Full Version: Cruise ship? nah. Cruise ZEPPLIN
What is this? 1932?
I do like it, though. I once ran in a game set on a flying hotel flying across the Atlantic, but it was a flying-wing plane, and not a blimp. Aw, man. That was a neat game.
I do like it, though. I once ran in a game set on a flying hotel flying across the Atlantic, but it was a flying-wing plane, and not a blimp. Aw, man. That was a neat game.
just bringing it up since they've started showing up in SR , like the Zeppelin heist in SOTA 64
Oh, I know. Perhaps it was because the first thought that came to me when I saw the title was, "No ticket."
Last Crusade?
I've been hearing about this. It's supposed to be the "next big thing" in tourism travel. Pretty much like it says, it's a cruise ship in the sky.
Personally, I can't wait to go on one.
Personally, I can't wait to go on one.
I'm sure this has been tried before a couple of times. From what I remember the big problem was the companies trying to get zeppelins back in fashion (or whatever) keep thinking too big and going bust about halfway through.
Still, if it's built I'm so getting a ticket. It'd be awesome.
Still, if it's built I'm so getting a ticket. It'd be awesome.
Why are they avoiding lighter than air (or near lighter than air or controlled neutral bouyancy)?
Sadly, Rigger 3 doesn't allow for building proper zeppelins.
Although you can make a nice solar powered very mobile home for a few million.
| QUOTE (John Campbell) |
| Sadly, Rigger 3 doesn't allow for building proper zeppelins. |
Probably for the same reason they game that you cant build a main battle tank, no runner is ever going to get one.
This dose rase a question however.
AIRCRAFT CARIER??!!?!?!??
Edward
don't forget, locomotive.
awesome!
| QUOTE (Arethusa) |
| Why are they avoiding lighter than air (or near lighter than air or controlled neutral bouyancy)? |
Partially, if not mostly, because of the Hindenburg disaster way, way back in the day. The industry was never really able to come back from that one. And partially because of the lack of a reliable hydrogen substitute. LTA gasses in sufficient quantity are quite difficult to get ahold of on Earth. It was explained to me once, when I asked this very question, that part of the trouble is that the US possesses almost half of the viable helium (which is generally the preferred substitute since it doesn't burn) reserves on the planet, so while US-based corporations and organizations can get enough for the occasional full-size blimp, foreign concerns have a more difficult time of it. And the gas is highly valued in a number of industrial applications so that many of the producers appear hesitant to offer it up for something as frivolous as luxury air travel.
That does explain things. What are they using for the quoted 2/3rds lift figure?
Helium.
I say use hydrogen.
It is not explosive except in conditions that are unlikely occur in the airship, and in the case of a puncture its unlikely to find an ignition sores, remember the Hindenburg went down amid red flames, not blue as hydrogen burns. The “protective cladding” amounted to thermit and ignited buy a static charge (this is how it was discovered). Both of these things will not happen given today’s level knowledge.
if there using hydrogen fuel sells to power the thing anyway then there carrying lage amounts of hydrogen anyway, it would call it very useful to be able to route fuel to the boinsy tanks in an emergency.
The biggest advantage of being heavier than air is its more stable on the ground and means your carrying more payload per unit construction materials and landing space.
The disad to being heavier than air is in fuel consumption.
At least that’s how I see it working out.
Edward
It is not explosive except in conditions that are unlikely occur in the airship, and in the case of a puncture its unlikely to find an ignition sores, remember the Hindenburg went down amid red flames, not blue as hydrogen burns. The “protective cladding” amounted to thermit and ignited buy a static charge (this is how it was discovered). Both of these things will not happen given today’s level knowledge.
if there using hydrogen fuel sells to power the thing anyway then there carrying lage amounts of hydrogen anyway, it would call it very useful to be able to route fuel to the boinsy tanks in an emergency.
The biggest advantage of being heavier than air is its more stable on the ground and means your carrying more payload per unit construction materials and landing space.
The disad to being heavier than air is in fuel consumption.
At least that’s how I see it working out.
Edward
I still dont see how strapping several million cubic feet of an explosive gas to my back would be a smart thing.
And Edward, from my college chem book:
When mixed with oxygen, hydrogen explodes upon ignition. A unique property of hydrogen is that its flame is completely invisible in air. This makes it difficult to tell if a leak is burning, and carries the added risk that it is easy to walk into a hydrogen fire inadvertently.
What was seen was the superstructure burning away.
And Edward, from my college chem book:
When mixed with oxygen, hydrogen explodes upon ignition. A unique property of hydrogen is that its flame is completely invisible in air. This makes it difficult to tell if a leak is burning, and carries the added risk that it is easy to walk into a hydrogen fire inadvertently.
