Long time lurker, first time poster:

Im looking into creating a mundane gear creation guide for those odds and ends the creative players tend to ask for. "Mundane" in as much that it would help define gear that would be available in the world, but not described in the books, or create new gear the particularly inventive may endevour to create .

The intention isnt to allow players to create new firearms, magical items, hacker items, vehicles, and the like (those books are coming from what I understand), but rather the things they wish they had and may be useful to runners (either in general or for a specific run). Barring duplication of existing items.

Ive started to compile availability-, cost-, build requirement-, etc... -charts to aid in generating these things.

Instead of micromanaging the entire inventory of items required to build ANY given object, I have a more abstract method of derriving the parts and concluding the outcome. GM approval is, of course, epitome to the feasibility of anything the PCs wish to try and pull I mean "make". A good way to keep from making gamebreaking items.

A question to the community, would you be interested in such a tome?

If so, Id like to present what I have thus far and get your feedback for further development.
- Thanks in advance

Sounds interesting. SO if I understand correctly this would be the collection of cost/availability of common tools (like Crowbars and Bolt Cutters) and the how-tos of building crazy gadgets (Water Balloon sling shots, Rube Goldberg machines, Crystal Radios etc). Maybe also include home-brew explosives and toxins, and some improvised weapon tables?

Basically correct.

In fact, there is a "Chemical" category to generate interesting ...well, chemicals. The uses are near endless.

It is still a work in progress, but before I spent another long night working on it, I thought Id ask if anyone was interested.

Some examples will also (ultimately) be included as examples of the possibilities.

The goal in listing odds and ends items (crowbars, etc, which is abstractly covered in "Tool kits") isnt meant to slow things down, but to be more a guide for the stranger things imagined.

For example, what if someone with a high electronics skill wanted to make a specific purpose item (cant think of anything at the moment). He would need electronic parts to do so. Whats the quality of those parts? cost? availability? after all, military grade electronics arent at Radio Shack, but you can make some interesting things from that which IS available.

The sum of those parts, and any other parts, as well as the purpose of the completed item, sophistication, legality, construction costs, and other factors, would allow a gamemaster to dictate its variety of uses and consequences of using it.

Well, you get the idea I hope.
Please ask or interject anything that may seem important for tackling this project.

I for one think it's a great idea, and would love to see it. I'd be willing to help to the extent that I have free time. I've always been one for creative tricks (like integrating surveillance kits in to household appliances)

MacGyvers of the (Sixth) world - Unite
(Redshirt - good idea. When you'll publish this stuff?)

At least some interest is expressed. Thats enough for me to want to continue.

Now, considering that the Build rules in game are fairly open (rightly so), what would you (that means anyone who reads this) want to build?

Ive backtracked on something I originally said I wouldnt do. That is, I will include the ability to replicate an existing item, but treated as "Improvised" version of its inspiration... with some drawbacks (glitches occur more frequently depending on the projects complexity).
One example was a target tracking Sentry Gun on tripod. All the parts are available to construct a low cost replica of the "Smartgun platform" (Smartgun link, ext. smart link, a pocket pc, goggles, some motors, a tripod from a camera or such...). Since the entire project is rather complex (i.e. Build list "Complex" or Intricate") the chance for glitches increase to 1's or 2's.

I would like to know what ideas everyone else may have as a means to determine if there are things Im forgetting to consider.
lets hear some ideas or some thoughts on what you would like to see possible in an expanded Build capacity.

One thing you'll need to do to some degree is decide whther you're doing an SR3 or an SR4 list.

sorry. I forgot to mention its a 4th ed project.

Do you think it would be fairly safe to assume that things like Silicon Crystal Growers, Computer controlled High Precision Metal Lathes, Centrifuges, Heavy Impact metal form molds, and other heavy industrial tools of that ilk will pretty much always be outside of the average runner's reach, or perhaps use of such an item for a required component of a build could be a run unto itself.

oh trust me lots of people are probably interested but no one is saying anything because your doing it

I just ended a campaign with a character who kept this in his trunk:

1 Chainsaw, 2 gallons gasoline, 1 chemistry textbook, 1 steam plant textbook, 1 tool kit, 1 pair combat boots, 1 fire extinguisher, 1 roll duct tape, 1 box UV glowsticks, 2 Savior Reloads, 1 North American Atlas, 1 deck of poker cards, 1 set of chips, 1 forensics kit, 1 generic black armored Jacket, 1 set decal patches for armored jacket, 100m stealth grapple line, 1 catalyst stick, 1 grapple-gun, 1 set climbing gear, 1 Travel Guide for Hawaii, 1 Magemask, 1 Standard Transportable Satellite Dish, 1 lockpick gun (6)

Especially: set decal patches for armored jacket needs to make it in, because disguise is a generally underused tactic and it really facilitated it a couple of times.

