From what little I have read (and you guys seem to have far more books than I do), Move-By-Wire is the fastest you can get with 5d6 Init dice.

Can you get any faster for a starting character (if you lift the 8 availability restriction and give them unlimited cash)?

I am looking to create a corporate "champion".

Because you really think it's worth for any organization to sink over 25 millions in a "coroporate champion"?

What's the economics of it?
Better get a highly trained black ops team with 2 or 3 mages in it!
Cheaper and much much more efficient.

Now what corps want?
Think.

And if you stuff your corporate turkey with anything short of a semi-ballistic reactor, he won't run/fly faster than bullets and Manabolts.

Just forget it.

Planning, advantage of situations, etc will let you down about anything.

Don't underestimate the intimidation factor of someone like Teachdaire.

~J

A small well trained ops team will always be better than a single man/woman, but the few corps that have Delta clinics are going to need human (or metahuman) lab rats to test the new gear on. They need to establish benchmarks, test procedures and what not. Now the person that gets this new gear probably wont last, but the wealth of data that can be collected from a live subject shouldn't be ignored.

"Corporate champion" doesn't necessarily imply a super-soldier. This guy could be the corp's star athlete in this year's Cyber-Olympics, a competition that is as much a test for cyberware engineers as it is for the athletes involved. There's no reason why an event like this couldn't exist in SR, and it would be a perfectly valid reason to spend tons of cash on a single semi-ballistic turkey .

+6d6 without magic. MBW: 4 and Synaptic Accellerator: 1. At least you could do it in 2nd Edition, haven't checked 3rd...

The Abstruse One

MBW and Synap doesn't stack anymore IIRC

MBW & Synaptic accelerator never ever worked together (M&M p 79).

Any way there is no discussion, if you want to act first, there is only ONE way in the whole game system: Adept Power: Quick Strike, nothing beats it.

Whatever your Init.'s number of dice, the guy will act BEFORE.
You should be able to munch an Init above 45, granted; but Quick Strike adepts will act anyway before you.

And then when you have Quick Strike you should learn to kill in one strike only.

So, "corporate champions" are dead meat faced with it, if they only rely on speed.

Bossted reflexes lvl 3, Synaptic lvl 2 that gets you your 5d6 Initaive

for the reaction. You need an elf with exceptional int edge. that gets you a max natural reaction of 11, add the bossted bonuses of +2 along with 6 lvl of reaction enhancers for a total of...

19 +5d6 unless i missed something.
Though still no better than Move by wire 4

but as rice bowl said an adept with quickstrike will still go first. (unless he's hurt some how)

fastest innish.... hrmm, well, the average metahuman can cram roughly 39 lvls of Reaction Enhancement (Delta of course) into their body. Add in a reaction enhancement and synaptic accel lv bioware, and you are left with a person with a 46+3d6 innish. All for the low low introductory rate of :nuyen:25,956,000. But keep in mind, that gravity affects a all objects on Innish pass 40 (it's in the falling rules in Companion), so you are left with a character who can act before gravity takes affect. How is that for scary. Still.... it's a lot of money to plop down on a one trick pony, especially since 3E rules allow the 3+1d6 thug to get in his two actions right after Speedy Gongalez here gets his first two, and without any real protectic cyberware, he'll be the fastest blood stain in the 6th world.

Rice Bowl, I do not appreciate the tone of your first two posts. What exactly are you attempting to imply?

And Bira had it correct. Instead of nations being represented in the Olympics of my future, Corps would enter their athletes. They would then indirectly get free advertising and public support for their product if it fared well.

Thanks to all of you that contributed to answering my question.

Sidekick:
1/ muscle toner grants maximum bonus of +4 (M&M p67), same for muscle augmentation.
2/ regarding reaction enhancer, you cannot stack more than 6 levels



Nindaru:
Initiative and movement speed are two very different things and in your initial post, you were asking sth to beat the 5d6 init of MBW (which grant a mere QU +4).

Now if you meant you were looking for the fastest thing running on two legs, the answer is:
Anything running fast HELPED by a spirit as powerful as possible who maintains Movement on your champion: THAT's the fastest running thing in SR.

ex: un-modified average running athlet: QU 5, Athletic skill (sprinting) 4(6)
average roll: 3 successes, so 24 m per round
with a Force 6 spirit maintaining Movement (LoS range) you basic athlet runs 144m/round.

Even the extra fast elf with MBW 4 and QU 16 and Athletics 10 should be stuck at around 63 m/round.


I nevertheless stand my point that some implanted semi-ballistic reactor would be great, if you don't forget to put the brakes!

The highest initiative total you can get is through Boosted Reflexes 3, Synaptic Accelerator 2, and Reaction Enhancers 6. While the numerical total will result in a higher value than Move By Wire 4 you will still get less actions because of the 2 "free" ones the MBW4 gets you at the end of the first two passes. As stated the only surefire way of going first in a combat is the Quick Stirke power. Running speed is a whole nother ball game, where adepts will likley beat anything else simply because of their ability to own in the athletics department (which ups quickness for running speed calculations).

