From what I can see, Smartlink has been made much more "user friendly" in SR4. You no longer require fairly expensive specialized cyberware or special goggles with a cable to your gun. You simply need a low cost (500) addition to the data glasses that you already have or a slightly more expensive addition to your cybereyes. For Police, Military and even the average consumer, smartlink is now a simple and cheap to use system.

If this is the case, who wouldn't want a smartlinked gun and thus why would any firearms manufacturer produce a weapon without smartlink? Looking at the rule book, only a few weapons come with a smartlink system - this makes no sense to me.

The only valid reason for having a non-smartlinked firearm (that I can think of)would be that it was produced before the wireless revolution and has been kicking around the streets for several years.

My opinion is that the +100% weapon cost for retrofitting a smartlink system should be eliminated. All firemarms should have smartlink - some minor modifications to the weapon prices may be required to balance things out.

Any comments or suggestions

because some people don't feel the need for a smartlink.

sure, law enforcement, security, military, etc will have one.

but really, how much does the average person have to actually use their gun to shoot someone?

is it worth 900 to bother with that? because that's how much more it costs to have a smartlink (external). the built-in version naturally depends on the gun.

also, i would expect it's easier to get a license for a gun without smartlink and whatnot (although that is somewhat lost since there are only 2 levels of restriction on items now, that doesn't mean that 2 restricted items are necessarily equally restricted).

i mean, for lack of a better way to put it... why wouldn't you get a gun today with all the add-ons you can get? why would there be such a thing as a rifle without a scope on it? maybe it's because not everyone wants or is able to pay for a gun with a scope on it.

and remember, it's not all that hard to get an external smartlink added to the gun... and unlike most shadowrunners, the average person isn't worried about leaving accessory mounts open for their underbarrel GL or anything like that...

So if you're Joe Somebody looking for a weapon to protect yourself and you have choice between a Colt Manhunter w/o smartlink for 300Y and a Ares Predator for 350Y you're going to pick the Manhunter? I don't think so!

The sales of smartlinked weapons would most likely push dumb firearms out of the market until they were difficult to find.

Rather than a scope on a rifle I think it more like the cable TV. TV's used to be designed to use an antenna. If you wanted cable you have to buy a special converter box - anybody remember those? Now everybody wants to pay for cable (because it so much better) so every TV has a built in cable tuner. I can see the same type of thing happening with smart firearms.

Yeah, I remember thos cable boxes....(for some reason it made me think of my old tv with a dial and uhf channels...heh).

I agree with you, I think most guns would come with it. The guns without should be a minority....

edit--

Think about it this way, as the average citizen, you can choose the predator over manhunter, both close in price. Lets say you have a skill of 2 with pistols, suddenly you doubled your chances to hit! Seems worth it to me. Especially for people who have no firearm skills, it adds a good hunk of chance....

People buying it for self defense are probably going to go with the manhunter look, for the fact that it's a damn intimidating gun.

i would have to agree that the vast majority of guns purchased in the non-private sector (with a few exceptions, probably replica guns, and possibly sport guns for some things... i would expect the purists of any sport that uses guns probably consider anyone who uses cyber or electronic targetting to be a poor marksman)

the predator seems a little underpriced, IMO.

in the sense that it's about 50 more then a taser with an integrated smartlink (which, for the record, is actually the best gun for most people on the streets IMO... taser for the win! 8S electrical damage baby!) sure, lousy range, but not all that bad, and for urban scenarios (ie what these people are at all likely to encounter) it's probably long enough range.

What if it's illegal for Joe Somebody to HAVE a smartlink, because he hasn't gotten the permits for it?

Just because a thing exists doesn't mean a person can have it.

After all, I would very much like a FN Five-seven, because it's an interesting gun, and I like the capacity. The armor penatration factor is nice, but it isn't OMG WTF NO MORE COPS... yet I cannot buy it for precisely that reason.

problem there is lack of granularity.

specifically, smartlinks are not any more restricted than guns.

of course, as i mentioned (or intended to mention, if i didn't) you could houserule in that smartlinks are slightly higher within the restricted rating than guns are, but that would be a houserule.