One of our players is also obsessed with a whole family of knowledge skills starting with the "1,001 things you can do with a blender" skill, which all revolve around mundane items with amorphous game costs, so it's good you're doing this.

Obviously having players "acquire" heavy industrial technology to complete a project is something that will require GM control. This isnt going to let the PCs build a Mars Explorer, but do interesting, runner-esque things otherwise.

Of course, there is the possibility that if ambitious runners (read Suicidal) wish to do the extreme stuff, it may require some rather high profile runs on megacorps to get what they need... 1 small piece at a time.

Here's a taste of what is going into the Guide:
Project Description: PC indicates intention of project.

Intended project Rating: PC indicates the outcomes rating, dictating skill level for a user of the project; the level of complexity (Simiple, Basic, Complex, Intricate, Exotic).

Classification of project: Electronic, Mechanical, bio, Chem, ...; used to help figure out what skills will be needed too.

Materials required (and Availability): Standard materials, Specialty, Exotic goods and the range of Avails; Quality of goods (adjusts construction pool, cost, avail).

Build rating max: (basically notes the highest pertaining skill to project as max in the builders capability; so Guy cant build a nuke with his physics 1 skill )

Parts: basic, Complex, Intricate, Exotic. Coupled with the nature of the part (i.e. "Mechanical: Complex"); Blackmarket parts (same as in book).

The Process: Design (and Skills required to Design a project), Parts/Materials, Required Tools(and Skills for those tools if applies),Construction skills (required; Time to construct:)

Improvising: (the inherantly poor nature of a copy vs. the real thing; Improvised item Glitch expansion).

Skill ideas: a list that expands on "Knowledge" skills that would be incredibly useful in building, designing, constructing, etc whatever is generated. of course, emphasis is on spurring the imagination of the PC instead of creating new skills and rules. Since the Knowledge skills are boundless, this is just a primer.

Examples: here I plan on giving some examples of particularly creative ways this Guide can be used.

Throughout, I have stressed GM management and approval for everything. If a project is extensive, it would surely be an easy plot hook if nothing else. Its still not an excuse to allow a player to pursue something that would destroy a game.

If word ever got out on some projects, unwanted attention is usually acquired... and by black-suited, deltaware types.

Comments? Suggestions? Please do add. I came here for constructive input.

Ok. if the number of views is indicative, this project is going to be tossed out.

The topic seems (in retrospect) misleading and very few seem interested in the actual project.

Oh well. Chaulk it up to experience and let it go. Thanks anyhow for the few that thought it was worth a few brain cells.

Maybe I will post some of the items as fodder for the masses at a later date.

I still think it's an interesting idea, too bad I don't have many backers. Oh well. I guess the Shadowrun meets Home Improvement project goes back on the shelf. It seems like there was a good framework for design & build rules too.

There is a nice book on that already:

"...and a ten foot pole"

Granted, most inhabitants of Polen I met where shorter but as an equipment list it still is nice.

heh "Polen".

I think I will change direction on this and try and conceive a list of gear that runners might want to have on them, other than the book stuff.

I dont know. If anyone else has a good idea for a direction, Im all ears.

hehe. id rather like to stay away from the stuff thats TOO mundane

Here is some ideas I kicked around lastnight before going to bed (and subsequently staying awake thinking about):
[Keep in mind this is only an initial brainstorm and lacks some of the specifics I will define later. These are just ideas and not game breakers. Things like Fire Extinguisher will have specific instances of use (uh fire damage). Others will also have specifics directly associated with its usage.]

From the Colorado based "Sky Hill Outfitting company" specializing in Safety equipment and Outdoor adventure gear.......... (think catalog as you read through the ideas).

