounceable
until the mob wants something from you.

it's always a bad idea to let the people who consider you expendable have yet another hold on you.
Lord Ben
Yeah, but if they screw people over then they'll lose business. They already have a profitable business that charges giant rates to store money there. No sense in screwing people over and losing a good thing.

OT, I hate it when DM's have their NPC's react as if they're in a vacuum.
Mr. Unpronounceable
isn't "screwing people over" basically the mob's mission statement? wink.gif

Admittedly, if you've got a very good relationship with them (usually requiring that to be literal) you might get a good deal - but if you're a 'runner, you're automatically an outsider, under suspicion every time something goes wrong, an unwelcome 'variable' in any kind of internal or external power struggle, etc. Much too easy to end up in the railroaded plot of the week for high risk and crap pay.
Lord Ben
If DM's stuck to the game and didn't railroad NPC's into doing something dumb they'd be fairly honest in their banking transactions. Because shadowrunners pay well and because they don't file their complaints through the FIC.
PlatonicPimp
True, but if you tick off the mob, they'll use every hold over you they have to get at you. If they are holding your money, you can bet they'll make your life hell.

The Mob is just another Megacorp, only for the sinless. Deal with them like you would deal with any other Corp. As little as possible.
emo samurai
QUOTE
OT, I hate it when DM's have their NPC's react as if they're in a vacuum.


What do you mean by that?
Drace
But not all shadow-banks are mob/organized crime controlled. The book states that several off-shore banks operate, and I guess you would need to submit your PAN number or something of the sort to gain one, and it would be controlled by your AR, like in the intro to the story buzzkill, with the bribe to the bartender.
emo samurai
So... credsticks are sticks that contain money that everyone just trusts, even though this is a world of hackers and cheats? What's to keep people from just putting infinite money in their credsticks?
Drace
The fact that it wouldn't exist, and if there wasn't actually money transfered from some real source it couldn't exist. But I understand what your getting at, a hacker could essentially have an unlimited credstick.

Hmmmmm, stealling black funds from corps and orgs and putting it all into hard credstick, sounds profitable for runners with a very good hacker, with a high hardware skill and a fully decked out shop.
BlackHat
QUOTE (emo samurai)
So... credsticks are sticks that contain money that everyone just trusts, even though this is a world of hackers and cheats? What's to keep people from just putting infinite money in their credsticks?

I think credsticks have rating 6 encryption on them, and are considered rating 6 devices (probably loaded with most other programs at rating 6, and some trigger-happy IC). A hacker would have to hack his way in, and any noticed attempts would be reported (and in sr3 a failed hacking burned out the credstick).

That aside, sure. In SR3 a good enough hacker could conjure up fake money.
Lord Ben
QUOTE (emo samurai)
QUOTE
OT, I hate it when DM's have their NPC's react as if they're in a vacuum.


What do you mean by that?

I mean that the PC's aren't the only things in the world. When the mob steals things from their own customer they should be concerned about reputation, loss of business, and making enemies - with the other NPC's in the world not just the PC's.

It's more fun when corps act like, well, corps. When they act like pawns of the DM's story line with little rhyme or reason to their actions it ruins the game.

Think back to the Buzzkill story. Sure, they get screwed by the Johnson but the "DM" in the story gave them a decent reason, the Johnson was secretly part of the Humanisclub or whatever it's called so it made sense for the PC's.

If the PC's store their money in an illegal offshore bank the DM should never just say "well their criminals so they steal it". That's dumb! However, it showing up missing and it appears that they stole it or lost it (no record keeping remember!) then a rival bank shows up and says to do business with them instead of the other bank. The PC's investigate only to find out that Bank2 stole their money from Bank1 and made it look like Bank1 did it to run them out of business. That is a valid storyline.

But criminal organizations doing things that are dumb and counterproductive just because the DM can do it and then just rule that stealing money constantly is a smart thing to do and doesn't have long term repercussions is stupid.
emo samurai
QUOTE
That aside, sure. In SR3 a good enough hacker could conjure up fake money.


How much fake money?
Azralon
QUOTE (emo samurai)
How much fake money?

1 nuyen.gif per year.
BlackHat
QUOTE (emo samurai)
QUOTE
That aside, sure. In SR3 a good enough hacker could conjure up fake money.


How much fake money?

I beleive in SR3 the time required (and possible the target-number) was set based upon how much fake money you could create. Of course, back then, the encryption was rating 12, and required expensive hardware-decryption to even have a shot at it. smile.gif

In SR4, device ratings are capped at 6, encryption is software, so also capped at 6, and the decryption software is free, and very fast. Of course you still have to hack a system6/firewall6/anyprogram6/IC6 virtual hell to get to the encrypted data.

In short, the new system doesn't have rules (yet) for forging credsticks. In SR3 it was possible, but the comeplete change of the matrix could have made this no longer possible. If its stil ltheoretically possible, it'd be damn hard - harder than most runs. Also, the time it takes (and thus, the more likely you'll be caught) was basedon the amount of money you want to fake (since you had to also conjure up fake transaction logs, records, etc).

In SR3 it wasn't really ever worth anyone's time. Its much easier to kill someone and sell their stuff - or jsut get a shadowrunning job that pays well.
Feshy
QUOTE
In short, the new system doesn't have rules (yet) for forging credsticks.


Actually, it does.

QUOTE
Bogus credsticks are especially vulnerable to detection; once either the original or copy has been used, verification systems will detect the anomaly as soon as the other is used, immediately flagging all transactions with either stick and preventing either from being used again until the situation is cleared up.


In other words, you can't "make" money, but you can "copy" money -- but it doesn't do any good as the copy is automatically detected when it is used.

QUOTE
It's more fun when corps act like, well, corps. When they act like pawns of the DM's story line with little rhyme or reason to their actions it ruins the game.


Right, because in real life corps never steadfastly hold to some asinine plan that costs them money and reputation. (Sarcasm here. See, for counter-example, the RIAA's members "business practice" of suing their own customers, or Sony's root kit fiasco.)

Though, I do completely agree that even a "criminal" bank "stealing money because they can" is stupid. Anyone who is both paranoid and powerful enough to put money into one of these banks has money in other banks, and the hardware/skillset/contacts to do some serious harm. The only way you'd risk cheesing them off is if you have even more hardware/skills/contacts -- and then there's no sense in stealing from them as you're already better off than they are.
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