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Kaladhan
This is my first post here, so let's begin by officially presenting myself. I'm a late-20s programmer from Montreal who enjoy RPG in general and looking forward for a steady Shadowrun campaign (which should happen next year when my current campaign ends). I've played every edition of Shadowrun, although it has been a lot of years since I played my last SR game.

I want to discuss Shadowrun and larping. There use to be a Shadowrun/Cyberpunk larp in Montreal named Over-Drive. It had it's flaws, but it was still very enjoyable.

In my spare time, I dream of creating a Shadowrun larp. Does anyone ever did this? What rules did you use? Was it fun?
hyzmarca
The first thing you have to do when staging a Shadowrun LARP is make sure that fully automatic weapons are legal to possess in your jurisdiction. I'm not to sure about Canadian gun laws but you can certain smuggle some in from the States if they aren't.

I recomend AK varients for the runners and M16 varients for corpsec.

Next, you need a MILES system and several thousand rounds of blanks. The MILES system is the most important because you can't actually go around shooting each other.

Information on the MILES system

Third, you'll need a large area that can provide you with come privacy. A warehouse is nice and can be customized to fit the run. A large outdoor area works well for certain types of runes if you own a ranch or something but renting a warehouse is porbably the best way to go.

For armor, you can easily buy NIJ III vests online. You won't actually need armor but it helps with the feel. Walkie Talkies and other basic equipment is also important. I'd recomend having multi-channel walkie talkies so that you can have seperate channels for the runners and the corpsec forces and a shared OOC channel. Make sure someone has a cell phone so that you can call an ambulance if something goes wrong. Safety is important.

I don't recomend vehicle combat. It is just too dangerous and likely to spill out onto public streets. Also, getting vehicle mounted weapons and Antivehicular weapons will be a pain in the rear. If you do want to incorporate vehicle combat there is this very nice SUV with a pop up machine gun turret that I once saw. Unfortunatly, I am unable to find it again. It should be able to take a MILES system. If you can get it it would be less conspicious than other options.

Cyberware is, of course, impossible to work out. Most cyber can't be replicated today and what can would require some messy surgery that no ethical doctor will willingly perform. Magic presents similar problems unless you know some actual wizards. It would probably be best to run a 'ware free magic free street level game to avoid these complications.

And, since the game is going to be so street level, you could probably just modify some legal semiautomatic handguns and sport rifles to use MILES but that would lose too much of the feel IMHO. Street level characters should have access to AKs.

If you are on a budget, sticking to more common semiautomatic weapons is probably the way to go too. Getting fully automatic weapons through legal channels can be costly.
Fix-it
You're a riot, hyzmarca.


rotfl.gif
Kaladhan
hyzmarca... you do realise that larping doesn't include real prop for weapons?
hyzmarca
Maybe not the way you LARP, but I find superior tactical realism is the greatest advantage of the live action enviroment. Laser tag systems or paintball guns can be substituted for the MILES system in a pinch but you need some sort of functional weapon. If you don't use fuctional prop weapons than how can you count kills?
Kaladhan
I didn't post here to find how to do glorified paintball games.
SL James
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
The MILES system is the most important because you can't actually go around shooting each other.

Hush, you.
Brahm
QUOTE (Kaladhan @ Mar 21 2006, 09:37 PM)
I didn't post here to find how to do glorified paintball games.

Then you might have come to the wrong place. There are a high percentage of people with military, ex-military, law officer, and related vocations here. Guns On The Brain is a common condition.

Montreal is still in Canada, right? wink.gif You should be able to get your hands on some pellet gun replicas of handguns and even some ARs, though I think they'll cost you at least a few hundred a piece. Just don't load them up with pellets if you play with people that have allergies to pain.
Mister Juan
I would suggest airsoft.
If memory serve, there's a store somewhere in Sherbrook.
Arethusa
Airsoft is far more practicable than MILES. In that it is not basically impossible, and it would actually be affordable. If LARP's what you want, it's really the only way to go.
Platinum
I was actually looking at trying to run one of these in the Toronto area, but no one was interested.

We would have been using airsoft weapons, and a few people I know have quite a bit of land that we can use with a few buildings on them. Setting up a few laptops, in weapon restricted areas (so the laptops do not take any damage) but the decker, (what ever would have to retrieve a combination from the computer, unlock a combolock, load info to a usb drive ... etc. cyberware - like dermal plating/limbs would buy you a few extra hits before you die of lead poisoning, mages would use silly string/ or hold up cards with symbols explaining what spells they were using. ie... there might be a ladder on a barn, but it would require a levitation card to use it. The mage only gets so many cards (not really like shadowrun, but it adds some element of magic to it. it also depends on the people playing with you)

I think the first scenario we would have ran would either be to recover a hostage, or a corp extraction. If everyone is willing to use a little creativity to get around all of the game mechanic short comings ... it could be a really fun time. Also everyone needs a head set to talk to a gm co-ordinating the event. there really needs to be staff that run this for others.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Kaladhan @ Mar 21 2006, 09:37 PM)
I didn't post here to find how to do glorified paintball games.