Retractable 10 foot pole: Constructed of nonconductive polymers, this retractable pole collapses into a convenient 2 foot length for ease of transport.

AutoClimber: This harness is equipped with a wench system that can be used with most grapple systems to enhance the ascending and descending capabilities of the wearer. A convenient battery pack 3”x6” in size fits in its own pouch on the waist-belt of the wearer and powers the Autoclimber for up to 50’ of ascension or 100’ dissension. The optional extended safety system can be applied for manual ascent and descent with autobreaking functions to stop a climber from descending too quickly. This feature may be overridden, but the user accepts all responsibility for damage to the unit, harness, or personal injury or death.
Additional battery packs may be acquired; increasing the powered assist distances 1 fold for each extra battery.

Tactical Equipment Harness: This is a load-bearing equipment harness that allows for ease of storage for those items the user needs quick access to.
Base harness includes shoulder and waist supports for modular storage containers to be snapped onto.
Optional equipment includes: Left hand holster, Right hand holster, chest/ waist storage pouches, liquid containers (100ml, 250ml sizes available), padded storage box (for delicate items), knife sheaths, sword sheaths, Tough-Tube ™ storage compartments, backpacks (small capacity, medium capacity, large capacity, and extra-large capacities available), Mirage Oasis ™ water dispensing unit (2 liter and 4 liter units available), shoulder mount lamp (batteries not included), laser pointer (for visual marking only), and appliqué armor for center torso, back, shoulders, groin, and thighs.
The Tac Equip Harness can be seamlessly integrated with the Autoclimber system and any electrical options added can draw power from its batteries.

Personal Locator system: Originally used by medical personnel of the worlds militaries, these devices are for swift response to those in need of urgent medical attention.
The PLS has 2 units, a Biomonitor marker(Sensor Tag) and a locator system (using Stealth Tags). The marker system is worn by individuals who have occupational risks that may endanger their wellbeing. It monitors the wearers vital signs. When the wearer becomes incapacitated, the marker automatically sends an electronic beacon to the locator units. The locator units have a screen that identifies the marked individuals distance, direction, and elevation changes from the locator.
This may be connected to imagelinks for display and may also be connected to the wearers Doc Wagon account for further safety. The batterylife of a marker unit once it is activated is 48 hours.

MicroSCUBA: The microSCUBA line includes such innovative utilities such as the microRespirator which is for emergency air if standard gear fails. A tank of compressed air and respirator mouthpiece are securely incased in a package of 10”x 2” diameter and includes enough air for approximately 10 minutes.


Fireworks: small, explosive fireworks with a variety of displays, these are good distraction creators.

E-works: Generates a electronic fireworks display on any electronic visual reseptors. (effectively a whitenoise generator for image displays).


Aerosol mist canister: Spray and see laser trails.
Aerosol Mag canister: Spray a mist of magnetic particles. Fool MAD systems.

Short-out Foam: Spray into an electrical devices components to short out the connections.

D.O.G.: A microdrone that you can place in an area to detect motion, MAD, or Thermal discrepancies. It will alert you of any changes on your receiver unit.

Explosive ordinance disposal kit: bang bag (for covering explosives for “safe” detonation), electronics kit, articulate mechanical arms with hands, defuse foam, electronic diagnostic kit, helmet with face blast shield, EOD suit,(drone disposal units available in Spring 2071!).

Metal eating acid:
Plastic desolver acid:
Organic desolver acid:


Emergency Rations: MREs

Personal Fire extinguisher: good for covering 1 human in fire exstinguishing foam.

Fire resistant parka: Emergency use fire escape parka with flame resistant material and a clear vision panel for safer navigation out of a fire.

Cocoon foam: medical foam impregnated with stim, slap, or tranq for use on critically injured.

Casualty extraction net: think Chewie and 3PO.


[ The actual game play rules for these items will vary depending on some GM management, but a guideline will be accompanying each item.]

