Okay, I'm sure this must be covered somewhere. But looking it up in several places seemed to give me conflicting information.
If I'm trying to do a very difficult task (threshold = 3), do I need 3 hits, or 4 (one above threshold) to succeed?
I would guess only 3 hits would be needed, since 1 hit on easy (threshold = 1) tasks seems to be sufficient, but I wanted to be sure.
Full Version: threshold
3.
one thing that I missed at first was that "net hits" is hits above threshold.
one thing that I missed at first was that "net hits" is hits above threshold.
yeah, so if I need 'net hits' on a difficult task, doesn't that mean at least 4? If the treshold is 3, don't I need more than 3 to have net hits?
Nope, Threshold of 3 = 3 hits total.
no, you still only need 3
net hits matter for extra stuff. Like, when shooting, you add your net hits to the damage of the wpn. so if you shoot a 4L gun and get 4 successes, the target dodges and gets 1 success, you have 3 success, or 2 net hits, thus +2 damage.
not +3 damage.
if each net hit, for example, makes your task go faster, 3 successes is base time, 4 or more is faster than base time.
net hits matter for extra stuff. Like, when shooting, you add your net hits to the damage of the wpn. so if you shoot a 4L gun and get 4 successes, the target dodges and gets 1 success, you have 3 success, or 2 net hits, thus +2 damage.
not +3 damage.
if each net hit, for example, makes your task go faster, 3 successes is base time, 4 or more is faster than base time.
Except that now with Extended Tests, anything with a duration on it actually cannot have net hits taken from base time, at least I'm pretty sure you can't anymore. The only exception to this is Permenant Spells, where you can use net hits on the spellcasting test to reduce base time, but then that decreases the effectiveness of your spell.
ok, thanks
| QUOTE (ogbendog) |
| no, you still only need 3 net hits matter for extra stuff. Like, when shooting, you add your net hits to the damage of the wpn. so if you shoot a 4L gun and get 4 successes, the target dodges and gets 1 success, you have 3 success, or 2 net hits, thus +2 damage. not +3 damage. if each net hit, for example, makes your task go faster, 3 successes is base time, 4 or more is faster than base time. |
Really? Is that how it works?
Shoot.
*goes and rereads SR4*
pg 139: 3. Make the Opposed Test
If the attacker scores more hits than the defender (the defender wins on ties), the attack hits the target. Otherwise, the attack misses. Note the net hits (the number of hits that exceed the defender's hits).
So in your example, the attacker has 4 hits and the defender has 1 hit. The attack hits, since the attacker has more. The net hits, or the number of hits that exceed the defender's hits (definition above) is 3. 4 exceeds 1 by 3. Also sometimes written as 4-1=3. (I'm not being snarky, here, I'm trying to be clear)
So that would imply that the net hits is 3, not 2. So +3 damage. It would seem that +0 damage is not possible from this example.
This is the fundamental mechanic, it should not be confusing, AT ALL! Why must this conversation exist!?
Please be gentle in showing me the error of my ways. I just got the book.
edit: The burst example on pg 143 also has 3 hits vs 2 hits giving +1DV to an attack. This all leaves me very confused as to when, exactly, I need to exceed a number and when I need to meet a number.
If the attacker scores more hits than the defender (the defender wins on ties), the attack hits the target. Otherwise, the attack misses. Note the net hits (the number of hits that exceed the defender's hits).
So in your example, the attacker has 4 hits and the defender has 1 hit. The attack hits, since the attacker has more. The net hits, or the number of hits that exceed the defender's hits (definition above) is 3. 4 exceeds 1 by 3. Also sometimes written as 4-1=3. (I'm not being snarky, here, I'm trying to be clear)
So that would imply that the net hits is 3, not 2. So +3 damage. It would seem that +0 damage is not possible from this example.
This is the fundamental mechanic, it should not be confusing, AT ALL! Why must this conversation exist!?
Please be gentle in showing me the error of my ways. I just got the book.
edit: The burst example on pg 143 also has 3 hits vs 2 hits giving +1DV to an attack. This all leaves me very confused as to when, exactly, I need to exceed a number and when I need to meet a number.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Dec 20 2005, 11:03 AM) |
| This is the fundamental mechanic, it should not be confusing, AT ALL! Why must this conversation exist!? |
The reason the conversation exists is that ties go to different people depending on the circumstance. For castng illusion spells or other spells for that matter ties go to the attacker (the caster). For melee ties go to the defender. For ranged ties go to the attacker. When going against a threshold ties go to the attacker, but net hits are still calculated by how much you exceed the Threshold; therefore meeting the Threshold gives you 0 net successes but you still succeed.
That all make sense? Well then I guess you don't need this thread.
Oh, and I'm actually right on all that, yes?
I have no idea.
Except I thought for ranged, ties went to the defender. My quote above was from the section on the Combat Sequence, so should apply to all combat actions.
So, when you're rolling against a threshold, you just need 0 net successes to succeed (aka, tied go to the "attacker" as you say) but positive net successes are good.
So much for a simplified mechanic.
Except I thought for ranged, ties went to the defender. My quote above was from the section on the Combat Sequence, so should apply to all combat actions.
So, when you're rolling against a threshold, you just need 0 net successes to succeed (aka, tied go to the "attacker" as you say) but positive net successes are good.
So much for a simplified mechanic.
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