Of course not, but there must be some mechanism to resolve ranged combat. In fact, resolving combat wuld have to be the primary concern for a Shadowrun LARP system just as it is for the Shadowrun P&P system.

You can't just stop in the middle of an engagment and roll dice (well you can but it destroys the suspension of disbelief and ruins the atmosphere) so you need a much more dynamic system.

Airsoft pellet guns would work too. They can put eyes out and they can be a bit painful but they would get the job done without feeling too much like glorified paintball.

At any rate, it would be far better to use the SR4 damage box system (so that Body would have a direct impact on one's ability to take damage) and determine the amount of damage caused using ony hit locations (since there is no way for a player to know that power of the weapon that shot him). If you go with the MILES system (which you probably won't) it has its own scoring methods.

For melee you can use rubber or padded weapons and the same hit location system.


Having a consistent fair and fast method of combat resolution such as this allows you to focus on the actual roleplaying and makes the LARP that much more productive.
The SR3 dice system or the SR4 dice system can be used for other less pressing and less time consuming challenges.


If this isn't for you it would be nice to hear what you are looking for and what kind of conflict resolution systems you prefer.
Wounded Ronin
I think that MILES would make the LARPing worthwhile; the action would be so much more immersive if it were less abstracted.

I actually think that melding the MILES with hand to hand combat would be more difficult since the MILES weapons fire blanks and therefore there's a certain risk of schmutz being discharged from the barrel at very close range.

It would be safe to either use rubber weapons or, say, use international rules kickboxing rules for melee (since apparently t3h gr4ppl3 dosen't exist in SR) but since those would require closing to melee range I'm not sure you could manage the firing of blanks in conjunction with it.

Maybe just do either an all sammie or all melee physad campaign and decide on an either/or basis on the MILES or the international rules kickboxing combat engine. You could alternate so that you traumatize different muscle groups each time. Like, if you are limping after the end of the kickboxing LARP because someone thai kicked you in the thigh too much but we switched to MILES the week after you wouldn't have to deal with the exact same thing happening twice in a row.

This discussion just gave me the mental image of a 40 year old fat man with a gigantic beard and huge thick glasses trying to do a shoulder roll while lugging a M249 and 600 rounds of 5.56 blanks and popping his socket.
Valentinew
You could always modify NERO (or some other LARPing group) rules for resolving magic & melee combat. You could also look up info on True Dungeon or True Heroes - both run at GenCon the last few years - for their methods of resolving these things...I've heard they're pretty creative....
Wounded Ronin
For the record I think that the sportive aspect (i.e., having actual international rules kickboxing bouts to determine combat outcomes) is really key to a fun activity. You balance out the mental activity of acting with the physical, and it actually becomes good exercise. You do it enough, and you actually get better conditioning and you get stronger. It's like spending karma to boost your attributes. Nothing feels more rewarding than starting out getting tired after 5 minutes of fighting but working up to the point where you can do 15 consecutive rounds after conditioning exercises no problem.
warrior_allanon
having now worked through the entire rulebook and also having several years experience playing the 3ed world of darkness: mind's eye theatre LARPs i believe that you can use the MET rules to run a SR game easily. Dont know where you will find one, but i kinda want to start one so i can futz with the vampire wannabe's at game and comic conventions.
Oracle
The MET rules really suck. Here in Germany we have a relatively large Vampire LIVE community - but nobody uses MET or a system similar to it.
jonthecelt
I disagree with you about the MET system: I think it works well, but I would be interested to hear exactly which parts of it you think 'suck'.

The problem with using a 'real world' model for the combat, be it kickboxing or MILES, is that it presupposes a certain level of skill on the parts of the players, ie: if you're playing a sammie, you have to be a good shot in real life. This moves away from roleplaying, in my mind, and becomes more like a simulation.

I am not the most physically capable guy. I'm ok, but there's no way I could go one-on-one with a sammie or physad. Does that mean I cant' play them in SR? In P&P, I can play anything I want, but why should I be restricted ot my real-world abilities in a LARP environment?

just my thoughts...

jonthecelt
langolas
QUOTE (Brahm)
Guns On The Brain is a common condition.


