So before our Sunday session I was asked to help a new player twink out the blade-wielding physad she was creating. As it happened I knew relatively little of the magic system, but she needed help with buying skills and such so I was able to help her some. But I wished I'd been able to guide her a little bit better as to which powers to take. My initial assessment was that the temporary boost was better than the permanent boost for abilities, but that the bioware (for sams, not adepts) was better still. And extra IP were hugely expensive, though necessary.
I'm pretty sure I'm missing what the best way to build a PC is, and I couldn't find any threads looking through the archive. So, what's the feeling on this board about it? Always specialize with enhanced ability? Always boost combat sense super high? The PC ended up with only about 10 dice in blades and pre-boosted agility, and I'm afraid that will be insufficient compared to others.
Thanks!
Full Version: Twinking out a PhysAd
The main thing is to be quick. It's easy to be good (10 dices is not bad - a specialist should have a bit more).
But if you are quick with any kind of boosted reflexes, you throw two or three times your 10 dices !!!
for adept and cyber, level 2 is much more interesting than the first one (cost in essence / magic point : 2 / 3 )
after that there is much to say and various possibilities of combination.
get 5 in magic (not 4, not 6 but FIVE)
armor is well interesting for slashers.
race : troll is very interesting too !!!
Taki
As a DM : use karma based or bp based character generation !!!
But if you are quick with any kind of boosted reflexes, you throw two or three times your 10 dices !!!
for adept and cyber, level 2 is much more interesting than the first one (cost in essence / magic point : 2 / 3 )
after that there is much to say and various possibilities of combination.
get 5 in magic (not 4, not 6 but FIVE)
armor is well interesting for slashers.
race : troll is very interesting too !!!
Taki
As a DM : use karma based or bp based character generation !!!
With german errata, the temp boosts suck. For a blade wielder, I would have gone with something along the lines of:
Improved Reflexes level 2 (3pp)
Improved Ability: Blades level 3 (1.5pp)
[Insert any abilities costing no more than .5 Here]
Or, buy a synaptic booster, which kills 1 essence/magic, leaving you with magic 4, but not needing to buy the expensive Improved Reflexes.
Improved Reflexes level 2 (3pp)
Improved Ability: Blades level 3 (1.5pp)
[Insert any abilities costing no more than .5 Here]
Or, buy a synaptic booster, which kills 1 essence/magic, leaving you with magic 4, but not needing to buy the expensive Improved Reflexes.
yeah, if going blades...i'd actually stay human or elf myself, and twink out the agility and initative. Mystic Armor is good to have on the defense, offense, stick to imp. ability, reflexes, etc.
Why should magic 5 be better than 6? Because it costs more BP/point to get to 6?
And why would improved ability be good? It's essentially just spending your rarer magic-resources on a higher skill, which you could buy with normal points. Or am I missing something? By comparison, it's super-cheap to buy four levels of the ware that gets you higher agility. I mean, my face bought that stuff it was so great. With only Agility 3 and Firearms 2 he's throwing 12 dice with a predator; that's more than this combat-focused adept. So I figured I'd built the adept wrong.
There's nothing even vaguely as good in terms of BP cost as Muscle Toner for adepts, so I figured there was a different way to buff them. Or maybe that they needed to have a very specific focus.
Combat sense I can dig, because a high reaction is hard to get, and surprise tests are both common and very annoying, while going first is great and dodging bullets also wonderful. Plus it'll stack with your otherwise boosted stat to insane levels.
But there was nothing that stuck out as making adepts as strong as sams. So I figured I was missing something.
I also don't know how adept powers improve. ISTR that you need to boost your magic stat to get better, which means they're essentially frozen at chargen, since I strongly doubt our game will last for the very high karma levels needed to get a high stat improved. That's a lot worse than just buying them up like with skills.
Thanks!
And why would improved ability be good? It's essentially just spending your rarer magic-resources on a higher skill, which you could buy with normal points. Or am I missing something? By comparison, it's super-cheap to buy four levels of the ware that gets you higher agility. I mean, my face bought that stuff it was so great. With only Agility 3 and Firearms 2 he's throwing 12 dice with a predator; that's more than this combat-focused adept. So I figured I'd built the adept wrong.
There's nothing even vaguely as good in terms of BP cost as Muscle Toner for adepts, so I figured there was a different way to buff them. Or maybe that they needed to have a very specific focus.
Combat sense I can dig, because a high reaction is hard to get, and surprise tests are both common and very annoying, while going first is great and dodging bullets also wonderful. Plus it'll stack with your otherwise boosted stat to insane levels.
But there was nothing that stuck out as making adepts as strong as sams. So I figured I was missing something.
I also don't know how adept powers improve. ISTR that you need to boost your magic stat to get better, which means they're essentially frozen at chargen, since I strongly doubt our game will last for the very high karma levels needed to get a high stat improved. That's a lot worse than just buying them up like with skills.
Thanks!
Step by step twinking for a blades physad.
Metatype.
This choice matters very little to start the game, but the highest agility clearly belongs to the elf, so that would be my choice.
Attributes
Standard advice applies for choosing attributes for a physical character: get four or better in your physical stats if you can afford it. A high intuition and willpower would also be in my thoughts for initiative and stun defense (and magic).
I have to agree with the previous poster that five is the lucky number for magic rating, its much more cost effective to max magic in play.
Skills
You should definitely take blades as a skill and avoid the close combat skill group. The logic being that you cannot specialize from the skill group. and since specializations don't have any negatives this will be something you want to do as soon as you max your skill.
Qualities
Clearly you want the adept quality or the rest of this post is moot. I would also think about the aptitude: blades quality and ambidexterity (more on this later). any other qualities, positive or negative, are up to the player.
Magic choices.
A lot of people get a little disappointed here as there seems to be less return on investment for power point investment versus essence investment. However, it did survive into fourth edition that health spells work better on high essence characters, so you will still be a favorite for your healing magicians efforts. further a lot of cyber is only good in specific situations and it comes with limitations that magic does not face. The trick to choosing good powers is to remember two things: 1) primary attack type, in this case blades and 2) you still have to defend against everything else.
