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So, what do you think?
Ancient History
I like it.

But everyone already knows I'm a bitter old man stuck in younger man's body.
It's OK. The world itself is cool (WiFi, finally), but a lot of the rule changes make me cry.
Eddie Furious
I like it. Its nice to see that you can seamlessly blend the action of Astral Digital and physical into one round and run everybody pretty much simultaneously now.

Calvin Hobbes
I like the universe moving forward, but I guess I just don't like a lot of things (variety of magical traditions, don't like 99% of the flaws, etc...) and it's just a flavor thing for me, I guess.
What about I haven't bought it yet cause the bookstore and game store and sam goody who I've made three seperate orders with two months ago for the damn thing all haven't got a copy in yet but I will.
I liked a lot of the fiction and ideas in SR4. The new rigging/matrix rules were much, much more practicable. I still prefer the SR3 rules for Magic and Combat (what can I say? I'm a fan of variable target numbers).

I'll still probably keep playing SR3 (since I have almost a complete run of it, minus Wake of the Commet and Shadows of Asia, which I'm working on wink.gif ) I think SR4 is a little less gritty than 3rd, and some of the formatting in SR4 was kind of bewildering. I will probably be incorperating a bit of SR4 material, though (I definitely thing the SR4 cyberware prices are more resonable, for example), but I doubt my group will bother relearning how to play Shadowrun from the ground up.
Does asking for it for christmas count?
I liked more separate magical traditions better...though the more reasonable cyberware prices are cool...

It's great, so long as you house rule some things,plus the Archetype artwork is fragging amazing!
Well, I didn't buy it...

I got a SR4.01d for free (because they re-used the Steyr TMP picture I had drawn for the German Cannon Companion without naming me in the credits) an on top a SR4.01d Limited also for free (won as a prize in a SR quiz).

I really like SR4.
I never really played SR3* (though I have most of the books) because around its release my gaming group splintered as we finished school and went on to different universities so I never developed the intense love for the SR3 rules that seems to fuel most SR4 haters.
To me the elements that separated SR's rules from other RPGs were the success system (where other games only had a binary "succeed or fail" resolution), damage resistance and wound monitor* (instead of hitpoints) and magic drain (instead of "magic points" or spell slot memorizing) allowing magicians to go on casting spells forever if they choose spell power wisely.
SR4 still has all of these!

* I originally started with SR2 back in 1992.
** Granted, other games have wound monitors, too (e.g. KULT or Cyberpunk 2020).
I haven't bought it yet. The web page of a Finnish retail dealer lists it as 'published but not yet available'. I'm in no hurry though. I also don't have a gaming group at the moment. I still want the book out of interest, and for possible future use. Reading through the Errata thread convinces me to wait for the next printing. Naturally there'll be some mistakes and rules in need of clarification later on too, I just prefer the errata fitting into the page marginals. smile.gif

P.S. My handwriting isn't exactly small.
Option 2 was mine. Maybe i swtich over to 1, after i played some runs with SR4.
Aquired a copy and read it on and off canibalizing the rigging rules for SR3R, but other than that. Basically I don't like anything about the new rules with maybe the exception of the initiative system, but not the Initiative glitch rule. Jesus Christ, the Glitch rules are bad enough, but to enforce it on initiative rolls is just more evil than child molestors and people who talk during movies combined!
For the record I chose #7. I didn't see a need for it so we kept to Sr3.
SL James
Not yet, I'm waiting for a second printing.
Six - I don't like anything I've heard about it and I got to flick through it quickly and it was heavily unimpressive. I'll probably end up getting it when I can be bothered, stealing any good ideas and converting them to SR3 and then pretty much give up on SR4.

My view is that if ever there was a game that absolutely did not need another edition (other than the publisher's need to print more money) it was SR3. What respect I had garnered for the publishers after the simply superb Shadows of Asia plummeted after I saw the mess that was SR4.
QUOTE (Samoth)
Not yet, I'm waiting for a second printing.

I bought only the LE so far, which is not to be used in actual gaming. For the day-to-day rulebook i'll wait for the second print run too.
Nr 3 here. I got the PDF to check it out, and was quickly disappointed in the rules mechanics. I was also pretty unimpressed with a lot of the fluff changes.

I do like some of the concepts put forth, and will cannibalize them into my game. Most of these, however, would have been easily gleaned from DS.
Kyoto Kid
2 1/2

Yes I have it.

Am going through it (up into the "Hacking" section now, have worked up a couple of characters)

Like some stuff (Cyber's cheaper, Mages/Adepts don't loose magic for wounds, Matrix work is more playable)

Jury is out on some other stuff (Technomancers still a bit weak, Awakened characters really get burned Karma-wise, Bio more expensive then SR3 in some cases, no "stepped" availability on some gear like plastic explosives)

May actually be playing in a campaign with it soon

Will know better after a session or two.

My gaming group is unimpressed with SR4.
6. I borrowed a copy and did not like what I read.

