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The Stainless Steel Rat
So I take it you don't enforce the legality ratings for magical gear? Come on Frank - it's illegal. Maybe with the right bribe the guard(s) will look the other way, but as a general airline/FAA policy? No way.
Deamon_Knight
Again, though, don't you require LOS to cast a spell into the focus? (assuming its sustaining) other foci need LOS (I'd assume) to activate. A Focus activated and then implanted would continue to function, but there would have no other control over it.
Herald of Verjigorm
If it's in your gut, there is a line of sight, just not from your eyes.
There is not actually any statement (in SR3) that you must even meet the requirements for casting a spell at a sustaining focus to cast it into one. The closest is
QUOTE (SR3 p. 191)
The sustaining focus must be in physical contact with the target of a spell before it is cast in order to sustain it,
tisoz
Let me see if I understand what some of you are saying.

1. A magician with a bonded sustaining focus implanted in him can not cast a spell into the focus because he has no LOS.

2. An assensing or projecting enemy magician can target this same focus.

Could the enemy mage detect the same focus stuffed in a thanksgiving turkey, or how about in a safe which roughly occupies the same volume as an adult human? How about FAB in walls?

I play that things that are opaque on the physical are opaque on the astral, so even if the mage had an active focus concealed totally within his hand (or a tooth compartment) you are not going to discover it just by looking or assesnsing. Same as a foci in a persons pocket, it is not going to be a target for LOS spells. If someone had a slay virus spell and cast it at a person with a cold, the cold isn't going to get cured, because the caster does not have LOS to the virus, or are you going to claim their aura should show?
Brahm
So in your game you don't need to worry about LOS spells as long as you are dressed like this? http://www.siue.edu/~jvotsmi/votspicts/mot...ts/00_rider.jpg

Or to become immune to spells do you have to stick a dead chicken on each hand and then dress like this?
eidolon
I'm pretty sure he meant "inherently magical things".
Deamon_Knight
I think its stated in SR3 that auras extend somewhat beyond the physical bounds of their source. The active focus in a pocket should be visible (astrally), though cover modifiers logically should apply. Thus, I think mages with many foci should watch out for that mana ball, and other AOE effects.

I say a sustaining focus must be seen. If you must cast a spell into it, it is a target of magic. Magical targeting almost univerally requires LOS. Other foci perhaps not, but I don't buy that you can swallow your power focus marble and activate/deactivate it at will. I'd rule some tactile interaction is required, YMMV.
tisoz
QUOTE (Brahm)
So in your game you don't need to worry about LOS spells as long as you are dressed like this? http://www.siue.edu/~jvotsmi/votspicts/mot...ts/00_rider.jpg

Or to become immune to spells do you have to stick a dead chicken on each hand and then dress like this?

(Not bothering to click links when the picture could be easily described.)

How does SR$ handle it?

I notice you ignore the other implications of "aura targeting".

In my game, I guess I figure clothing becomes part of the human target. Kind of like how bolting on a car rack to the top of a car makes the rack part of the car, while something placed in the rack is still its own entity.

If I wanted to give worn clothing the same LOS restrictions that say blocking LOS with a shield would impose, I could. There are other spells available that would then be more advantageous to know because they did not require LOS to effect a potential target.
The Stainless Steel Rat
QUOTE (tisoz)
...are you going to claim their aura should show?

I'll go out on a limb and make that claim. You can tell an awful lot about somebody (especially an awakened) on a high enough assensing roll. Mood, health, initiate grade, whether they are a member of an initiatory group, presence/location of cyber. I'm not 100% sure that you can tell how many foci they are bonded to and how many of those are currently active by canon, but it sure makes sense to me to add it if it isn't.
Brahm
QUOTE (tisoz @ Feb 2 2006, 01:55 AM)
(Not bothering to click links when the picture could be easily described.)

Somehow you have to see Merry Christmas Mr. Bean to fully grasp it.

QUOTE
How does SR$ handle it?


There is a general "no dork" rule. Thank you for complying. wink.gif

QUOTE
I notice you ignore the other implications of "aura targeting".


What, that something with a strong enough aura could show itself from inside a box? Not ignored. Or you have something else in mind?

QUOTE
In my game, I guess I figure clothing becomes part of the human target.  Kind of like how bolting on a car rack to the top of a car makes the rack part of the car, while something placed in the rack is still its own entity.