That being said, the following powers should be avoided:
Missile Parry: seems cool, but only has limited use
Critical Strike: This only works for unarmed strikes iirc, but if it does work for weapons hold on to it.
Killing Hands: A waste because unarmed attacks are not your primary attack type.
Social powers: there are two social powers Kinesis and Mimic, both are entirely useless for hitting things with blades.
Must have powers include:
1. Improved Reflexes: To start i would go for level 2 of this power for a total of three ip and +2 initiative or reflexes or whatever.
2. Combat sense: any level of magic spent in this is a good level as it give you extra dice on surprise and extra dice for avoiding both ranged and melee attacks
The beauty of a physical adept is that, once you eliminate useless powers and have your gotta haves, then any other power you add will only help no matter what it is. Starting, I would seriously consider mystic armor as my final addition to the above powers. Save improved ability blades for after you have maxed your skill.
Suggestions on play style.
When the character starts the game, wield only one blade. This should continue until your dice pool for blades is maxed without magical assistance. Then as you gain initiate grades and more magic and power points. work on doubling this dice pool. If you follow the above plan this should begin when your dice pool reaches 14 dice (7 agility + 7 blades). improved attribute as the most expensive would be what I would work on first. This will bring you to 17 dice. Then get that last level of improved reflexes. after that the next power points should go into improved ability blades until you have 20 dice. Then start wielding two weapons. this should mean eight attacks a turn. You can continue initiating and adding improved ability blades as long as you want, but it becomes silly once you reach double dice pool. That would be my method.
Metatype.
This choice matters very little to start the game, but the highest agility clearly belongs to the elf, so that would be my choice.
Attributes
Standard advice applies for choosing attributes for a physical character: get four or better in your physical stats if you can afford it. A high intuition and willpower would also be in my thoughts for initiative and stun defense (and magic).
I have to agree with the previous poster that five is the lucky number for magic rating, its much more cost effective to max magic in play.
Skills
You should definitely take blades as a skill and avoid the close combat skill group. The logic being that you cannot specialize from the skill group. and since specializations don't have any negatives this will be something you want to do as soon as you max your skill.
Qualities
Clearly you want the adept quality or the rest of this post is moot. I would also think about the aptitude: blades quality and ambidexterity (more on this later). any other qualities, positive or negative, are up to the player.
Magic choices.
A lot of people get a little disappointed here as there seems to be less return on investment for power point investment versus essence investment. However, it did survive into fourth edition that health spells work better on high essence characters, so you will still be a favorite for your healing magicians efforts. further a lot of cyber is only good in specific situations and it comes with limitations that magic does not face. The trick to choosing good powers is to remember two things: 1) primary attack type, in this case blades and 2) you still have to defend against everything else.
That being said, the following powers should be avoided:
Missile Parry: seems cool, but only has limited use
Critical Strike: This only works for unarmed strikes iirc, but if it does work for weapons hold on to it.
Killing Hands: A waste because unarmed attacks are not your primary attack type.
Social powers: there are two social powers Kinesis and Mimic, both are entirely useless for hitting things with blades.
Must have powers include:
1. Improved Reflexes: To start i would go for level 2 of this power for a total of three ip and +2 initiative or reflexes or whatever.
2. Combat sense: any level of magic spent in this is a good level as it give you extra dice on surprise and extra dice for avoiding both ranged and melee attacks
The beauty of a physical adept is that, once you eliminate useless powers and have your gotta haves, then any other power you add will only help no matter what it is. Starting, I would seriously consider mystic armor as my final addition to the above powers. Save improved ability blades for after you have maxed your skill.
Suggestions on play style.
When the character starts the game, wield only one blade. This should continue until your dice pool for blades is maxed without magical assistance. Then as you gain initiate grades and more magic and power points. work on doubling this dice pool. If you follow the above plan this should begin when your dice pool reaches 14 dice (7 agility + 7 blades). improved attribute as the most expensive would be what I would work on first. This will bring you to 17 dice. Then get that last level of improved reflexes. after that the next power points should go into improved ability blades until you have 20 dice. Then start wielding two weapons. this should mean eight attacks a turn. You can continue initiating and adding improved ability blades as long as you want, but it becomes silly once you reach double dice pool. That would be my method.
| QUOTE (Gothic Rose) |
| With german errata, the temp boosts suck. For a blade wielder, I would have gone with something along the lines of: Improved Reflexes level 2 (3pp) Improved Ability: Blades level 3 (1.5pp) [Insert any abilities costing no more than .5 Here] Or, buy a synaptic booster, which kills 1 essence/magic, leaving you with magic 4, but not needing to buy the expensive Improved Reflexes. |
That's pretty much how I built KK (version 4.2) except with Blades 2, Mystic Armour 1 & Pistols 1, Gymnastics 2, & Infiltration 2
Burned the extra 25 BPs to get the MA 6
Synaptic Booster costs too much in BPs for resources (17 for level 1) especially if you wish to begin with a Bonded Weapon Focus and any other useful gear like armour with Signature enhancment or Chem/Fire resistance. If she were to burn a point of MA, it would go to Muscle Augmentation to get her strength mod up & possibly some minilmal sense ware like low light, flare comp, & spatial recogniser. Less expensive & more useful.
The SR4 rules make is harder to twink out an adept. Before, Improved Ability was the main thing (with Ambidexterity coming a close second). This was because combat was an opposed dice contest, where initiative passes didn't matter as much (since Combat Pool only refreshed when a new round started), and where you could damage your opponent on their turn or yours.
