Full Version: Watcher $#&@ing spirts
Ok, so there is a lot to do about watcher spirits but I find the best thing to do is just to walk past them like you belong there. You take your chances but really, what's going to happen? They alert the mage who controls them. He astrally projects from his apartment or office to see what is going on. You sick your spirits on him. Heck, I was invading a building heavily guarded by spirits one time so I just set a building on fire with all the activity that followed we slipped into the non-burning building unnoticed dressed as firemen/paramedics.
Or, if you'll read the topic, the Watcher manifests and starts screaming its head off alerting all physical security in the area.
~J
~J
Well, the stock orders are usually 'goto the security office and tell the personnel on duty, if there is no one on duty then...'. This means that the person found out by the watcher dosen't know about it right away. Manifesting and screaming your head off should only be used on invisible opponents.
| QUOTE (DocMortand) | ||
Ok, smart guy - then how do YOU deal with Watcher Football Teams? |
The first, and most obvious thing to consider is that if the PC's can do it, then the opposition can as well. So, assuming that the opposing mage is of equal power, he can summon an equal number of high-force watchers. Even if the opposition isn't equal, they could easily have more mages on hand, who can each summon a squadron of watchers. Since the Watcher Attack Pack™ relies on superior numbers to make Friends in Melee work, the side with the most watchers wins every time.
Next, remember that it takes an action to conjure a watcher, no matter what your grade is. So, if the watcher attack pack™ gets mauled, the mage will be constantly summoning fresh watchers to replace the ones that go down. This means that he can't do other things, like cast spells or participate in astral combat. What's more, commanding a spirit is also an action; so if said mage is busy summoning watchers, they won't jump into the fray until he's done.
Also, remember that even high force watchers are stupid. You can send them chasing after an astral decoy: if you have two high powered spirits, the one that gets attacked could run away, and the watchers will chase it blindly. Once out of their summoner's immediate presence, they can't be given new orders, so they'll continue to chase it all over the world. The chased spirit can then simply slip through a ward made by its summoner, and be scot-free. In the meanwhile, the other spirit will be making mincemeat out of the team that suddenly lost their astral superiority. This trick can also be pulled off by having spirit opposition attack in waves, with the first acting as a decoy, and the second being the finishing blow.
| QUOTE (Sharaloth) | ||
Depends on the power level of the campaign, Ronin. Lina's obviously playing in something approaching a high-powered game, so a character with a starting line of Force 6 watchers is not that terrible a thing to behold. In my own rediculously high powered game there's a PC who usually has a gaggle of high-force watchers in addition to as many great form spirits she can summon at a time for any fight she knows of in advance. As a GM, it's my job to tailor the story and the opposition to meet the characters, and so more often than not those high force spirits meet up with other high force spirits and are forced to duke it out. Generally I have the opposition with fewer spirits at a higher force, so the team can take advantage of Friends in Melee rules while maintaining the idea that any watcher that is actually hit will be instant toast. Also, enemy magicians make regular appearances, as is only natural in a high-magic campaign, and those can put a huge damper on teams of spirits at your beck and call. Finally, there's always the fact that watchers can't do shit to you on the physical except bug you. Target actual nasty spirits first, take them out, then watchers die at your leisire. In a lower-powered campaign, sure, the character is heading for the old-Shadowrunner's home where they won't actually age or die, just sit there in godlike luxury... but in a campaign where such a character is acceptable and actually fits in, it shouldn't be a big problem coming up with counters to most of their usual tactics, forcing them into the ever-pleasant task of rethinking their strategy. |
Just for the record, by "usual tactics" Sharaloth means any major tactic that's been used more than once. Sometimes twice.
Also, as the person who has the massive packs of spirits? One time he shot the conjurer in the back. Turncoat situation. Two times there were force 10 Light spiritblasts. With 8+ successes. Even force 6 watchers and great form spirits don't reliably hit that.