To add a little roleplay realistics here, SSG mentions most sports (granted not the olimpics) and the fact that most cyberware is still banned from many of them. Not to mention that anyone with the MBW systems or the reaction enhancers ect. contained in this post would give you an olimpics full of twitchy mother f***ers. An expensive failure for any corp if you ask me. People still want to see talent in these things, not a NASCAR robot footrace.

'Nix
>> Just my 2¥

Rice Bowl - I apologize. I saw malicious intent where there wasn't any. I need to lighten up. I was simply looking for the highest Init Dice possible.

Nix, the "Olympics" I was thinking of was a creation of the corps. It started as an Ares event similar to old paintball where they tested their new weapons with non-lethal ammo. That developed into a division vs. division friendly competition to showcase their latest developments in a manner that the big wigs in the company could enjoy and understand. (It has 1:10 rifling? Um, ok...)

It has since developed from Ares to a company vs. company to a multi-corps event. It is all over the local Trid as a corp showcase of new developments. Part commercial, part extreme sporting event. Most of the standard typical events are listed, e.g. Track & Field, Team Sports (Baseball, etc.), Weightlifting, Wrestling, Fencing, Gymnastics, Martial Arts.

The appeal is similar to that which fueled reality shows and extreme accomplishments Trid. It is not enjoyed by the pure athlete, but rather by those with a more sinister bent. (Do you watch boxing because it is a sport, or to see someone get the crap beat out of them?)

Picture the events... Cyber'd people doing gymnastics. Cyber'd people playing baseball. Imagine the NEW size of the stadium or the outfielder jumping the wall the make the save. A boxing match would look like Neo and the Agent boxing in super speed...

And in regards to a NASCAR robot footrace... Millions of people watch NASCAR. I do not understand why, but they do. Not only that but they watch the race, not just when there is a crash. Watching NASCAR (in my opinion) is like sitting on the overpass watching the freeway traffic... Zzzzz.......

In any event, my motivation was not simply combat, but something much larger. I am just trying to flesh out the world for my players and cater to their typical likes and dislikes (my players LOVE the idea. One of them wants to join the games...)

drug me up baby.

kazi + jazz + any fricken reaction enhancer

"thiwp" "pssstt" "ahh...."

On uber-soldier NPCs:

There is no reason that a team can't be built around the ubersoldier; saying that it is more efficient and effective to build a team instead of an ubersoldier is silly. They can do both.

Also, the buzz you might hear about Corp X's super ultimate cybergod could really boost that corps cyberware sales. Rather than thinking of it as a ridiculously expensive security expenditure, think of it as relatively inexpensive marketing.


These are really just excuses to put them into the game because, in moderation, they're fun.

The fastest runner (as in sprinter) without magic, you would be best to work off a base of a ghoul with kid stealth legs.

running multiplyer x5.

Why ghoul?

~J

cause they have a +1 to their running multiplier, quick'uns they is. but would getting cyber legs replacing their current ones get rid of the natural plus?

I knew about the +1, but I'm pretty sure the cyberreplacement voids that. I was wondering if there was something else.

~J

The costs listed in the book do not represent how much money the coprs pay for the cyber ware.

Look at cars. How much does it really cost to make a brand new car? Do you think a car takes more than one tenth of what you pay for it to make it?Areses made Move-by-wire systems do not cost Ares 25,000,000.I think would be better say that it costs them closser to 250,000. Why do they charage so much forit?Simple, they can. What are you going to do?Not buy it?Big deal.

Actually, it's entirely possible that MBW-4 actually costs close to 25 million. After all, these aren't items that tend to be sold for profit.

~J

unless souls are very profitable...

By the way, gents, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but reading above I saw Rice Bowl associate running speed with initiative. (And I know it's more than just him that does.) While it IS, in a few crutial respects, YOU DO NOT get to move your full running every action.

I know, by book defination, what I say is wrong. However, I wish to call in a point from the Offical Errata, under "Can a character change the type of movement within his or her own Combat Phases?"

if you are talking about running speed, our concept character quickster can get around i think like 80m/turn without a test. but he is built entirely for running, so don't expect much else.

Are you allowed to use any type of exotic race or metavariant? 'Cause if so, I'm fairly sure that Drakes start out with a +1 to reaction and 2D6 initiative modifier. Although I can't remember if they got their bonuses in human form as well as drake form now. Bugger. :/

Initiative-wise, dice aren't necessarily the way to go - this design is to acheive the highest minimum initiative (and possibly one of the highest - if not the highest total)

Night One with Exceptional Quickness and Intelligence (Q 9(max13), I 7(max10), R 8 + 1D6)

Gene Therapy (BI 0.9) (Q 9(max14), I 7(max10), R 8 + 1D6)
Phenotypic Alteration (Quickness)
Erythropoietin (+2 dice for all athletics tests)

Bioware (BI 4.7) (Q 14(max14), I 9(max10), R 13 + 1D6)
Cerebral Booster 2
Enhanced Articulation
Suprathyroid Gland
Muscle Toner 4
Synthacardium 2

Cyberware (E 2.45) (Q 14(max14), I 9(max10), R 25 + 4D6)
Reaction Enhancers 6 (delta) 0.9
Wired Reflexes 3 (delta) 2.5
3 Reusable AutoInjectors (delta) 0.15
(Cram, Jazz, Psyche)

With above mentioned drugs, attributes and initiative increase to this:
(Q 16(max14), I 10(max10), R 28 + 6D6)
As far as I know, there is nothing canon that says you cannot combine drugs and cyber/bio benefits. It can be argued that Quickness still can't go above racial maximum, however - in this case leave Quickness at 14 and lower Reaction to 27.