With SR4, that has changed. With the elimination of SR3 dice pools, and with defenders no longer able to counterattack, getting a decent number of initiative passes is more important. And with Improved Ability limited to improving the base rating to 1.5, you will have more points to spend on it. Also, both Combat Sense and Mystic Armor have been significantly boosted. So one possible build, with 5 Magic points, would be Improved Abilty/Blades: 2 (assuming a skill of 5 and a specialization, that is a total of 9 dice to add to Agility, which I would recommend also be a 5), Improved Reflexes: 2, and either Combat Sense (slightly better, in my opinion) or Mystic Armor at 2.
By the way, another change from SR3 is that adepts can start out with bonded weapon foci. A force: 2 weapon focus costs 20,000 (4 build points) plus 2 more points to bond it - so, for 6 build points, get a force: 2 weapon focus of your primary weapon. Weapon foci add to the dice pool, not the skill, so they aren't affected by the modified skill cap. So with the adept abilities above, that would be a total of 16 dice for melee combat, quite respectable. You could get more, but when you min-max too excessively, you reach a point of diminishing returns fairly quickly.
With SR4, that has changed. With the elimination of SR3 dice pools, and with defenders no longer able to counterattack, getting a decent number of initiative passes is more important. And with Improved Ability limited to improving the base rating to 1.5, you will have more points to spend on it. Also, both Combat Sense and Mystic Armor have been significantly boosted. So one possible build, with 5 Magic points, would be Improved Abilty/Blades: 2 (assuming a skill of 5 and a specialization, that is a total of 9 dice to add to Agility, which I would recommend also be a 5), Improved Reflexes: 2, and either Combat Sense (slightly better, in my opinion) or Mystic Armor at 2.
By the way, another change from SR3 is that adepts can start out with bonded weapon foci. A force: 2 weapon focus costs 20,000 (4 build points) plus 2 more points to bond it - so, for 6 build points, get a force: 2 weapon focus of your primary weapon. Weapon foci add to the dice pool, not the skill, so they aren't affected by the modified skill cap. So with the adept abilities above, that would be a total of 16 dice for melee combat, quite respectable. You could get more, but when you min-max too excessively, you reach a point of diminishing returns fairly quickly.
Pheh. I wouldn't care about the German Errata until it comes out in English.
Get Agility 5(+racial bonus, if applicable), Strength 5(+racial bonus, if applicable), Blades 6, Magic 6, IA: Blades 6, Improved Reflexes 1, and Attribute Boost (all physical attributes) 1. You'll be able to soak the drain on the Attribute Boost with ease, and the book doesn't state what sort of action activating it is, so we'll assume that it's nothing noticable. On an average test, it'll boost your attributes up 2 points for a fraction of the price of similar cyber, bio, or magic. Then go and pick up a nice cocktail of Jazz and Cram to boost your IPs up to the maximum of 4.
Buy a Force 2 monosword weapon focus, and bond it. When you use it, you'll be throwing out 7 Agility+6 skill+6 IA+2 weapon focus+2 reach, for a grand total of 23 dice (and 7.6 (repeating) hits, and you'll deal 7P damage before you start staging it up. When you consider that most enemies will be rolling 12 dice to resist at most, you'll be able to take down almost anyone in one go.
Get Agility 5(+racial bonus, if applicable), Strength 5(+racial bonus, if applicable), Blades 6, Magic 6, IA: Blades 6, Improved Reflexes 1, and Attribute Boost (all physical attributes) 1. You'll be able to soak the drain on the Attribute Boost with ease, and the book doesn't state what sort of action activating it is, so we'll assume that it's nothing noticable. On an average test, it'll boost your attributes up 2 points for a fraction of the price of similar cyber, bio, or magic. Then go and pick up a nice cocktail of Jazz and Cram to boost your IPs up to the maximum of 4.
Buy a Force 2 monosword weapon focus, and bond it. When you use it, you'll be throwing out 7 Agility+6 skill+6 IA+2 weapon focus+2 reach, for a grand total of 23 dice (and 7.6 (repeating) hits, and you'll deal 7P damage before you start staging it up. When you consider that most enemies will be rolling 12 dice to resist at most, you'll be able to take down almost anyone in one go.
Actually get two force one foci, a knife (short concelable) and then a blade with reach.
Second, for a contact put a adept that's able to make fusion foci and has ties to a initiation group.
Second, for a contact put a adept that's able to make fusion foci and has ties to a initiation group.
It's out in english.
Errata version 1.3, on the fanpro site.
Errata version 1.3, on the fanpro site.
| QUOTE (Chiaroscuro23) |
| By comparison, it's super-cheap to buy four levels of the ware that gets you higher agility. |
Watch the availability on this stuff. I'm pretty sure you can only get two levels of any of the attribute increasing 'ware at character generation.
as soon as i get my book or the source books needed, i wasnt to make a
Physical combat technomancer mage.
Physical combat technomancer mage.
| QUOTE (Chandon) | ||
Watch the availability on this stuff. I'm pretty sure you can only get two levels of any of the attribute increasing 'ware at character generation. |
I'm pretty sure we didn't bother with these rules at chargen. They seem pretty strange, really, and I'm not sure I see the point. Then again, presumably you won't play most characters long enough to get past the starting level, so why have parts of the game only available later? So, yeah, I think that availability wasn't an issue. That may affect game balance, surely. But frankly, I'm glad we didn't have to worry about yet another thing, when SR chargen already takes hours upon hours.
Still, thanks for pointing it out, as that'll matter for other people's games!
-C.
| QUOTE (Mr.Platinum) |
| as soon as i get my book or the source books needed, i wasnt to make a Physical combat technomancer mage. |
Bubble-bursting time. Technomancer and Magic are mutually exclusive.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Jan 4 2006, 04:18 PM) | ||
Bubble-bursting time. Technomancer and Magic are mutually exclusive. |
yeah i'm still waiting for my copy of SR4 to come on in.
** puts head down in shame.**
| QUOTE (Mr.Platinum) | ||||
yeah i'm still waiting for my copy of SR4 to come on in. ** puts head down in shame.** |
But chin-up, you can still make a spell-casting physical combat adept with magic-enhanced hacking powers.