Only the last did it work out well.. and even then, spirits were being taken down the instant they started using confusion. Accidenting the force 10? 15? some obscene thing great form earth elemental was ignored.. so was the pack of watchers poking it. They couldn't hurt it, but it kept it out of the fight. Until the viking attacked it. Then he got friends in melee on his side. And believe me, he needed them..
| QUOTE (DocMortand @ Feb 27 2006, 08:07 PM) | ||||
I'm working on it, I'm working on it.  It is a bit imbalancing, yes...but we've gotten Angel to the point where she isn't a regular cast member, just helps out (with 24 karma.) |
Yeah, well, the problem is Doc, you're doing everything you can to prevent the character from making the money she needs to retire. Without that, there's no in-character reason why she would retire since she has no other means of legit income.
Besides, there are a whole bunch of people who've replied already, saying how a dozen Force 6+ Watchers are no big deal and easily dealt with, though I take exception in saying that the Watcher are necessarily "stupid". Single-minded, yes, but don't forget that Watcher spirits derive their stats from their Force. A Force 6 Watcher, in essense, has max human Intelligence (though without the lifetime of experience and education to draw from). When you consider this, along with some of the decisions/actions of some Runners (ie, CLUE files), Watchers don't seem all that stupid to me.
No more than a Pilot 3 Drone has average human intelligence.
~J
~J
Intelligence score is a strange thing..
Some people have really high intelligence scores, but are clueless (Though not worthy of CLUE files, just lacking in problem solving/rapid data processing ability). They're really perceptive though, and will notice things. But they won't necessairily put together bits of information that aren't obviously related.
Watchers fall into that category at high force, I think.
This is contrasted with someone whom you'd describe as having a mind like a steel trap. Intuitive, observant, and good at putting together various things, or that studies and has vast storehouses of information.
So, to my mind, watchers at really high force would be observant (perception checks), remember things (orders, messages, locations), but not really intelligent. They probably WOULD notice the housecat with a spell on it... they might not register "spell" as "transform" or "shapechange", and therefore sound the alarm. Or, if the instructions are "Watch for intruders", they could very well be reporting every insect, small animal, and so on... If it's watch for metahuman intruders, then cats, dogs, drones and so on get right through. And so on.
Some people have really high intelligence scores, but are clueless (Though not worthy of CLUE files, just lacking in problem solving/rapid data processing ability). They're really perceptive though, and will notice things. But they won't necessairily put together bits of information that aren't obviously related.
Watchers fall into that category at high force, I think.
This is contrasted with someone whom you'd describe as having a mind like a steel trap. Intuitive, observant, and good at putting together various things, or that studies and has vast storehouses of information.
So, to my mind, watchers at really high force would be observant (perception checks), remember things (orders, messages, locations), but not really intelligent. They probably WOULD notice the housecat with a spell on it... they might not register "spell" as "transform" or "shapechange", and therefore sound the alarm. Or, if the instructions are "Watch for intruders", they could very well be reporting every insect, small animal, and so on... If it's watch for metahuman intruders, then cats, dogs, drones and so on get right through. And so on.
back to the 'quick resolution' of spirit combat, from what I recall of this it was from 2nd edition, used on elementals of opposing types. For example, if a water elemental force 4 took on a force 5 fire, the force 5 fire would end up at force 1, and the water elemental would be disrupted. IIRC, this didn't apply to any other type of spirit combat. We still use this little rule, just 'cause we always thought it was cool.
| QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0) |
| back to the 'quick resolution' of spirit combat, from what I recall of this it was from 2nd edition, used on elementals of opposing types. For example, if a water elemental force 4 took on a force 5 fire, the force 5 fire would end up at force 1, and the water elemental would be disrupted. IIRC, this didn't apply to any other type of spirit combat. We still use this little rule, just 'cause we always thought it was cool. |
Yes, that's right. It's *incorrect* to use those rules for watcher spirits. Instead, the only cannon thing to do is make the GM suffer and cry.
| QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) | ||
Yes, that's right. It's *incorrect* to use those rules for watcher spirits. Instead, the only cannon thing to do is make the GM suffer and cry. |
*cries*
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