Well, it takes a little bit of extrapolation, but look at it this way. Most 'standard' pistols (I.E. semi-auto, no high-tech bells and whistles) have an availability of 4R-6R. A smartlink cyberware unit has an availability of 8R. Adding smartlink capacity to goggles, a monocle or contact lenses adds +4R to the base availability of the unit. Adding a smartgun system to a weapon is 4R (external) or 6R (internal) just for the unit itself.

What this says to me is that it probably wouldn't be cost-effective for a manufacturer to add this kind of hardware to guns as standard because of the price the end-user will end up having to pay, as well as the difficulty in aquiring it. The red tape needed to be jumped through is approximately the same for the gun's smart unit and the goggles' smart unit as it is for the gun itself: i.e. background checks, and a need to demonstrate the need or training for a firearm.

It doesn't specifically SAY a smartlink would require dispensation, but I regard it something like a CC license. Not terribly hard to get, but more trouble than the average joe is gonna go through, because the average joe doesn't really need one.

According the rules as printed anybody with a legal SIN can obtain a license for any item with an "R" code (see legality pg 303). "F" items are forbidden. That means that an ordinary citizen could legally own an AK-97 Assault Rifle, a smartlink and many other nasty toys.

One would think that if you're capable of getting a license for a firearm it should be no problem to also get a license to have a smartlink system.

To Adarael: Availability has only to due with the difficulty of obtaining something on the street, not how hard it is for a legal business to come by the item. Any corp could have 500 HMG's delivered in a week if they need them. Also, the cost of having smartlink retrofitted into a gun has little to do with the cost of building it into the original design of a firearm. Air bags add a little to the cost of a new car. Try installing air bags in a car that doesn't have them and see how much it costs.

As for the cost effectiveness it would be similar to power door locks (or AC) on a car. They are more expensive than manual locks, but most people want to pay the extra for the feature, so its not cost effective to make a car without them. I belive you can buy a new car without power locks, but I haven't seen one myself in some time. If most buyers want a feature, it will be standard, even if some people don't or can't use it.

In the case of a firearm, most buyers would want a smartlink and in the field of mass production, the demand of the majority wins.

I would agree that laws could be a good reason for not including smartlink systems, but there is no indication of that in the rules. As Jaid says, it could be a house rule about how restricted certain "R" items are.

because mages carry guns too.

mages can wear smartlink goggles for 450 and gain the exact same benefits as a street samurai with the cyber version of the smartlink.

in fact, the mage can also just buy those goggles and add in several other handy vision enhancements (including an image link to use the smartfgun i suppose... add in another couple hundred iirc).

basically, the only way it makes any sense is if it's harder to get the smartlink than it is to get the gun, or something like that...

when your as good as I am, harsh language will hurt all.

It should be assumed that very few weapons have smartlinks. There really shouldn't be embrace for illegal activities with personal firearms. Obviously, most corporations would rather make the extra money by selling the smartlink to those engaged in criminal acts. However, your average citizen is not thinking about how well they are aiming, but rather the sheer ability to protect themselves. Not all cars come fully loaded. In an sense with airbags and cars, an airbag is a safety feature. Most people are concerned for safety. Statistics show that almost everyone gets into an accident at least once in their life. People are not always getting into firefights at all times. The smartlink to the gun is nothing more than the added stereo system or air conditioning in a car.

Don't forget the "Firearm Enthusiast" section of the populus, who will own over a dozen guns all outfitted with the best stuff money can buy.

It's also wireless enabled and leaves little bitty digital fingerprints everywhere you go. Laser aiming module is also a bonus to hit and doesn't give Big Brother's little Electronic Citizenship Improvement Brigade anything to work with - even if (when) they hack your commlink and take control of it without asking you first.

On the license question...

I was just thinking that if I were the one granting someone a concealed carry permit or even a regular fireams license I have no problem also giving them a license for a piece of equipment that would help them shoot striaght.

Also, I smartlink system is a safty system (like an airbag). It can prevent a crimal from using your gun on you by locking the safety and it can prevent you from hitting the wrong person. In fact, all the non-targeting features of the smartlink should still work for anyone who doesn't have smartlink glasses or cyber. So you get a big bonus for a little bit of extra cash.

