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nezumi
I'm running a game and one of the PCs wants to be a cybersurgeon. I remember reading stats for a doc in one of the SR books, but I can't remember which. That's sort of invalidated by the fact that I'm sure I lost the book anyway.

I DO recollect that he had biotech(surgery) 8(10) or something like, cyberware b/r at 6, and had knowledge skills in physiology, biology, pharmaceuticals and some other things. Does anyone have minimum stats, equipment and cyber for a reasonable doc (illegal or otherwise)? What about for a street clinic doc?

Thanks for the help. I'll probably put whatever is posted together and put it on the SR wiki so I don't have to ask when I forget where I posted this question in a few years.
Tanka
From SR2:

Street Doc
Biological Sciences: 6
Biotech: 8
Etiquette (Street): 3
Negotiation: 4

From Sprawl Sites:

Paramedic
Biotech: 5
Car: 3
Cybertechnology: 1
Firearms: 2
Unarmed Combat: 2

That's all I can find right off the bat.
stevebugge
I always sort of figured it went something like:

1) I took a First Aid Class at the Community Center
2) I got the First Aid Merit Badge in Sprawl Scouts, maybe have a basic certification.
3) I have enough training to work as a Lifguard or Schoolyard Supervisor
4) RN / EMT Level Training (Probably minimum for a Street Doc, but you'd have to be desparate to go there)
5) Nurse Practicioner or Doctor begininning Residency
6) Experienced, skilled doctor.
7) Highly experienced, very skilled doctor at a top clinic.
cool.gif Leader in the medical field
9) Famous, published Research Doctor near the top of his or her field.

For SR/4 Multiply by 2/3 for ratings, combine 1&2 and 3&4 descriptions
nezumi
A 6 in a skill equals a doctorate? 9 years of dedicated training? Not in my game. Does that mean someone with a 6 in electronics has a PhD in electrical engineering (and that that level of skill is what's required to do the things those people do?)

I've found it a bit more reasonable that a 6 is about equal to a bachelor's degree in those technical areas, just because otherwise every shadowrunner ever has a PhD equivalent, which seems a bit of a stretch.
Tanka
QUOTE (stevebugge)
I always sort of figured it went something like:

1) I took a First Aid Class at the Community Center
2) I got the First Aid Merit Badge in Sprawl Scouts, maybe have a basic certification.
3) I have enough training to work as a Lifguard or Schoolyard Supervisor
4) RN / EMT Level Training (Probably minimum for a Street Doc, but you'd have to be desparate to go there)
5) Nurse Practicioner or Doctor begininning Residency
6) Experienced, skilled doctor.
7) Highly experienced, very skilled doctor at a top clinic.
cool.gif Leader in the medical field
9) Famous, published Research Doctor near the top of his or her field.

For SR/4 Multiply by 2/3 for ratings, combine 1&2 and 3&4 descriptions

I usually consider that scaling for Attributes, not skills.

In SR1-3, you can increase your skill rating as much as you want. As long as you've got the karma for it, it's good to go.
Kagetenshi
From SRComp:

Paramedic:

Biotech 5
Car 3
Etiquette 2 (Street 3)
Pistols 2
Unarmed Combat 2
Stealth 3

Knowledge:

Biology 3
Cybertechnology 2
Magic Background 2
Medicine 6

Street Doc:

Biotech 7 (Cybertechnology Implantation 8, Surgery 8)
Etiquette 2 (Street 3, Medical 3)
Negotiation 4
Computer 2 (Cybernetics 5) (Note that this is illegal by canon.)

Knowledge:

Biology 6
Cybertechnology 8
Drugs 6
Medicine 6

~J
nezumi
Thank you! That looks pretty complete. So anything else a legit doc would have that a streetdoc wouldn't? Hospital administration?
Kagetenshi
Drop Negotiation and Street Etiquette, increase Medical Etiquette, add things like hospital administration, medical ethics, and possibly triage, then replace Biotech(Cybertech implantation) with the relevant specialty. It's possible that they might have slightly lower general Biotech with higher specialtiesóless call for jacks-of-all-trades in the legit field.