What was seen was the superstructure burning away.
| QUOTE |
| Its 14 million cubic feet of helium hoist only two thirds of the craft's weight. |
Another problem with helium, other than rarity, is that it leaks in almost every possible condition. The higher the pressure, obviously, the greater the leak. As said, with added stability on the ground and a medium pressure tank probably balance well. Also, less gas means better maneuverability, though to what degree I can't say (it's not like the thing will be able to dodge missiles - but with all that helium, a Firelance laser could do the job... or maybe some Detect Missile / Missile Barrier anchors about the vessel).
Interesting...
Once worked on a concept to develop a NB airship that employed "active" lifting body. To assist in ascent and maintaining altitude, waste heat from the engines was bled off into an array of cells within the elongated "fat" delta shaped envelope.
The skin was made of lightweight polymers & composites. Propulsion was provided by four sets of counter rotating unducted fans powered by turboshafts. Projected speed was about 220 - 260 knt. with a 7,000 NM range.
Another variant had the fans buried in the body of the craft for an aerodynamically cleaner form which also ducted thrust over parts of the lifting body structure to enhance performance.
Neither of these are true LTAs in that buoyant gas is not required to provide actual lift. The craft still took off like a conventional plane but with a much shorter field requirement than present day widebody aircraft. I have actually worked one up in Rigger3+ for one of my campaigns.
Once worked on a concept to develop a NB airship that employed "active" lifting body. To assist in ascent and maintaining altitude, waste heat from the engines was bled off into an array of cells within the elongated "fat" delta shaped envelope.
The skin was made of lightweight polymers & composites. Propulsion was provided by four sets of counter rotating unducted fans powered by turboshafts. Projected speed was about 220 - 260 knt. with a 7,000 NM range.
Another variant had the fans buried in the body of the craft for an aerodynamically cleaner form which also ducted thrust over parts of the lifting body structure to enhance performance.
Neither of these are true LTAs in that buoyant gas is not required to provide actual lift. The craft still took off like a conventional plane but with a much shorter field requirement than present day widebody aircraft. I have actually worked one up in Rigger3+ for one of my campaigns.
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten) | ||
Another problem with helium, other than rarity, is that it leaks in almost every possible condition. The higher the pressure, obviously, the greater the leak. As said, with added stability on the ground and a medium pressure tank probably balance well. Also, less gas means better maneuverability, though to what degree I can't say (it's not like the thing will be able to dodge missiles - but with all that helium, a Firelance laser could do the job... or maybe some Detect Missile / Missile Barrier anchors about the vessel). |
Hydrogen is far worse. Platinum is one of the few linings that can actually contain the stuff, as it leaks through almost anything else. Smallest elemental particle, and all.
One could always try to opposite route. Instead of trying to use a lighter than air gas make the air itself heavier. Get rid of all that oxygen and nitrogen and replace them with dense hydrocarbon chains. Thus, you could use safer heavier gases and still be lighter than air.
Of course, this would make it impossible to breathe outside but, in Shadowrun, that is a small price to pay.
Of course, this would make it impossible to breathe outside but, in Shadowrun, that is a small price to pay.
Are you mad? I love oil as much as the next American (I'd kill for it), but I don't want to have to breathe it!
Not unless I can invent a new steel alloy in the process and make ridiculous piles of money, anyway. Then I can basically justify anything.
Not unless I can invent a new steel alloy in the process and make ridiculous piles of money, anyway. Then I can basically justify anything.
If you don't want to breath our beautiful oil you can always buy Mitsuhama's kamikaze brand oxygen for 220 
per liter at your local stuffer shack or other retail outlet.
The steel alloy is yours.
per liter at your local stuffer shack or other retail outlet.The steel alloy is yours.
| QUOTE (Lindt @ Mar 10 2006, 03:49 PM) |
| When mixed with oxygen, hydrogen explodes upon ignition. A unique property of hydrogen is that its flame is completely invisible in air. This makes it difficult to tell if a leak is burning, and carries the added risk that it is easy to walk into a hydrogen fire inadvertently. |
Absolutely fascinating. And to think, the team I'm GMing for is hitting a chemicals plant this weekend. <evil.laughter>
Oh. JOY!
If you've ever done basic electrolysis and then ignited your resultant two tubes, you'll note that hydrogen explodes very easily and very invisibly. It is not quiet, however, on account of the exploding.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| The steel alloy is yours. |
If you'll excuse me, I have to go masturbate to Atlas Shrugged.
| QUOTE (Arethusa) | ||
If you'll excuse me, I have to go masturbate to Atlas Shrugged. |
That reminds me; I need to finish building a sentient knowbot that has the personality of Ayn Rand and upload it into a robot of some sort. Possibly a blimp.
Creating a new steel aloy is painfully easy. Creating one that is useful enough to market over existing blends is a different matter. I only guarentee the former, not the latter.
I quite fondly remember freshman HS science, where we played with basic electrolysis, and my subsequent search for creating a standing hydrogen flame.
Please note that recreating lab conditions at home on a much larger scale are not encoraged. But dammm... did it ever sound cool.
Please note that recreating lab conditions at home on a much larger scale are not encoraged. But dammm... did it ever sound cool.
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