I don't allow imp ability to affect matrix actions =p
Programming yes, in matrix actions no, (not even ar)
Programming yes, in matrix actions no, (not even ar)
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) | ||
Bubble-bursting time. Technomancer and Magic are mutually exclusive. |
Which makes me wonder what happens if a technomancer gets infected by a vampire...
Hey, freelancers! There's an idea of something to do when you're working on Unwired.
| QUOTE (Liper) |
| I don't allow imp ability to affect matrix actions =p Programming yes, in matrix actions no, (not even ar) |
Any particular reasoning behind that, beyond GM prerogative?
He certainly has no RAW to back that up.
No RAW from this edition to back it up. According to the SR3 FAQs, adepts with Improved Ability (vehicle skill) can't use it while rigging. There's probably the same idea here.
| QUOTE (Liper) |
| Programming yes, in matrix actions no, (not even ar) |
Well, that's strange, since programming is probably done in an AR-enhanced environment.
It is even stranger, since AR matrix initiative relies on the physical initiative, so that a sam with wired 3 has more passes than a hacker in hot-sim VR. And since Improved Reflexes also happens to increase the physical initiative, we already have a precendent of an adept power assisting in AR.
| QUOTE (nick012000) |
| No RAW from this edition to back it up. According to the SR3 FAQs, adepts with Improved Ability (vehicle skill) can't use it while rigging. There's probably the same idea here. |
Well a rigger jumped into a drone uses his own attributes and skills while handling it (p.239).
A look at the description of Wired Reflexes (p.335) and the Synaptic Booster (p.340) gives me an impression that both of those modifications are primarily in the brain. Plus (as for yet) no rule is found, which says, that a rigger can't use the boni from other cyberware while jumped into a drone.
So while the rigger is jumped into a drone, he pilots the drone with his Reaction attribute and his Pilot Skill.
If he has a Synaptic Booster (or Wired Reflexes) installed, they don't help with his VR-initiative, but they sure boost his Reaction attribute helping him piloting his drone.
So does Improved Reflexes, btw. So we have an adept power assisting in a VR matrix action.
So Improved Ability should, IMHO of course, assist in matrix actions, no matter the type.
Darkness you're so silly, and let me show you why.
| QUOTE |
| It is even stranger, since AR matrix initiative relies on the physical initiative, so that a sam with wired 3 has more passes than a hacker in hot-sim VR. |
This is just me, but it only says you use your regular meat body speeds, using your characters standard reaction and initiative. (note it doesn't say Enhanced reaction and initiative)
Second, unless you're a technomancer, how fast the matrix responds to your commands it based off your commlinks response attribute, so there's another area that seems a bit shakey.
Secondly, wired reflexes affect "neural boosters, adrenalin stimulators, etc" doesn't say it just gets the mind jazzed up.
If you'll note, when you jump into a drone, you are always using full-VR which means things that affect your physical intiative are bunk to begin with.
| QUOTE |
| If he has a Synaptic Booster (or Wired Reflexes) installed, they don't help with his VR-initiative, but they sure boost his Reaction attribute helping him piloting his drone. |
I can kind of see where you're going on this, but again, these reaction enchancments are over the whole body, not the mind, or just the mind. If you read synaptic booster it stats the never cells along the spinal cord, which is far lower then where the datajack is connected to. is lengthened.
The only real references I have for saying the magic not applying in VR is only what past editions have said about it and the whole flavor of magic on the PC level, since the current doesn't have it in it.
Check out the other thread
Adepts and Hackers
FYI, my house rule is that matrix passes are dependant on access, not user.
It is in the second page, but it is a house rule.
Adepts and Hackers
FYI, my house rule is that matrix passes are dependant on access, not user.
It is in the second page, but it is a house rule.
| QUOTE (Liper) |
| Darkness you're so silly, and let me show you why. |
No, i'm not. *pouts and stomps his foot*
| QUOTE (Liper) |
This is just me, but it only says you use your regular meat body speeds, using your characters standard reaction and initiative. (note it doesn't say Enhanced reaction and initiative) |
Actually Augmented Initiative (p.230) refers you to Initiative (p. 132). On this page the words "Enhanced reaction" aren't found either, it's always just Reaction + Initiative.
If it were true, what you're saying, a sam couldn't use his enhanced reaction in a normal gunfight either.
Since i assume that we both agree, that a sam can do that, he can use the matrix in AR with the same "speed". Don't forget, that AR is nothing more than some windows or data displayed in your field of vision (like a HUD). You are in no special state so far.
| QUOTE (Liper) |
| Second, unless you're a technomancer, how fast the matrix responds to your commands it based off your commlinks response attribute, so there's another area that seems a bit shakey. |
Are we talking AR or VR? If we're talking VR, then you're right. AR is based on your meat body initiative.
| QUOTE (Liper) |
| Secondly, wired reflexes affect "neural boosters, adrenalin stimulators, etc" doesn't say it just gets the mind jazzed up. |
Exactly. Neural Boosters fire up your brain, so that you see perceive everything to be slower (p.335) and adrenalin stimulators allow for your body to follow the new speed of your brain.
| QUOTE (Liper) |
| If you'll note, when you jump into a drone, you are always using full-VR which means things that affect your physical intiative are bunk to begin with. |
Yes. And i never said anything in this direction actually. I never mentioned, or intended to imply, that those boosters help with full VR-Initiative. Actually they don't.
| QUOTE (Liper) | ||
I can kind of see where you're going on this, but again, these reaction enchancments are over the whole body, not the mind, or just the mind. If you read synaptic booster it stats the never cells along the spinal cord, which is far lower then where the datajack is connected to. is lengthened. The only real references I have for saying the magic not applying in VR is only what past editions have said about it and the whole flavor of magic on the PC level, since the current doesn't have it in it. |
For previous editions, i would have agreed with you. But not so in SR4. The descriptions changed, and the way some things are handled changed too.
So far, i don't see a piece of rule, that dissallows this.