~J
Method
I believe there was a Cybersurgeon NPC in MrJLBB with more specialized skills.

I am without my books or I would post.
stevebugge
QUOTE (nezumi)
A 6 in a skill equals a doctorate? 9 years of dedicated training? Not in my game. Does that mean someone with a 6 in electronics has a PhD in electrical engineering (and that that level of skill is what's required to do the things those people do?)

I've found it a bit more reasonable that a 6 is about equal to a bachelor's degree in those technical areas, just because otherwise every shadowrunner ever has a PhD equivalent, which seems a bit of a stretch.

No, an MD would have 4's, 5's, and 6's in several skills for the Doctorate. The MD should encompass at a minimum the active skills of Biotech, Ettiquette, Interrogation (probably specialized in getting patients to describe symptoms), plus knowledge skills like Chemistry, Biochemistry, Biology, Phsyiology, Anatomy.

A college degree encompasses a lot more than just a single skill at a proficient or highly proficient level. So while both a PHD and an experienced installer with a technical certificate may have an Electronics skill of 6 for the how to put together an alarm system, the PHD would also have enough knowledge skills to understand how and why said alarm system works. Or in another sense it's the deifference between being able to follow a recipe and actually knowing how to cook.
nezumi
QUOTE (Method)
I believe there was a Cybersurgeon NPC in MrJLBB with more specialized skills.

Oh hey! Thanks for reminding me! I love that book, it still smells new because I never use it...

Docwagon Paramedic:
Athletics 2
Biotech 5 (First aid 7)
Car 5
Etiquette 3 (street 4)
Pistol 2
Anatomy 4
Medicine 3
Pharmacy 4
Physiology 3
Roleplaying Games 3
A bunch of other stuff...

Elite Black Clinic Cybersurgeon
Biotech 5 (cybertechnology implantatnion 10, Srgery 9, transimplant surgery 9)
Computer 3 (Cybernetics 6)
Etiquette 4 (corp 5 medical 6)
Anatomy 5
Cybertech 8
Medicine 9
nanotech 6
pharmacology 7
A bunch of other stuff...

Steve, I would agree with you in theory and based on what the book says. Rating 6 is very rare and quite impressive according to the book. But mechanics-wise, it simply doesn't make sense. Presumably most deckers have a BS or, at most, an MS (like modern day programmers), yet you won't find any with less than 6 in computers. A decker who has less than say 4 is completely useless for more than the most mundane tasks. So, ignoring the other skills you might get during your education (which are not completely relevant to the original question), saying an MD is equivalent to 6 in biotech is like saying it's okay if a doctor botches one out of twenty operations. To reflect the real world, he'll need a higher skill rating, irrelevant as to what the book says should be enough.
stevebugge
Actually depending on how you apply the complementry skill mechanics some or all of those knowledge skills could actually provide more dice than a higher skill rating. Just a simple example would be a Doc with a Biotech 8 using skill only uses 8 dice for an implant test. Using complentary skills a Doc with 6 Biotech and 6 in physiology could use 9 dice for the same test. Of course if you aren't using the complementary skills rule then you're right you have to adjust skill ratings accordingly
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (nezumi @ Dec 27 2005, 03:29 PM)
A decker who has less than say 4 is completely useless for more than the most mundane tasks.

Not remotely true. Decking values gear over skill to such a degree that anything above a 1 can get things done with enough money.

And I think you mean botching one in every 46656 operations.

~J
nezumi
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (nezumi @ Dec 27 2005, 03:29 PM)
A decker who has less than say 4 is completely useless for more than the most mundane tasks.

Not remotely true. Decking values gear over skill to such a degree that anything above a 1 can get things done with enough money.


You'd basically be throwing two dice for every test, one for your skill and one for your hacking pool. Even if your tools reduce everything to TNs of 2 (which means it's already a pretty easy task or it is some pretty hard core equipment), that isn't something I'd put a lot of money on. For things like programming tasks, which is what I was trying to draw a comparison to, computer skill becomes even more important.

QUOTE
And I think you mean botching one in every 46656 operations.


Errr... Yeah. That's what I meant.


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