Plus this IS Shadowrun we're talking about here wink.gif
Kaladhan
QUOTE (warrior_allanon)
having now worked through the entire rulebook and also having several years experience playing the 3ed world of darkness: mind's eye theatre LARPs i believe that you can use the MET rules to run a SR game easily. Dont know where you will find one, but i kinda want to start one so i can futz with the vampire wannabe's at game and comic conventions.

First, larpers in my region complain when they have to pay an admittance fee of 5$, so forget forcing them to buy airsoft guns or other similar equipment.

Second, the game would be played mostly indoors in a rented place (such as a bar or university). Forget simulated combat that actually involves buffer weapons or stuff like that.

The rules I'm looking for are similar to White Wolf's MET. No real physical contact allowed. I'm not a fan of MET and I'm looking for alternatives to rock-paper-scissors. It's more in that angle that I'm looking for help.

The way I see the game's dynamics, it could be played twice a month. The first game is the "bar game". Every shadowrunning team meets in their favorite bar. The players have a chance to interact with their contacts, Mr Johnsons and stuff like that. It's also a time for players to exchange information with other runners.

The second game of the month is the actual run. Every team who finds a contract get a special game with a Narrator. This would most likely be around a table, just like table-top gaming.

The game would be roughly 20 players, which would make about 4-5 runner teams (perhaps even some independants). One narrator per team would be needed. I think these numbers are very realistic.

PS: On the record, I'm not saying a sporting larp on making runs would'nt be fun, it could be totally amazing. I just don't think that without a big budget, it would be possible.
Edward
If thatís all you wanted to LARP then you donít need rules. Pcs can talk without restriction, NPCs are available and provide information based soly on the GMs opinion of what will make the game interesting.

Edward
Kaladhan
There is still a need for a system to resolve player conflict. Say a player wants to punch someone. How does he do that? There's still the need for a larp system which doesn't involve tons of d6s.
Ophis
Do it all based on buying successes, if using SR4.
Unsure otherwise and it will be a bit predictable, maybe add somesort of contest mechanic for more variation (ie p/s/st whoever win gets half again as amny successes)
sure the wuss boys decker will always get flattened by the troll, but thats about right for in game.
Arethusa
Use a deck of cards.
KarmaInferno
QUOTE
Next, you need a MILES system and several thousand rounds of blanks. The MILES system is the most important because you can't actually go around shooting each other.


If you could modify the system so those hit would be subject to an electric shock strong enough to incapacitate, that would be even better.

=)


-karma
stevebugge
Anyone given any thought to Rigging, the carchases and all smile.gif
nezumi
Yeah, it sounds like you're not actually LARPing even half of SR. LARPing the legwork isn't a bad idea at all. I'd just find a way to jam the WW system into SR (either convert your SR stats into those 'traits' or whatever they are, perhaps say each level in the skill or every two levels in the skill equals a trait linked to that skill, so 3 in negotiations means 1, 2 or 3 traits depending on how you cut it), then use paper/rock/scissors as per normal rules. Not too much drawing on your character sheet, reasonably random and plenty quick, although it won't help you with combat much (but you're doing that table top anyway).

Really, as has been said, most of the talking part is, well, talking. The conflict resolution system should be simple. Mind's Eye theatre seems quite simple, so the trick is jsut converting SR stats into Mind's Eye stats.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (KarmaInferno)
QUOTE
Next, you need a MILES system and several thousand rounds of blanks. The MILES system is the most important because you can't actually go around shooting each other.


If you could modify the system so those hit would be subject to an electric shock strong enough to incapacitate, that would be even better.

=)


-karma

It'll require a little soldering but it should be possible to rig a taser or a cattleprod to a MILES sensor. It has been done with Xbox controllers.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (stevebugge)
Anyone given any thought to Rigging, the carchases and all smile.gif

Re vehicles: I've seen German troops training with actual vehicles that have MILES gear attached. Vehicles are compatible if you want to go all out.

Re physical limits: I guess that if you totally aren't confident in your ability to win at MILES or kickboxing I can see why you'd want to abstract it. That being said, though, I think the endorphin and adrenaline rush combined with playing Shadowrun if you did take the sporting angle would be pretty frigging amazing.

After the game, when everyone's tired, you could all go out for beers. Alcohol always feels great after exercise.
stevebugge
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
QUOTE (stevebugge @ Mar 22 2006, 03:08 PM)
Anyone given any thought to Rigging, the carchases and all smile.gif

Re vehicles: I've seen German troops training with actual vehicles that have MILES gear attached. Vehicles are compatible if you want to go all out.