If someone told you could buy a regular TV for $300 and a HDTV for $350, which one are you going to buy. You have not use all the features of the HDTV, but I bet you'd buy it.

PS: My airbag example was ment to show that building a weapon with smartlink initially would cost much, much less than adding it as a retrofit.

Don't smartlinks need glasses/goggles/cybereyes to use? Which add at least 500 extra nuyen to the cost of the predator. So 850 vs 350? I can start to see why the average joe wouldn't care to throw it on there..

Plus I always imagined the smartlinks need the interface to work.. The trigger becoming locked up, so jus picking up the gun and trying to fire it wouldn't work.. I imagine it'd be touted as a safety feature as well.. Burglars can't turn the gun on you..

yes, a smartlink need some kind of display. but remeber that so does the comlink. basicly the user can use the same display contacts that he is using to view the sports pages

so if he allready have a comlink and either some sort of display or a sim module then there is no reason not to get a smartlink equiped gun.

still, if i where expecting trouble, i would allso get a non-smartlinked gun, and i would skinlink the smartlink

On Smartlinks and Laser Aiming Devices...

Okay, I will be rather blunt on this, Smartlinks and LADs do not make you shoot more accurately, they mostly make it easier and faster to aim the weapon. The scope and iron sight have nothing to fear from doo-dads and gizmos. I allow the +2 for the smartlink because the weapon system allows more rapid aiming, thus providing a bonus to the shot, but I am thinking about houseruling this out and giving it over as an Initiative Phase bonus in the future (+1 to intitiative for Laser Aiming Devices, +2 for Smartlinks, with an additional +1 die for those who have it cybered in, due to the lack of trigger pull). With pistols, using bifocal shooting I have had shot placement that is bloody fast and very accurate. No smartlink, no laser sight, and I was beating the guy who was using a laser sight.

Also, I can think of two reasons why the common man would forgo smartlinks, the time and money required to train with and maintain them.

In a RL setting they'd probably offer the Manhunter and the Manhunter SL. Or they'd sell the Manhunter and the gun store would have SL's on sale for $99 or $149 installed.

For home defense who is going to boot up the commlink, put on the glasses, and then confront the burglar in their daughters room?

In RL it's much safter to use various types of expensive ammo than regular ball ammo. Yet I'll bet most self-defense guns in peoples bedrooms are loaded with regular ammo instead of Glaser safety ammo because the safety ammo is much more expensive.

I have a red dot scope on my hunting pistol for only $50, but I'm certainly not going to spend $50 each on every gun I own. I assume SL's will be roughly the same. Some dudes wife probably doesn't want him spending the extra 100Y on his expensive toy he'll probably never need.

I have 3 kids and a wife in the house. To me the safety afforded by not penetrating the walls is very important. And if I still lived in an apartment that's another big reason to want them.

But since I have 3 kids I keep it unloaded anyhow. But feeding isn't an issue as I would be using a revolver.

most likely he will be shooting a bit wildly anyways, as even tho one spends hours and hours on the range its a totaly diffrent think when its a other hman being one is about to shoot, and having adrenaline and other stuff going thru the shooter body do not help either.

and unless you hit the heart or the spinal cord (lower parts may imobilize him, upper can lead to a instant kill as the heart no longer get the signal to beat), at best you will do is make the person flinch with pain. and if the person is on drugs or alcohol, he may not even notice that he got shot until some time after he have killed the shooter and maybe some family members to.

ok, so bigger wound channels will lead to more pain and bleeding, and can potentialy make it easyer to hit areas that are vital. but what happens if you overshoot the target totaly?

in many ways a taser is just as good as a pistol for home defense as it will affect the nervous system of the target no matter what. that is as long as it gets clean skin contact. a bullet is more likely to cut thru all that...

so for home defense in sr i would most likely go for a small or holdout with stick and shock ammo

rl? hell if i know...

Currently I live in a very low crime urban environment. If I were to ever feel threatened the gun I would load would probably be my .357mag Colt Python or the .44mag Super Blackhawk. Those are my hunting guns. I don't keep them loaded or even near the ammo right now. But if something were to happen like a threatening phone call or something I could get them ready in about 2 minutes by merely moving the ammo and gun into the same room.