I am do not like the mechanics of the new system, nor the balance changes. All that needed to be worked on with sr3 was the decking/rigging rules. If they had of spent the same amount of time working on proper mechanics and combined the two in sr3 it would have made more sense. (but probably no where near the hype or profit as releasing a new version that trashes almost everything before)
Ordered it, want to take a look at it. Will decide after that.

Upside: a couple of new recruits, it will put us all at the same level as far as understanding the rules. I hear that it's simpler, and in general, I like simple rules.
New progression in the metaplot.

Downside: I have to "unlearn" stuff that's been drilled into me for years. Several hundred dollars worth of my stuff may become obsolete. Out of date sourcebooks.

so far, anyway
I've got 2 copies.

So far I've been enjoying the system. Is it perfect, no, but I've never seen a perfect game system. The new system makes it much easier for new people to join into the game, and creates a simpler model.

I've heard about people taking all day and barely finishing characters. After ten minutes of talking about the world and explaining a few things, I had a game started and people were making characters. 30 minutes later, the game itself actually started. The players worked on histories and motivations in between sessions, but the first session helped them create a personality and understand the mechanics.
My friend has a copy. I only like the line at eh end of the section (page 48 I believe) called "Sex" which states "There are even rumors of good times to be experienced with willing spirits..."

I would buy it if it told me how much it cost to Dikote her.

~ Nightshade
QUOTE (McQuillan @ Dec 24 2005, 06:35 PM)
I've heard about people taking all day and barely finishing characters.  After ten minutes of talking about the world and explaining a few things, I had a game started and people were making characters.  30 minutes later, the game itself actually started.  The players worked on histories and motivations in between sessions, but the first session helped them create a personality and understand the mechanics.

Um, I can do that with what we play now. (sort of a SR 2.5)
I remember what most of the stuff does, and if I don't I remember what book I need. (Most of the time. If not, I know where to find a book ninja! wink.gif )

I've looked over the SR4 rules, and I don't really think they are simpler. Personally, I find them more complicated. As I've stated before, I'll keep up with the flavor text, but I like the old engine just fine. I have no problem getting a char made in a half hour or less, I just need the person to decide what they want to play.

Though personally, I would prefer the person spend all day figuring out their char. personalty and background. Then numbers only take a long time if you are tying to twink or you are being REALLY picky about details.
I voted (1), but I still prefer some thing's in SR3, I'll probably end up running an evil "Frankenstein's Monster" SR3/4 Hybrid.
It's not out (or not obtainable from the usual sources) in the UK. I did however buy 3rd Edition SR (For 4.99, and it's in good shape too), to keep me happy, i was using 1st and 2nd edition rules for a while.
emo samurai
I heard that the matrix rules in the earlier editons were insane. The latest Matrix sourcebook I've read is Virtual Realities 2.0, and that had, like, 20 different modifiers on each roll. If the Matrix sourcebooks were anywhere near as complicated as that, then my vote definitely goes to SR4.
I dig the way the mechanics work out in actual play - swift and fairly realistic. Also love the fact that you can play a decker (ok hacker) without disrupting everything else going on.

But what is most awesome (or awesomest) is that the game doesn't have that "cliff" effect brought on by TN6 anymore. You don't need the biggest gun, the fastest reflexes or the best armor to play the game. You can use a light pistol, or an SMG with normal ammo and be JUST FINE. No need to max out your stats in order to just survive.
Although I didn't buy mine, it's a x-mas present (alsong with SoA, System Failure & Rifts Mercenary Adventures) & I had a look though it.

I'm a little disappointed on what they did with Character Creation & the way Magic was left so wide open for Tradition interpretation, I like that it's keeping up. The wifi gear & aspects are going to be a metabear to keep up with, I'm going to stick with it.

Welcome to the SOTA. Adapt/Evolve.
#3 for me. My entire gaming group is unimpressed with the rules, so I don't think I'll even be able to run a game. The rules aren't really any simpler, they're just better-written. They have some really great ideas, but petered out in the implementation: instead of going for a rules-lite system, they took a rules-lite idea and bloated it with crunch-heavy mechanics. For example, the fact that you now have a *mandatory* three dice rolls to make for every combat action really slows down the action.
Kyoto Kid
modified to 2 1/4 (possibly 2 1/8 ). Reworked a couple of older concepts as starting characters.

KK comes out better than she was in SR1 (or 2). For the scale & mechanics of the game, she is pretty tough without having to juke all her physical stats to 6 or beyond. Also she is able to begin with a low power weapon focus (low power is better than no power). With Ambidexterity being a one time cost (no off hand penalty), she actually comes closer to the original concept I envisioned. I realise, raising her MA would be tougher (roughly double the Karma). Of course one of the best changes for her is the dropping of magic loss for taking a deadly wound.

The same applies to Violet who now actually makes an effective decker (hacker) while still being the technical wiz kid B & E specialist. Many of her implants take less essence (and far less nuyen) and in some cases offer better benefits. For example The mnemonic enhancer now adds its rating in dice to pools for knowledge (which she has 30 pts in) as well as language skills. Also with the new hacking rules, she becomes a lot more playable than before. & not such a burden to the other players.