The way I see it, and it would be supported by the spirit of things, that when it says "use your physical reaction and initative as normal" that means without cyber/magic enchancments, since those wouldn't have any real bearing on matrix or your ability to respond compared to bieng fully in the matrix running on hot dni.
| QUOTE |
| Exactly. Neural Boosters fire up your brain, so that you see perceive everything to be slower (p.335) and adrenalin stimulators allow for your body to follow the new speed of your brain. |
Affect how fast your body responds to your brains signals, there's nothing that makes you think faster lol.
You think any of this reaction enhancing stuff increases the ability of the brain to process information or give signals out? no it accelerates how fast the body can respond to it.
Both is open to interpretation IMHO. But i don't think we will come to terms on this.
Physical Adept Combat Twinkery
Elf (30)
Qualities (20) - Adept, Ambidextrous, Aptitude Blades
Drawbacks (15) - Sensitive System
Attributes (210) - Body 4, Agility 6, Reaction 3, Strength 4, Charisma 3, Intuition 3, Logic 3, Willpower 3, Edge 1, Magic 5
Skills (70) - Blades(swords) 4, Dodge(melee) 4, Perception 1, Etiquette 1, Pilot Ground Craft(bikes) 1, Skill Group Athletics 1, Skill Group Stealth 1
Gear (42) - Suzuki Mirage Racing Bike, Auctioneer Business Clothes, Armor Jacket, Metalink with Vector Xim, Subvocal Microphone, Fake SIN rating 4, Fake License Weapon Foci rating 4, Glasses with image link and ultrasound, Gas Mask, Basic DocWagon, Lightstick x 5, Middle Lifestyle x 2, Synaptic Booster rating 2
Foci (2) - Katana Weapon Foci rating 2
This leaves 31 build points on a 400 point build for the person to customize with. Need contacts and clothes mainly.
Physical Adept Powers (4 points spent, as one was lost due to the bioware, make sure the character reflects then when writing down the above stats as I put the purchased magic attribute above) - Astral Perception, Flare Compensation, Thermographic Vision, Combat Sense rating 2, Mystic Armor rating 3
This gives your phys ad a dice pool of 14 when attacking or defending with her weapon. Dice pool of 7 when defending against ranged attacks.
Armor of 8/6 when in her suit, and 11/9 when in the armor jacket.
Competitive starting with room to grow. Priority will be rasing Blades, topping Agility, raising Reaction/Body/Strength, then initiation and raising Magic. Pretty much in that order for me, but everyone has their own way of doing things.
Also wouldn't be a bad idea for this character to pick up a higher rated Fake SIN, Fake License, and get the groups decker to upgrade the commlink. Also availability/money permitting higher rated weapon foci are always a good thing.
Also due to astral perception and weapon foci is able to fight spirits as well, and the weapon foci allow fighting of regenerating beasties. Coupled with flare comps, and thermographic vision along with racial low light vision, and the ultrasound in the glasses is able to fight in any lighting enviroment.
Elf (30)
Qualities (20) - Adept, Ambidextrous, Aptitude Blades
Drawbacks (15) - Sensitive System
Attributes (210) - Body 4, Agility 6, Reaction 3, Strength 4, Charisma 3, Intuition 3, Logic 3, Willpower 3, Edge 1, Magic 5
Skills (70) - Blades(swords) 4, Dodge(melee) 4, Perception 1, Etiquette 1, Pilot Ground Craft(bikes) 1, Skill Group Athletics 1, Skill Group Stealth 1
Gear (42) - Suzuki Mirage Racing Bike, Auctioneer Business Clothes, Armor Jacket, Metalink with Vector Xim, Subvocal Microphone, Fake SIN rating 4, Fake License Weapon Foci rating 4, Glasses with image link and ultrasound, Gas Mask, Basic DocWagon, Lightstick x 5, Middle Lifestyle x 2, Synaptic Booster rating 2
Foci (2) - Katana Weapon Foci rating 2
This leaves 31 build points on a 400 point build for the person to customize with. Need contacts and clothes mainly.
Physical Adept Powers (4 points spent, as one was lost due to the bioware, make sure the character reflects then when writing down the above stats as I put the purchased magic attribute above) - Astral Perception, Flare Compensation, Thermographic Vision, Combat Sense rating 2, Mystic Armor rating 3
This gives your phys ad a dice pool of 14 when attacking or defending with her weapon. Dice pool of 7 when defending against ranged attacks.
Armor of 8/6 when in her suit, and 11/9 when in the armor jacket.
Competitive starting with room to grow. Priority will be rasing Blades, topping Agility, raising Reaction/Body/Strength, then initiation and raising Magic. Pretty much in that order for me, but everyone has their own way of doing things.
Also wouldn't be a bad idea for this character to pick up a higher rated Fake SIN, Fake License, and get the groups decker to upgrade the commlink. Also availability/money permitting higher rated weapon foci are always a good thing.
Also due to astral perception and weapon foci is able to fight spirits as well, and the weapon foci allow fighting of regenerating beasties. Coupled with flare comps, and thermographic vision along with racial low light vision, and the ultrasound in the glasses is able to fight in any lighting enviroment.
That is so not twinked out, thats pretty normal...
I would lose the strength of four, your damage will be the same if it is 3, and put that extra point into reaction. I would also lose the ambidextrous ability, and the apditute (I think you can buy that later, in-game.) or actaully put my blades skill to 7 a tthe start...seems odd to pay the bp for apditude and only have a 4 in blades....
For that matter, the only combat skill you have is blades....this character is screwed without his weapon....I try to always put in unarmed combat, because that covers your ass. If this was my character, I would also pick a ranged combat skill to help him out, there are sometimes (most) that you are way better off shooting that going melee...So even if you are built for melee, there will be times when you need to shoot somebody...
I would also lose astral vision, it costs too much for what it does. It may be a concept thing for you, but you can't really call that twinking out a physad....I would definately lose the flare comp and thermo (you can get by pretty good with the elf's natural lowlight, and if you want flare comp, then why not get shades or something with them?)