So you made up your own ruling to make it playable? In SR3? No kidding! Damn, I was told the rules practically GMed themself. eek.gif

Joking aside, the focus is bonded to you and on your person. Assensing allows you to detect what is on inside of a person including cyberware, bioware, in SR4 the state of being a technomancer, diseases, mental state, and so on. Why wouldn't a astral visual inspection reveal the impression of that focus the person is carrying? The person comes on through the clothing, and possibly though the focus on the way.
Herald of Verjigorm
QUOTE (Brahm)
QUOTE
In my game, I guess I figure clothing becomes part of the human target.  Kind of like how bolting on a car rack to the top of a car makes the rack part of the car, while something placed in the rack is still its own entity.


So you made up your own ruling to make it playable? In SR3? No kidding! Damn, I was told the rules practically GMed themself. eek.gif

No, he made up his own logic to explain the rules. SR3 states that worn clothing and armor, regardless of thickness, does not impede LOS to the wearer. It just has absolutely no specified reason why. This is to avoid all the arguments generated by the "must be able to target their aura" of SR2 which lead to way to many annoying questions about aura volume.
ShadowDragon8685
Remember kiddies, this is why billowing smoke, showers of sparks, and other such fun nicities are essential to protect you from mages. smile.gif
KarmaInferno
My first try at a Shadowrun Missions character featured a cyber-armed mage that had a weapon/power focus as a retractable forearm spur.

...

What?


-karma
Beaumis
Well hi first, been readinf for a while, but this is my first post. yay. biggrin.gif

We've been playing with implanted foci since 2nd edition. Of course, back then implanting a focus was quite a bit more of a risk because of the grounding rules, but some of us, including me, were willing to take that risk because of the simply huge cost of foci. Loosing your powerfokus really kicked you back.
Not to mention the fact that a focus worked just as nice as blood when it came to ritual magic.

As for traveling via plane, beside the fact that most runners are unlikely to use these methods of transportation (kind of a sin problem... ), even if they did an implanted focus wouldnt be much of a problem. Just travel sub orbital and the company wont worry about mages that much. No astral space up there, so no spells.
As it was said before, there arent that much options to prevent a mage from causing havoc in a plane when he wants to. Airlines rely mostly on the idea that most dangerous mages want to get away with what they did, which is kinda hard on a plane barring parachutes.

For rules, we basically considered implanted foci to be a different type of fingertip compartment, which is 0.1 essence. This coupled with the fact that your going to loose magic along with it balanced things out in our opinion. And as mentioned above, there was the risk of having a useless piece of whatever implanted when the focus was destroyed. You did have to buy a focus specifically designed for that though. This also provided the GM with a simple option to beef up enemy mages without handing us a couple of hundred thousand whenever we killed one.

Weapon focus spurs, razors and similar things were also pretty common for us, though, in these cases we figured it's just the blade that's enchanted, not the actual cyberware that is connected to your nerves. Kinda like a switchblade. Again, the loss of magic balanced things out.

As for decompression, even today there are bullets specifically designed to enter but not leave the target. Basically the bullet enters and splinters inside the target, so airline security can take down threats without having to worry about blasting the walls (As long as they hit that is). Im pretty sure that 50+ years later these bullets would be refined and perfected. And besides, where does it say that security actually has to use bullets? If I had to design airline security, I'd equip everyone on a plane with a Superquirt instead of a real gun. That way you wont even have to worry about hitting innocent bystanders. A few hours of sleep never hurt nobody.


Brahm
QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm @ Feb 2 2006, 08:14 PM)
No, he made up his own logic to explain the rules.  SR3 states that worn clothing and armor, regardless of thickness, does not impede LOS to the wearer.  It just has absolutely no specified reason why.  This is to avoid all the arguments generated by the "must be able to target their aura" of SR2 which lead to way to many annoying questions about aura volume.

I thought I made it clear I was joking.

However what is the literal rule in SR3 about foci?

QUOTE (tisoz)
I play that things that are opaque on the physical are opaque on the astral, so even if the mage had an active focus concealed totally within his hand (or a tooth compartment) you are not going to discover it just by looking or assesnsing.


Is this the literal rules, did he make this up contrary to the literal rules, or did he just decide to have it that work that way because it wasn't explicit in the rules?
stevebugge
I believe that for the most part that that is the actual written rule, for things that are opaque on the physical world, thier astral shadows are opaque as well.
Brahm
QUOTE (stevebugge @ Feb 3 2006, 10:53 AM)
I believe that for the most part that that is the actual written rule, for things that are opaque on the physical world, thier astral shadows are opaque as well.

For the most part.


Post Script

It is a pain in the butt to enforce since you start worrying about facing rules and whether the foci is over top or underneath a shirt or other clothing at that point in time. Not to mention innane that you can see the person through foci, but you can't see the foci.
Findar
Storage tooth. Shape the foci to fit in the tooth and make it out of orichalcum so it will look like a filling in the tooth. No essence loss per the rules for a storage tooth.
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