Leela, well she's another story since she was partly done under the shadowbeat rules for her performance skill. However I do like the new demolitions rules, a bit more useful and realistic. Still a work in progress.

I also like the way contacts work. With the connection and Loyalty ratings the old Good Reputation and Connected edges are now basically built directly in. You can now start with a "friend for life" if you are willing to spend the BPs.

I am still waiting thought on the forthcoming expansions. Some Bad Qualities that are still lacking in the game include Dossier, Hunted, Flashbacks, and Dark Secret. These are fun ones to play with from a GM's perspective. As to Amnesia, I'm for one am glad it was omitted.

More updates coming
QUOTE (emo samurai)
I heard that the matrix rules in the earlier editons were insane. The latest Matrix sourcebook I've read is Virtual Realities 2.0, and that had, like, 20 different modifiers on each roll. If the Matrix sourcebooks were anywhere near as complicated as that, then my vote definitely goes to SR4.

The real problem with matrix rules were that is was a whole seperate adventure setting. The decker would go off to do his voodoo and everyone else sat around and got out the paperbacks. Our group played for years and quickly all agreed the decker would be an NPC so the GM could run stuff quickly.
I did not care for it. The writing, art, and format is good, but it did not hook me. To be honest after 10++ years of GMing Shadowrun I have given up on the Rules. I like the setting and the writing (Save the last novel).

If I ever run Shadowrun again it will be with a Rules Set/System I like and have converted from Shadowrun's own.

Good luck and have fun.

ok borrowed a copy and i reallly really like what i see.
I haven't played Shadowrun for years now. News of a new edition got my attention. Initially I was put off by some bad feedback I had read. Curiosity finally got to me and I took the plunge and am glad I did. I absolutely love it. I have always enjoyed the setting and consider the simplification of the ruleset a necessity to not only bring in some new faces but also to bring back some old ones.
Capt. Dave
I must say, on first inspection, I don't much care for it.
However, I'll run a few games with it, (providing I can get the gang to sign on)
and we'll give it a fair go before we set our opinions in stone.

EDIT - To be fair, much of my reluctance to go with SR4 stems from my intimate knowledge of SR3. Everything is deeply etched into my brain. I find no need to consult books to look up rules, as they are all in my head. It took years to be able to do that, and I don't have the time these days to update my bookninja license.
Recently got it, but still reserving judgement. I am actually more aware of the faults of the game, from reading the SR4 forums, so I will be looking at those areas to see how they affect playability, and seeing how the muddled areas have been interpreted or erratta'd.

There are things that I like about the book too, though. It is a lot more complete than SR3 (it has cyber and bioware, it has a decent selection of the most commonly encountered critters, initiation, etc.), and even with a cursory glance, there seem to be a number of changes that I approve of.

Adepts can start out with bonded weapon foci, resources are incremental rather than certain set amounts, no more set force for spells that require you to "re-learn" the same spell to get it at a higher force, light pistols that are actually useful, availability ratings that make more sense than before (you can actually have a sniper start out with a sniper rifle!), social skills are more balanced, and more.
Craptastic organization.
Very well-done rules.
If it were laid out in a similar manner to D&D, it would be much easier to use.
Also, street samurai are more or less shafted in many ways.
Got it a few days ago. It was super hard to find, every single geek store was out of it, from L.A. to the deep OC. I found a copy stashed behind books at borders. The copy was a little beat up, but I got it anyways.

I am very very impressed with it, I like the new rules etc.

I did not like it one bit. It's a dumbed down, shadow of its former self (no I'm not bitter wink.gif ). My group will be sticking with 3rd edition.

It did have one good thing about it though... the writing and art were top notch. It was the only saving grace of the entire book.
it's about time computers went wireless.
The unfortunate trend in gaming in general is towards the quick and simple system. Competition with the D20 system, which on the surface is pretty quick and easy and incredibly adaptable has seen to that. Many people really like this and others feel it is a "dumbing down" that cause games to loose a certain level of flaver in lieu of smoother more streamlined mechanics. Personally I want my tabletop miniatures games to be smooth and streamlined and want my roeplaying games to have slightly more involved game mechanics that lend to a certain feel. I am an old man that enjoys the metagame as much as anything. Either way, I am all about the story and that is the most significant reason to get the SR4 book.

Moya (o)(o)

I enjoy with what I've seen and used so far. I've even ran two small sessions with it.
MK Ultra
I realy like the rules. They are a bit too flat for my taste, but with SR1-3 stamped into my neronconections and being obsessed with modifying any RPG-mechanics I read in real time, its no prob to houserule (allso the suggestions for optional rules are very usefull, I used allmost all of them).

Im a bit disappointed about the lack in background, history and fluff, but this -as I found out after some days of threat-crunching- stems mostly from the lack of sorcebooks out yet, or rater the abundance of sbs for the old editions Ive read. Actually the lifestyle section is better then in any other core book.

I like the green/white layout!

I realy hate and dispise most of the artwork! Some of the archetypes are realy cool, others are realy uncool and many of the illustrations throuout the book, id rather cut out!

The fiction intros to every chapter are very cool!
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