Throw the regained points into combat sense or atribute boost for agility...
Just my opinion...
I would lose the strength of four, your damage will be the same if it is 3, and put that extra point into reaction. I would also lose the ambidextrous ability, and the apditute (I think you can buy that later, in-game.) or actaully put my blades skill to 7 a tthe start...seems odd to pay the bp for apditude and only have a 4 in blades....
For that matter, the only combat skill you have is blades....this character is screwed without his weapon....I try to always put in unarmed combat, because that covers your ass. If this was my character, I would also pick a ranged combat skill to help him out, there are sometimes (most) that you are way better off shooting that going melee...So even if you are built for melee, there will be times when you need to shoot somebody...
I would also lose astral vision, it costs too much for what it does. It may be a concept thing for you, but you can't really call that twinking out a physad....I would definately lose the flare comp and thermo (you can get by pretty good with the elf's natural lowlight, and if you want flare comp, then why not get shades or something with them?)
Throw the regained points into combat sense or atribute boost for agility...
Just my opinion...
Human Mystic Adept : Sentinel
Intuition: 6
Perception: 6
Imp.Ability: Perception: 6
Imp. Perception: 6
Improved Senses
Now we have the guy/girl who sees EVERYTHING. Nothing escapes his notice with a silly amount of 24 dice for perception, or 26 with specialization or even more with enhanced senses mimicking cyberware.
Yes, it’s a bit extreme but would make one fun detective who never misses a clue.
Intuition: 6
Perception: 6
Imp.Ability: Perception: 6
Imp. Perception: 6
Improved Senses
Now we have the guy/girl who sees EVERYTHING. Nothing escapes his notice with a silly amount of 24 dice for perception, or 26 with specialization or even more with enhanced senses mimicking cyberware.
Yes, it’s a bit extreme but would make one fun detective who never misses a clue.
| QUOTE (The Jopp) |
| Now we have the guy/girl who sees EVERYTHING. Nothing escapes his notice with a silly amount of 24 dice for perception, or 26 with specialization or even more with enhanced senses mimicking cyberware. |
"Oh, look, here are the trio of bullets from a three-round burst that's going to kill me. I wish I had some combat skills."
| QUOTE (Azralon) | ||
"Oh, look, here are the trio of bullets from a three-round burst that's going to kill me. I wish I had some combat skills." |
Priceless, pure comedy gold.
i'd steer clear of the dual-katana build. The ambidexterity rules only help with guns, and there are no rules for two-weapon melee. Moreover, a katana is a two-handed weapon.
Elf 30 bp
195 bp
B 3
A 7+1
R 5
S 3
C 1+2
I 2
L 2
W 3
Edge 1
Magic 6 65 bp
Adept 5 bp
Aptitude Blades 10 bp
Exceptional Attribute (Agility) 20 bp
Skills
Blades (swords) 7+2 34 bp
Cash 5 bp
25 000 (21 000 for the force 2 katana focus)
Bonding Cost 2 bp
That’s 366 points. The rest go to more skills, cash and contacts. We now have a completely twinked out swordsman who is an otherwise worthless being. You may wish to grab some negative qualities to squeeze some more points out.
Powers
Improved Reflexes
Combat Sense III
Improved Blades III
Alternately, replace Imp. Blades with more combat sense. The sad truth is that every action you spend trying to close with the enemys more chances for them to shoot at you.
Or drop Imp. Blades down to one and up the Imp. Reflexes. Since reflexes adds to reaction as well, that's a total of 5 extra dice to defend with and you have 3 IPs.
Elf 30 bp
195 bp
B 3
A 7+1
R 5
S 3
C 1+2
I 2
L 2
W 3
Edge 1
Magic 6 65 bp
Adept 5 bp
Aptitude Blades 10 bp
Exceptional Attribute (Agility) 20 bp
Skills
Blades (swords) 7+2 34 bp
Cash 5 bp
25 000 (21 000 for the force 2 katana focus)
Bonding Cost 2 bp
That’s 366 points. The rest go to more skills, cash and contacts. We now have a completely twinked out swordsman who is an otherwise worthless being. You may wish to grab some negative qualities to squeeze some more points out.
Powers
Improved Reflexes
Combat Sense III
Improved Blades III
Alternately, replace Imp. Blades with more combat sense. The sad truth is that every action you spend trying to close with the enemys more chances for them to shoot at you.
Or drop Imp. Blades down to one and up the Imp. Reflexes. Since reflexes adds to reaction as well, that's a total of 5 extra dice to defend with and you have 3 IPs.
| QUOTE (Space Ghost) |
| Moreover, a katana is a two-handed weapon. |
Ever heard of Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Ginshen? He'd beg to differ
i'm not sure what that means, but SR katanas are not just katanas. For instance, you'll note that the concealability table shows that a katana is less concealable than a sword. Now, a real katana is like 100 to 115 cm from tip to butt, right? It's pretty sleek, too. No big ass cruciform hilt or anything. So how is it that a "sword" is more concealable than this SR "katana"? Answer: SR katanas are probably oversized, two-handed, anime-inspired katanas.
| QUOTE (Azralon) | ||
"Oh, look, here are the trio of bullets from a three-round burst that's going to kill me. I wish I had some combat skills." |
Oh, I agree, to a point.
The example is extreme when it comes to maxing out a skill/attribute but adepts can be much, much more than just combat oriented – And I would still have points to get Longarms (Shotguns) & Pistols (Semi-Automatic at 1(+2) for measly 12 points total.Remember, average joe has a skill of 0 (which means they default with 2D6) and a dedicated PROFESSIONAL has a skill of 3 (6D6 total). So someone who is not entirely combat oriented can still be quite lethal with 8D6 (including smartlink) and an average dodge skill.
The “Radar” adept is just one extreme version like the social adept or technical adept or the athletics jumping jack adept.