That's a lot of cool gear, lots of it I'd include in games. Some of these items may just need to be updated from the Cannon Companion and Fields of Fire (I think they had WEB Gear and Field rations for example). I kind of tend to want to see the mundane stuff too because questions frequently come up in our games like "Does a crowbar have reach if used as a club?" (We eventually decided no it wasn't long enough) or "how long does the battery pack on a cordless circular saw last?" Basically we're finding that lots of really basic tools aren't covered anywhere. I'm happy to work on the more mundane side of things.

I havent looked at my Cannon Companion in a while. Guess its timet o break it out and make sure Im not doing too much overlapping.

More ideas to follow.

Steve, you have a message from me.

Looks like this may be growing some legs after all. I've done a little brainstorming on the tools side of this. Anyone have any ideas be sure to add them to this thread.

Yes, the project has indeed been revitalized, but in a new direction. Steve and I would like to hear ideas that players and GMs would like to see included in a project such as this.

The idea is simple: Provide some every day gear that runners could find useful that isnt outlined already. Be creative. We would love to hear some feedback.

Ok, I've been kind of in the process of putting everything and the kitchen sink in to an outline, so that I can move to part 2, getting rid of all the truly ridiculous and useless stuff. I may start putting up some topics to debate the finer points of various mundane items.

Yeah, we should start a new thread since people are probably turned off from the initial posts and dont read the bottom.

How about a couple of different weapons/programs?

A Speargun would be nice for underwater combat, and it would be interesting to hear how the guy caught a spear because of his reflexes. It could even be used above water, which brings a whole new meaning to the term "spear chucker".

A Lasgun (Also known as a Laser Rifle), though I would think this would be a rare weapon. Given the technology, this may or may not be possible except in VR.

A Chainsword. Think chainsaw, except in a sword form. It's powerful and a lot easier to wield.

The Two-Ponged Defense, a program based on a very old game in the 20th century known as pong, is designed to incorporate two attacks simultaneous, one weak "Blackout (1)" attack followed immediately with a "Blackhammer (3)" attack, in order to catch the opponent off-guard. Black IC would probably not fall for this, but other hackers might. The advantage is not in the power, but in the dual attack. (Making it more likely you will hit and lock them into the system.) Cost: 4000

ADP, the Agent Defense Program, combines the abilities of 3 agents together to form a fighting unit. The first agent is loaded with "Track (3) Sniffer (3) Stealth (3)", the second with "Blackhammer (3) Armor (3) Analyze (3)", the third with "Medic (3) Armor (3) Analyze (3)".

The first agent is used to trace the hacker back to it's source, then spy on his communications. The first agent can be uploaded with exploit for a small fee. The second agent is the combat portion of the team, using Analyze to find it's target and Blackhammer to teach it a lesson. The second agent can be uploaded with Blackout for an additional fee. The third is the medic, used to heal the second agent. The third can be uploaded with Blackout for a small fee.

Good ideas. I have a feeling you play warhammer 40k.

Some of the programming and weapon profiles may get touched on in an appropriate Hackers book and Cannon Companion style books in the future, so we may steer away from those types of things. Laser weapons are indeed already in 3rd edition and I imagine they will show up again in a later publication.

I do like the speargun idea though and might look into it for inclussion.
Thanks!

Wasn´t there a speargun in canon compandium?

Edit: There it is (p. 31)

SS, 6M, 2kg, 3/24h, 800 , SI 1, SMG Range, Ammo & Conceal -

Two bits of gear I had come up with and are sitting in my notes file:

Signal laser sight:
Works as a normal laser sight, but also incorporates a beam splitter / projector controller and a wireless link. Essentially you can put on your own very small laser show, or, more practically, use it for communications. For instance, you could use it to write "help is coming" on the wall behind the hostages your swat team is about to rescue, without lowering your weapon from the ready position.

Tactical Flashlight / Flashpack
Works as a normal tactical flashlight, low-light flashlight, or infra-red flashlight, but also includes a built-in flash pack.

Oh, and I'd like to point out that unless your laser spray has some very unusual optical properties, it won't work. Most laser tripwires used today are in the infra-red range, and most high-quality systems also detect any spray or fog in the air too... heck, you can measure humidity with a sensitive enough system.

one thing you might want to think about, is making most of these items "one use" or atleast, limited use, so someone can't keep using the same 24 inches of fishline or dental floss

The SCUBA stuff (originally outlined in CC I think) I plan on doing is more stuff that runners can find interesting uses for. Like my MicroSCUBA idea. Although Id like to see the of stuff like the Oxysgill.