I don't actually own any safety slugs or anything, which is my point that even in SR people aren't likely to own the best, just what's available and cheap. But it's what I'd use if I ever decided I wanted to keep a loaded gun next to my bed.

I have a .40sw Springfield XD also as well as an 8 shot 12ga pump shotgun with a pistol handle (Colt Defender) and a shortened barrel (18in?). The shotgun might be one of my better choices actually. And the destinctive sound of the slide chambering a round is likely to deter nearly anyone.

When/If they pass CCW in Wisconsin I'll take a home defense class. More to exercise my rights than because I think I'd ever need it.

Shotgun rules the home defense playground.

I disagree about smartlinks not helping with shooting for 2 reasons:

1. It's in the Shadowrun rules, heh.

2. You are referring to target shooting. Great you can shoot a target, so can I. So can a lot of the other guys I used to shoot with, and I could shoot at instructer level in my dept. But if you look at the statistics of police firefights here in america you will that a trained instructor level person can expend his entire clip at a person and never even hit. The stress of the moment affects their aim badly, many don't even aim. Having a target designator will allow quick and firm target aqcuisition, and greatly improve anyones combat shot. It may not beat your buddy at the range, but it can really help in at least hitting your target in combat.

And I am wackily confused as to why you would use a 9mm for self defense. Bigger holes==faster bloodloss, less chance for the attacker to shoot back. I prefered My Glock .40 to 9mm just for the simple fact that 9mm wouldn't even knock down the metal targets at my range....

About setting up the commlink when awoken I agree on that. But people don't think that way, they would carry it while walking the street etc. Also, cyber eyes are pretty common on the street in SR4, they have shops that do them like ear piercings...

In a gunfight, especially if you're suprised, it's much easier (and faster) to see a big bright red dot through a paralax-free sight than it is to line up iron sights. Not to mention with the former, you pretty much rule the night in lowlight situations.

You forgot that it pretty much eliminates the possibility of the shooter having a bad sight picture, which along wth trigger press is the biggest threat to your shot not going where it's supposed to.

And of course smartlinks remove the need for a trigger press, which can make a big damn difference in shooting quality. No more flinching or pulling to the left....

The infamous "baja california" shot!

I was actually just referring to the parallax-free reflex sights, but that is a good point you make with regard to smartlinks.

So how is the smartlink better than a laser sight? It just paints your target in your vision, right? I always imagined the cybernetic smartlink as giving the shooter a better intuitive "feel" for the gun in addition to painting the target, like an extension of the shooter's body, which is why the smartgoggles were less effective than the cyber version. But that all goes out the window now you can get them hooked into contact lenses and have no lessened effectiveness.

Given that skinlinking exists, I imagine it'd be the default method of accessing a smartgun. The only gun users who would turn on wireless features on their smartguns would be those who have to as part of their job.

I think anyone who buys a gun for Home Defense keeps it in his cupboard or somewhere and when they need it they won't have time to find the damn glasses with the smartlink and the gun. They will just want to grab the gun and shoot at their 16 year old son who comes home stone drunk from a party because they mistook him for an evil shadowrunner who want's to steal their diary for paydata

Right. Because, y'know, everyone, everywhere, who has a gun for home defense will use it solely to shoot at family members, by accident.

It actually talks about how Smartlinks make the weapon "feel" more responsive.
It also talks about a number of other features, including knowing exactly how much ammo you have left without looking at the ammo counter, including automatic switching of firing modes, including smart target designator (sign up all your family to the PAN, and with the commlink and glasses sitting right on your nightstand, you won't fire in any path that would hit your safe targets, i.e. your family!)

The sheer number of options it allows is so far beyond anything a non SL weapon allows that for 50 you would have to be a fool not to get one.
An absolute fool.

It's like getting a computer without a mouse because the mouse equipped version costs $50 more.
You would have to be retarded.

Especially when you consider that Joe Average home defense user is not the #1 Market for these weapons, it is a fringe market. You are looking at the biggest consumers being security, police and military. All of them have no excuse to ever ever use a non smartlinked weapon, especially with the possibility of safe target systems for everyone in the units and vulnerable areas of the building.