EDIT
If I lower his attribute and perception skill to 5 I still roll 20D6 in perception at a cost of 2,5 power points out of 6 and have general combat skills and attributes at 3, and astral perception as a mystic adept. Then we add some astral combat skill and give him enough cash to give him some small spy drones to carry around.
Now I still have 3,5 power points for some general enhanced senses and perhaps mystic armour.
| QUOTE (Squinky) |
| That is so not twinked out, thats pretty normal... I would lose the strength of four, your damage will be the same if it is 3, and put that extra point into reaction. I would also lose the ambidextrous ability, and the apditute (I think you can buy that later, in-game.) or actaully put my blades skill to 7 a tthe start...seems odd to pay the bp for apditude and only have a 4 in blades.... For that matter, the only combat skill you have is blades....this character is screwed without his weapon....I try to always put in unarmed combat, because that covers your ass. If this was my character, I would also pick a ranged combat skill to help him out, there are sometimes (most) that you are way better off shooting that going melee...So even if you are built for melee, there will be times when you need to shoot somebody... I would also lose astral vision, it costs too much for what it does. It may be a concept thing for you, but you can't really call that twinking out a physad....I would definately lose the flare comp and thermo (you can get by pretty good with the elf's natural lowlight, and if you want flare comp, then why not get shades or something with them?) Throw the regained points into combat sense or atribute boost for agility... Just my opinion... |
You did read the deal about leaving points for customization? So there are extra points there for whatever skills you might want. Also for why to take aptitude. It says that a GM can choose to award the quality. Well what if they are playing in a game where the GM doesn't award qualities? Then they never have access to it. Better to take it now and be sure.
As for why take astral perception. Generally a phys ad is not going to be the only combat person in a group. You will either have another phys ad, or a cyber. Therefore you want a mystic warrior to combat the mystic threats, ie spirits. This is alot more useful with a weapon foci and astral perception. Leaving the cyber to take the various things that go bang.
Ambidexterity is there as a, "you never know" thing. Perhaps an arm gets disabled, perhaps further into the story the character picks up a second weapon foci, etc. Also it is specifically stated that you cannot be awarded ambidexterity.
Flare compensation is in the build because it is amazing how often it comes up, at least in our games. Flash bangs, and flash paks are pretty common to run into when dealing with security or police that want you alive for prosecution. I mean who doesn't want to give the other side a four point penalty. The thermographic vision is there because it gives better bonuses in some situations than low light vision. Plus since they are powers you can't have them knocked off, or hacked.
This leaves your phys ad capable of dealing with nearly any situation that you will find yourself. Also versatility is a good thing. That is what the extra abilities give you. Plus I will admit that alot of my choices are heavily influenced by the games I play in. When your GM's have a fun habit of sending all sorts of weird para-critters, and spirits it is helpful to be able to do something.
Also on the note about blades being at 4. While yes you could max it out, that leaves nothing for the characters advancement. I mean seeing as there are very few savants in the world that have mastered their particular thing at 18 or so. Thus it doesn't make sense for a beginning character to start with maxed out skills. While yes this isn't twinking the character out for max dice pools starting out. It does twink the character out to be able to react in a variety of situations and still leave some room for roleplaying.
Here's my "Normal Physical Adept":
He's a round up guy, I think. I prefer hth combat (it's difficult to have to carry a Katana wherever you go
)...
Human Physical Adept
Attributes 210 BP
Bod 4
Agi 4
Rea 4(7)
Str 4
Cha 2
Int 4
Log 3
Wil 4
Ini 8(11)
Edge: 4 (30 BP)
Magic: 5 (40 BP)
Qualities: (30 BP)
Adept
Ambidextrous
Quick Healer
Thougness)
Negative Qualities: (+ 35 BP)
SINner, Incompetent (Electronic Warfare, Hacking, Hardware, Software, Pilot Antiroform, Pilot Aerospace)
Adept Powers: [5PP]
Combat Sense L2
Critical Strike L2
Killing Hands
Improved Reflexes L1
Mystic Armor L2
Contacts: (17 BP)
Fixer (Rating 4/ Loyalty 2)
Lone Star Detective (Rating 4/ Loyalty 3)
Hacker (Rating 3/ Loyalty 1)
Skills: (Total 105 BP)
Outdoors Skill Group 1 (Navigation, Survival, Tracking)
Athletics Skill Group 1 (Climbing, Gymnastics, Running, Swimming)
Dodge 1
Pistols 3
Long Arms 2
Armed Combat 2
Unarmed Combat 4
Infiltration 2
Shadowing 2
Etiquette 1
Negotiation 1
Pilot Ground Craft 1
Perception 2
Knowledge Skills: (22/21 free +1BP)
Para-zoology 2
Gang ID 2
Crooks Hangouts 2
Lone Star Procedures 2
Weird Experimental Music 1
Combat Biking 1
Urban Brawl 0
Languages: (free)
English N
Spanish 1
Gear: 3 BP (2,150Y left)
Survival Knife
Shock Gloves (2)
Viper Sliver Gun Laser Sight
Colt Manhunter silencer
Ammo: 640Y
Contact Lenses (Flare Compensation, Low Light)
Armor Jacket
Commlink
Concealed Holster (x2)
Spare Clips
Respirator (R6)
Low Lifestyle
Suzuki Mirage
Maybe some earbuds with Dampener
Maybe I'll take one Edge point and round things up a little bit
What do you think?