Re physical limits: I guess that if you totally aren't confident in your ability to win at MILES or kickboxing I can see why you'd want to abstract it. That being said, though, I think the endorphin and adrenaline rush combined with playing Shadowrun if you did take the sporting angle would be pretty frigging amazing.

After the game, when everyone's tired, you could all go out for beers. Alcohol always feels great after exercise.

I'm sure the MILES gear works just fine for that part of the combat, it's the explaining your insurance claim after a weekend of agressive SR LARP driving to your insurance agent that sounds like it could be interesting grinbig.gif
John Campbell
QUOTE (stevebugge)
I'm sure the MILES gear works just fine for that part of the combat, it's the explaining your insurance claim after a weekend of agressive SR LARP driving to your insurance agent that sounds like it could be interesting grinbig.gif

Hell, that's how I always drive.
Paul
QUOTE (Kaladhan)
hyzmarca... you do realise that larping doesn't include real prop for weapons?

Larping might as well have something cool to it. Sheesh. (Sorry couldn't resist making fun of LARPers.)
The Stainless Steel Rat
QUOTE (Kaladhan)
There is still a need for a system to resolve player conflict. Say a player wants to punch someone. How does he do that? There's still the need for a larp system which doesn't involve tons of d6s.

My advice? Just throw the rules out! They just get in the way of true roleplaying anyway...

My group has been LARPing CreepwoodRun for some time now, and it's been a blast. Be sure to award extra karma to anyone who actually faints or pisses his pants...
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (The Stainless Steel Rat)
QUOTE (Kaladhan)
There is still a need for a system to resolve player conflict. Say a player wants to punch someone. How does he do that? There's still the need for a larp system which doesn't involve tons of d6s.

My advice? Just throw the rules out! They just get in the way of true roleplaying anyway...

My group has been LARPing CreepwoodRun for some time now, and it's been a blast. Be sure to award extra karma to anyone who actually faints or pisses his pants...

I'm so happy that someone besides for me remembers Creepwood! I took his quote out of my sig because I thought people stopped believing in him. frown.gif
hyzmarca
QUOTE (The Stainless Steel Rat)
QUOTE (Kaladhan)
There is still a need for a system to resolve player conflict. Say a player wants to punch someone. How does he do that? There's still the need for a larp system which doesn't involve tons of d6s.

My advice? Just throw the rules out! They just get in the way of true roleplaying anyway...

My group has been LARPing CreepwoodRun for some time now, and it's been a blast. Be sure to award extra karma to anyone who actually faints or pisses his pants...

I recently read an article that espoused the benefits of systemless LARP because your character can do anything that you can do in real life short of raping, killing, or otherwise permenantly damaging your fellow LARPers. I guess that CreepwoodRun LARPs don't have those limitations.
Wounded Ronin
CreepwoodRun (.25 points)

A physad who purchases CreepwoodRun may choose to spend an entire combat turn standing dazed fully upright and out of cover as urine trickles down his leg. He may not use combat pool to dodge or soak any attacks that hit him. Each full combat turn that the physad spends standing dazed, helpless, easy to hit, and urinating awards him an extra karma point for role playing.

It's strongly recommended that a player using an adept with CreepwoodRun bring a small tape recorder to the game of soft, slow gospel music and play it for as long as his character is using the CreepwoodRun power.

If the player bring is an endless loop of the first ten minutes of "Saving Private Ryan" with soft, slow gospel music dubbed over it the GM should consider awarding another karma point for putting in so much effort.
Voran
Directed magic spells that do damage could be beanbags or rocks, which you wing at someone yelling "Lightning Bolt!" "Lightning bolt!" "Lightning bolt!"

Oooh and make sure a few guys are playing as Humanis types, uniform and all. And let them carry AK47s! smile.gif
NightHaunter
I've helped run a V*****E the M********E larp until recently.
We took the MET rules and Spiced in tabletop storyteller stats, for a smoother fit.
Would be surprisingly simple to adapt those rules for shadowrun.
I'll lookinto it and be in touch.

By the way how do you deal with the need for a least half your players to be NPCing at any given time?
Lindt
Thats normal for every larp... isnt it?

After all there is no problem that cant be solved with more NPCs.
NightHaunter
Two groups running alternate weeks.
One group can NPC for the other then viceversa
nick012000
QUOTE (Voran)
Oooh and make sure a few guys are playing as Humanis types, uniform and all. And let them carry AK47s! smile.gif

I'd make sure the local law enforcement agencies know that you're doing this, otherwise you could well get arrested. I do beleive it is illegal forthe KKK to go around with their hoods up nowadays, and given the similarities between humanis goons and KKK goons...
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