On top of this, you can also have the character use Spirit Strength Magixal Compound - this gives him Enhanced Quickness, Enhanced Movement(multiplier of 5) and Enhanced Reactions critter powers (among others), for a final result of: (Q 18(max14), I 10(max10), R 29 + 7D6)

If you don't care about biosystem overstress, add an Adrenal Pump 2 and push the final reaction value up to 33, and if you don't care about ading more harmful drugs, pump in a dose of Novacoke(+1 R) and a dose of Kamikaze(+1D6) - all this gives you a minimum initiative of 47, and a maximum of 78(!!!)

that is perverted!

I likey

...and after your hyper dumper iniative that you use to get your super duper guns up and running, your going to die after that adept troll hits you with his crappy 3+1d6 iniative.

life is unfair for default.

Drakes only get those bonuses in Drake form.

In theory you could SURGE my abomination above, to add another level of exceptional quickness and some satyr legs (for a +1 to reaction and another point in movement multiplier)

And while you're at it, why not go full out an make him/her a high-level initiated magician adept - buy Quick Strike and some levels of Improved Athletics, and maybe some Sixth Sense and Combat Sense 3 to boost combat pool and make it virtually impossible for the character to be suprised.

Initiate Grade 11 should do - Magic Power 6 (4.5), Quick Strike (2.25), Combat Sense 3 (2.25), Sixth Sense 5 (1.00), and Improved Athletics 5 (1.00) - all geased to city or something approperiate) for a total PP cost of 11. Add Centering and Quickening for the two remaining magic points. The virtual magic rating is of course 6 (magic 11, -5 from bioware(no Adrenal Pump on the adept!)) meaning he can use 6 points of his powers at once. For spells, choose Deflect, Increase Cybered Intelligence, Increase Cybered Willpower, and Combat Sense all at Force 6. Quicken all of them (or use sustaining foci or elementals) and you 'should' be able to add another two to intelligence (for yet another point of reaction), 3 to Willpower and add some points to your combat pool (about 6, half of which can only be used for dodging) finally add Lightning Reflexes 3 - this would result in a character with approximately these values:

B 5
Q 15 x 4 (18 x 5)
S 5
C 3
I 9(12)
W 7(10)
E 2.45
M {11} 6
R 26 (31) (can roll up to 60 dice in surprise situations...)
INIT: 26+4D6 (31+8D6)
Combat Pool: 18 (26(plus 3 dice for dodging only))
Athletics: 6(15)
Running: 8(17)

and some other skills and such, of course...

144 m/ a turn is from wince I got that, rice bowl.
And as far as me being the only one to do that, I've corrected people RUNNING tornments on it. The wording and placement of phrases in early third edition let to that.

And, the way the rule is written, and the way the errata is said, you state at the begining of your turn what movement type you are doing. You can then move that far during your turn. You do not have to break it down into phases.

(Edit note: If I am stumbling around a bit on some of these points, take pity on me. The editor quit, I got a promotion and sleep deprived.)

The fastest character would prolly be a Nightone with exceptional quickness as an Adept with improved quickness, and then strap on the vampire template and go go go.

Some ways to help a running cyber charachter (some of which have already been mentioned):

So yea, all the quickness cyber & bioware (including move by wire) you can use.

Move by wire 1: +1d athletics.
Kid Stealth: +1 running mult.
Cyberskates: 6 running mult (can be retractable too).
Synthacardium-2: +2d athletics.
Enhanced articulation: +1d athletics.
Hydraulic Jacks-5: +5 running dice
Reflex recorder athletics/running: +1d
Enhanced lung volume 1-3: -1-3 fatigue t#s

That gives you a running mult of 4-6 (depending on the surface) and up to 10 bonus running dice (though perhaps you can only use up to your skill in bonus dice).

The main problem with the kid stealth legs is that with the incredibly lame cyberlimb rules you are better off just keeping regular human legs and pumping your quickness. The cyberlimbs are very tough to get over 7 quickness while the regular limbs can easily get to 10 (and 7x4 = 21 (edit: or maybe its 28 heh) while 10x3 = 30). The skates and jacks you can put in a cyber lower leg, helping to keep up your average quickness while still being able to jump twice as far and high.

I don't think you can get it all for one million newyen.

Also the SoTA protein treatment for +2 athletics dice.

And yeah, ghouls are fast...because the slow ones get turned in for the bounty.

-Siege