He's a round up guy, I think. I prefer hth combat (it's difficult to have to carry a Katana wherever you go
)...Human Physical Adept
Attributes 210 BP
Bod 4
Agi 4
Rea 4(7)
Str 4
Cha 2
Int 4
Log 3
Wil 4
Ini 8(11)
Edge: 4 (30 BP)
Magic: 5 (40 BP)
Qualities: (30 BP)
Adept
Ambidextrous
Quick Healer
Thougness)
Negative Qualities: (+ 35 BP)
SINner, Incompetent (Electronic Warfare, Hacking, Hardware, Software, Pilot Antiroform, Pilot Aerospace)
Adept Powers: [5PP]
Combat Sense L2
Critical Strike L2
Killing Hands
Improved Reflexes L1
Mystic Armor L2
Contacts: (17 BP)
Fixer (Rating 4/ Loyalty 2)
Lone Star Detective (Rating 4/ Loyalty 3)
Hacker (Rating 3/ Loyalty 1)
Skills: (Total 105 BP)
Outdoors Skill Group 1 (Navigation, Survival, Tracking)
Athletics Skill Group 1 (Climbing, Gymnastics, Running, Swimming)
Dodge 1
Pistols 3
Long Arms 2
Armed Combat 2
Unarmed Combat 4
Infiltration 2
Shadowing 2
Etiquette 1
Negotiation 1
Pilot Ground Craft 1
Perception 2
Knowledge Skills: (22/21 free +1BP)
Para-zoology 2
Gang ID 2
Crooks Hangouts 2
Lone Star Procedures 2
Weird Experimental Music 1
Combat Biking 1
Urban Brawl 0
Languages: (free)
English N
Spanish 1
Gear: 3 BP (2,150Y left)
Survival Knife
Shock Gloves (2)
Viper Sliver Gun Laser Sight
Colt Manhunter silencer
Ammo: 640Y
Contact Lenses (Flare Compensation, Low Light)
Armor Jacket
Commlink
Concealed Holster (x2)
Spare Clips
Respirator (R6)
Low Lifestyle
Suzuki Mirage
Maybe some earbuds with Dampener
Maybe I'll take one Edge point and round things up a little bit
What do you think?
| QUOTE (The Jopp) |
| Human Mystic Adept : Sentinel Intuition: 6 Perception: 6 Imp.Ability: Perception: 6 Imp. Perception: 6 Improved Senses |
Errata 1.3:
"p. 187 Improved Ability
The fi rst paragraph should read:
“This power increases the rating of a specific Active skill
by 1 per level. A skill’s maximum modified rating equals its base
rating x 1.5. Improved ability must be purchased for a specific
skill, not a skill group.”
So you'd have to lower Imp Ability Perception to a 3.
milspec
| QUOTE (Space Ghost @ Jan 30 2006, 08:07 PM) |
| i'm not sure what that means, but SR katanas are not just katanas. {...} Answer: SR katanas are probably oversized, two-handed, anime-inspired katanas. |
I'll give you that the description says, "this two handed weapon", so you're right in that regard.
The issue is that the katana is more of a hand-and-a-half sword than a true two handed sword. You can wield it two handed, but you don't have to. What you're describing is a No-Daichi, which really is a two handed sword (iirc, the weapon used by Kikuchiyo in Seven Samurai -- if you see a still from that movie, you can see the difference in size).
The name I referenced is the formal title of Miyamoto Musashi, a famous (the famous, really) Japanese swordsman who originated the Twin Heavens school of swordplay wherein the katana is wielded in one hand and the wakizashi is wielded in the off-hand.
------
And as far as comparing concealability goes, that doesn't necessarily imply that the Katana is larger; it could very easily imply that the sword is smaller, ala gladius or machete (as mentioned in SR4)
| QUOTE (Vaevictis @ Jan 30 2006, 07:09 PM) |
| Ever heard of Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Ginshen? |
In fact, Shinny still owes me twenty bucks. The bum.
| QUOTE (Vaevictis) |
| The issue is that the katana is more of a hand-and-a-half sword than a true two handed sword. You can wield it two handed, but you don't have to. |
A simple solution is to use the stats for the katana when the blade is wielded two-handed and the stats for the sword when it's used one-handed. It makes no sense that it should do the same damage with one hand as with two.
| QUOTE | ||
Errata 1.3: "p. 187 Improved Ability The fi rst paragraph should read: “This power increases the rating of a specific Active skill by 1 per level. A skill’s maximum modified rating equals its base rating x 1.5. Improved ability must be purchased for a specific skill, not a skill group.” So you'd have to lower Imp Ability Perception to a 3. milspec |
Enhanced Perception is only limited by Intuition – it is not the Improved Ability power, so that one can be as high a the attribute and adds it’s dice to perception TESTS, not skill. It only creates a modified rating due to bonus dice.
Improved ABILITY can be improved X1,5 the BASE rating of a skill, perception is a skill and if it starts at 5 in this case it would be 5X1,5 which is 7,5 – in this case I improved it by 5.
Thus, Perception test in this case would be 20D6
Only the Improved Ability goes against the modified skill limit, not Enhanced Perception.
There is no problem in beginning the game with 20D6 for perception, except for the silliness of it.
The max of the imporved ability is 1.5X the normal ability, so, for example, you could get three levels of imporved ability on a skill of 6, making the total ability 9.
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| The max of the imporved ability is 1.5X the normal ability, so, for example, you could get three levels of imporved ability on a skill of 6, making the total ability 9. |
Is that how it is supposed to be interpreted? I read it that the Improved Ability may not be higher than base skill X1,5 (6X1,5) - not that the TOTAL of skill+improvement is X1,5
| QUOTE (Errata) |
| A skill’s maximum modified rating equals its base rating x 1.5. |
--Emphasis mine
It's the skill's modified rating that can't be higher than 1.5* Base Rating. It's quite clearly written.
So a skill with a base rating of 5 can only be increased to having a modified rating of 7 by this power.
Yup. That's how things are now. Many people are lamenting for the old days when an adept could double his dice before adding combat pool. Now they can get, at most, three extra dice. Even with an Aptitude because you round down.
Bah! Skill cap is a silly concept, especially on an adepts magical power, that's the entire point with it, it's "magic".
So the maximum perception one can have on an adept (without any bells and whistles from qualities) would be 21 (9+3+6+6)
And then one can use up a point of bioware by adding +1 to perception and gain 22 dice.
So the maximum perception one can have on an adept (without any bells and whistles from qualities) would be 21 (9+3+6+6)
And then one can use up a point of bioware by adding +1 to perception and gain 22 dice.
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