Good point Feshy, on the lasers. what might be a suitable substitute in your opinion?

steve, looks like we might have to implement a "number of uses" (or such) in our more disposable/rechargable/ etc items. Something easily managable by players and GMs (low numbers Im thinking. Item dependant of course).

Given the highly disposable nature of a large number of consumer products in SR Canon (Vending machine clothes for example), single use for lots of things seems reasonable. It also supports the consumer convenience culture the corps need to survive and thrive. Floss for example is not durable, even when used as directed it's usually a frayed mess by the time your done with it, besides it wouldn't be sanitary to reuse so why manufacture for longevity. Your Micro-Scuba could have a re-useable mask that requires disposable pre-filled tanks. We should keep in mind that products that are disposable or have disposable components or consumeables are cash cows for maunfacturers today, and are probably even more heavily exploited in 2070. I agree our work should reflect that marketing mentality.

There was a scientific catalog my mother used to get me as a boy, it was called Edmunds Scientific. You could order actual lasers and stuff for projects and such nothing high end melt your face off but a laser none the less. Also there were optical kits and other cool things. I used to order from them all the time with magnets and optical lenses and cool guy stuff. Maybe you could incorporate something of the same?

See if they have a website, and post a link if you find one. It sounds cool. Maybe they will have some stuff we can use.

Brigade Quartermaster: Bringing the Gear to the Good Guys

Plus with all the other Edmunds Scientifica sites such as the one with Argon lasers and such advanced optics and magnetics. The home scientist/MacGyver type can do so much.

Just read through the thread, and I really like the idea. It reminds me of "The Rock" (the movie), where the Tactical guys are suiting up in webbing, checking SMGs, etc, and Sean Connerys character asks for lighter fluid, a book of matches, etc...

Some thoughts I had on this: I notice you were thinking of changing the glitch rule during creation... I probably wouldn't touch it, and just leave it as the appropriate extended test.

Upon item usage though, maybe there should be a modifier to the dice pool; something like a -1 modifier for simple items (homemade knives and simple electronics/explosives <eg homemade noise maker or a bomb made of chlorine and brake fluid>) through to -5 for the more complex items (homemade assault rifles or plastic explosive). Means that the risk is on the user of the item (although if the user is a cybered up troll, the creator would wanna be careful ). This could represent the possible flaws in the item. If its a success or failure, the item worked or it didn't (and remember, just because it didn't work this time, doesn't mean it won't next time). Then you have glitches, where the GM really gets to use his discretion... On a roll which succeeds but glitches, something minor happens (trigger jam, batteries fall out, the explosives are less powerful than expected, or even more powerful than expected). If it is a critical glitch, then there is something major wrong, and the item won't work until looked at (or it is banged against the wall a few times ).

Just some ideas, feel free to modify them to fit

Thanks for your interest and input.

As for the Glitch comment, well, the initial thread information has changed a great deal. Current design is focussing on ready-made, readily available gear and not a system in which players and game masters can generate the gear. So the Glitch concerns are no more.

I do like the dice pool modifier input. It will certainly be something I will consider when I get to how things effect the game.
Thanks again, more input always welcome from everyone.

People need to start taking tennis balls on their runs.
Seriously, think of what a tennis ball is, and think of its uses. They're yellow, bouncy, squeezable, and are easily thrown. The small amount of time it takes a street sam to track a thrown tennis ball across his range of vision is enough to pop out of cover and blow him to hell. Remember, tennis balls are bright yellow...street sams tend to be twitchy (which I've always translated to easily distracted). You can bounce them to make noise. If you throw one down a hall really hard you can really confuse someone with the sounds. You can squeeze (or bounce) a tennis ball for stress relief. In a pinch you can do a quick spray paint job and lob or roll one (yelling grenade), to make a few people take cover. Tennis balls are versitle and essential to a runner's kit 'o' stuff.

Funny you should mention that, I justs started a section for sports equipment last night in my brain storming outline.

start painting your grenades yellow ... so people think they are tennis balls, then are not worried when it rolls down the hall.

They will be concerned that your balls clank. Clanking balls always concern me.